Recovery from the occult forum - an explanation

So much ado . . .

as requested some ex-occult members may actually have a place just to blow off some steam and be listened to without being attacked . . . so now to participate you actually have to be a heart surgeon? Can't offer a word of hope and encouragement in Christ and maybe even some prayer without holding a Ph.D.?

Freitag said:

I wonder why though, when with all the other forums are allowed to make their own rules, that we should give that control up to mods. So totally not trying to bait you here, however am trying to understand where other people are comming from

I know the WoF subforum and I think the conservative christian forum has wikified their rules so that only WoF and Conservative christians, may mod, and work rules in their respective forums. I can understand why subforums, would do it that way. It would not be good for a liberal mod, or a mod with a dislike of WoF to be making decisions on reports concerning something they themselves are in oppistion with.

I've seen several people state that us making the rules and us deciding who we wanted to mod was bad, however I do wonder, because it seems that it is ok for other forums to state who they want as mods.

Your reponse appreciated

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If you dont mind my point of view to answer this.

Here are what i see as possible gross concerns. First of all let me say i have nothing at all against an occultist though i dont have much to do with satanists, my earthly father was one. My nephews were seduced into the wiccan religion, I have had lots of experience in dealing with occultists, and i love every one.

On the other hand, and i dont mean this to sound personal, it isnt, I note the glorification or seeming glorification of the occult still in many of Moriah's posts. Others as well, which begs the quesiton are they 'former', and are they 'fit' to help those seeking to be delivered?

Now im not one to point fingers but theres another concern... What if the goal of SOME moderating that forum, isnt at all to help people 'escape' form the occult, but rather they have to goal of discouraging such an escape?

IMHO if this is not 'open' and led by qualified experts it is wrong. I believe the focus is too narrow and the oversight might be one sided and bent on the destruciton of souls in the end, not the salvation of souls.

If this is ever put up for a vote, i vote against it. With all the talk of concensus, i think it would be wise to see exactly what the general concensus really is.

Personally i cant see any of this since the comment i saw saying satanic sonnets are beautiful... if this isnt promotion of the occult i have no idea where You are drawing the line Erwin, could you clear this up?

D'Ann said:

It's a fair question. This forum is different than other forums. This forum not only wants to make their own rules, but they, the members, want to have the power to reject or accept new members from joining their forum. I understand the need to put stipulations as to who should be allowed to post, but in all of these forums, we all can still read through the posts. All members still can post fellowship and respectful posts, they just can't debate. Whereas this forum is completely secret and private and only those who have special access can even view it. This is just not right. How are new members who are struggling in the same way even know where to go to get help with their struggles or support? I really believe that this forum should not be private and that anyone who is struggling in this way should be able to post it without the permission of the older members of said forum. I don't believe that people who are not struggling should be able to debate or post in a hostile way or be disrespectful. The same rules that other support forums have should be applied to this support forum as well...

I also believe that those who moderate this forum should have some kind of credentials that prove that they have the ability to know how to counsel those who are hurting with this struggle. I know that Jesus is the greatest credential that any of us can have... but I would think that this area needs a specialist... Like a trained pastor or priest in this particular spiritual area. A lay person like me could never be much good in helping someone with counseling. I can always pray and share words of comfort and hope, but I have no experience or training in this area...

I guess this has opened up a big can of worms. There is truly a lot to consider.



But once again, those forums are not private or secretive. And we all can post in those forums... providing we abide by the rules that each of those forums have.



Each member does help make the rules for each of their forums... but, what the wiki said is that part of their rules will give them complete control over who even has admittance to it... including the moderators.

Why not have a normal voting process as all of the other forums for their own forum. Or is this what is being suggested in the wiki discussion. It just seems to be sooo exclusive.

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You are right, it is most exclusive, and I dont really like that, but am not sure how to address it properly.

Need to go sleep. Tired and emotional right now, and not thinking straight, however just wanted to take a moment to say thankyou for explaining where you are comming from. When I am a bit more compus mentus, I may not agree with you, however thankyou for taking the time to explain your point of view

Grizzly said:

Christian? Possibly. Delusional? Most likely.

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I take it you have never heard of the brides of satan?

Lisa0315 said:

hmm...There is some precedent in those seeking help setting parameters of what kind of help they receive. From my own personal battle with depression, my therapist was wonderful in that respect.

There are trust issues with these folks. Empowering them to assist in their own recovery is actually, now that I think about it, not such a bad idea.

Now, of course, the problem still is, do we truly have people here who God will qualify? Do we have folks here who only THINK their faith is strong enough to handle it?

What we truly need to do AS A FORUM, is stop complaining and perhaps get behind these folks in prayer.

There are enough people here that we could all sign up to pray for the recovery of these folks as well as those who are helping them. Prayer will enable these folks more than any degrees or experience, in my opinion.

Do WE have the faith to see this through?

Let me see just how many people it would take? There are 12 five minutes in every hour. So that would be 12 times 24 or just 288 committed folks to keep a prayer sent up to Heaven 24 hours a day.

Who is willing to do this with me? I will be happy to organize it.

I admit that I am not equipped to counsel these people, but I can pray for them, and I can pray for the brave Christians who want to try.

Will you stand with me?

I am going to go make a Prayer Chain thread. I will link it up here.

We were posting 100 posts per hour complaining about the forum. Do you think we can each dedicate five minutes of our lives to save these souls?

Lisa

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i would pray

D'Ann said:

Praying:

Our Father Who Art In Heaven
Hallowed Be Thy Name
Thy Kingdom Come
Thy Will Be Done
On Earth As It Is In Heaven
Give Us Today
Our Daily Bread
And Forgive Us Our Trespasses
As We Forgive Those Who Trespass
Against Us
And Lead Us Not Into Temptation
But Deliver Us From Evil
Amen​

I understand the need to minister to those who are struggling with being in an occult. I understand they need our love and compassion and our mercy and our prayers.​

The issue that I have is based on the wiki itself:​

http://foru.ms/t6128006-wiki-beth-shean-city-of-refuge.html​

I do understand that there is a need to reach out to those who are being hurt and tormented by evil. But, leaving it up to the very members who are struggling... instead of the moderators as to who can join their forum and also on what rules the members need to follow...​

It's like the blind leading the blind in a way. I understand that they have been hurt and they desire a safe haven to share their struggles. I know that Moriah has been through so much and that she has been hurt. ​

I just don't know if this is the answer to help her and others who are struggling with the spiritual warfare that they are struggling with.​

I also thought that this new forum was suppose to be transparent... everything out in the open. Why is this subforum having so much exclusion allowance.​

I pray that this all works out for good in Christ...​

God's Peace,​

Debbie​

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It takes a free person to set another free

As the one member of the Pastoral Team who was aware that such had been requested by Support, let me throw out a couple of things...First, the idea "House of Refuge"(to my understanding) was taken from the following Biblical concept:

Joshua 20 - 1 Then the LORD spoke to Joshua, saying, "Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'Designate the cities of refuge, of which I spoke to you through Moses, that the manslayer who kills any person unintentionally, without premeditation, may flee there, and they shall become your refuge from the avenger of blood. 'He shall flee to one of these cities, and shall stand at the entrance of the gate of the city and state his case in the hearing of the elders of that city; and they shall take him into the city to them and give him a place, so that he may dwell among them. 'Now if the avenger of blood pursues him, then they shall not deliver the manslayer into his hand, because he struck his neighbor without premeditation and did not hate him beforehand. 'He shall dwell in that city until he stands before the congregation for judgment, until the death of the one who is high priest in those days. Then the manslayer shall return to his own city and to his own house, to the city from which he fled.'" So they set apart Kedesh in Galilee in the hill country of Naphtali and Shechem in the hill country of Ephraim, and Kiriath-arba (that is, Hebron) in the hill country of Judah. Beyond the Jordan east of Jericho, they designated Bezer in the wilderness on the plain from the tribe of Reuben, and Ramoth in Gilead from the tribe of Gad, and Golan in Bashan from the tribe of Manasseh. These were the appointed cities for all the sons of Israel and for the stranger who sojourns among them, that whoever kills any person unintentionally may flee there, and not die by the hand of the avenger of blood until he stands before the congregation.

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From this principle, for centuries churches became known as "houses of refuge" where those who needed a safe place could go and be protected from their pursuers. In the past, this was even codified into law in many countries. (Anyone who's ever watched Highlander should get the concept of "Holy Ground".) The idea was that those who had sinned, committed a crime, etc. could--rather than face prosecution-- live with, like, and surrounded by, those who had dedicated themselves to God--knowing that in such an evironment, the Gospel could (and usually did) change the person from the inside out.Here on Foru.ms, we have people who are legitimatelly seeking to separate themselves from the occult. Depending on how deeply involved in the occult they have been in the past, some will require quite some time to fully distance themselves from their past behaviors and to "renew their minds with the washing of the water of the Word". This is a process.

Unfortunately, as has already been evidenced by some of the other threads here about this subject, some of the regular membership of Foru.ms... although they may be very well intended... do not understand that the deliverance needed may take awhile. Due to this, they attack what they perceive as the person "promoting the occult", when in fact the person is just trying to find out which end is up.

Others feel they have the right to "minister" to someone else even if the other person doesn't want them to and try to force "ministry" on a person who may not be ready to tackle that particular area yet. These people do not understand that for someone coming out of an environment of control and manipulation that the last thing they need is more "control and manipulation". They need a support group of people who will hold their hand and walk them into the truth of the Gospel one step at a time rather than try to force changes on them.

This is very similar to what is already in existence within the Support Forums for those coming out of different kinds of abuse/behaviors that should not be discussed in the public eye, but in a private, safe area.

No more, No less...

And it is an area that I (and I assume other members of the Pastoral Team) have been asked to monitor to ensure that it is actually doing what it is suppose to do-- to provide a safe place for those seeking to exit the occult to come and get help in doing so.

Lisa0315 said:

We were posting 100 posts per hour complaining about the forum. Do you think we can each dedicate five minutes of our lives to save these souls?

Lisa

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I wish I wasn't repped out!

Okay, I give up.

This is NOT a Christian website.

I give up!!!!

Lisa0315 said:

That is wonderful and the right thing to do.

Lisa

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I had no idea this would create such a (insert word of choice here). This probably wasnt the best way to do it. I've also seen people say that moriah and Iguess by default myself should seek help offline.

Which while it seems easy, in all reality is not. After leaving my former church over a year ago, the abuses totally stuffed with my head I still struggle with the two pictures i have of God in my head. One being a god, a sadistic ogre who toys with the universe for his own amusement. The other view of God, as in the Creator of the universe, the God of the bible.

Churches terrify me, am currently going to a small nondenominational church however this is only been in the last couple of months. Churches scare me, christians terrify me, logically i know that not all and not even many christians are like the group I was involved in however on a much deeper level it scares me that if I open up to a group of christians, then they are some how going do the same thing to me that the other group did.

The best description I can think of its the equivalent of a child being subjected to the most horrible abuse you can think of. The child endures it for years, and finally decided to tell someone because it gets to a point that she can no longer handle the abuse. The child selects a person that they think is safe and starts telling them what has been happening. However the so called safe person instead of doing the right thing and calling in the authorities, begins to subject the child to the same sort of abuse, the child thought they were stopping, by deciding to tell.


Why is this long rambling post necessary? There were anonymous people on this internet message board who consistently showed me a true Picture of Christ. It was through the love and prayers of these people, that I was finally able to darken the doors of a church again. I was in a position of where christians, and churches literally terrifyed me, they still do in many respects and at times, its really tempting to want to want all christians with the same broad brush, however due to the consistency of these people in showing me Christ, loving me and praying for me, was one of the only reasons why I can still say I have a faith in Christ....

Sorry Lisa this reply was sort of sparked by your post, but it has little do with it. Yes, people should be dealing with these sort of things in real life. Trying to find spirit filled bible believing someone who deals with spiritual abuse as a christian, the issues related to having followed an occult path, the issues related to having been a former pro Domme, is almost impossible. and while I realsie that one person probably wont have all those qualifications, however a spirit filled christian, who has the stomach to deal with the darker issues is essential for me.


However sometimes, the only support some people have is online. It shouldnt be that way but it is

This is one of the WORST IDEAS EVER.

If people are needing such serious help dealing with getting over being involved in the occult, then a private forum dedicated to rehashing and dwelling on the past is hardly going to be beneficial. Honestly, the internet is a TERRIBLE place to work out such problems. I see it as being a worse option than doing nothing. They need to meet people in the flesh, face to face, and not at the end of a screen. They need the Church, not the internet. If I may also be even more bold in saying so, secrecy and esoteric pursuits is part of what likely caused many of them problems in the first place. This private forum just amounts as an excuse to fall back to old patterns.

You'd serve these people better referring them to a church. They're more than welcome to go and ask any Orthodox believer around here for help finding a parish in their area. Any of us would be more than happy to help in this manner and to pray for people if asked. Once again, the internet is one of the worst places to deal with sensitive issues.

Freitag said:

You are right, it is most exclusive, and I dont really like that, but am not sure how to address it properly.

Need to go sleep. Tired and emotional right now, and not thinking straight, however just wanted to take a moment to say thankyou for explaining where you are comming from. When I am a bit more compus mentus, I may not agree with you, however thankyou for taking the time to explain your point of view

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I think we all are probably a little emotional... on many various levels... for various different reasons.

I pray that you have a sound and peaceful sleep.

God's Peace to You and Yours,

Debbie

bill16652 said:

It takes a free person to set another free

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Free in Christ, with love and prayers. Amen

Seashale, I'm sorry, but many people have experienced abuse at the hands of a church and no longer trust churches, and likewise, trusting people has become very hard. I'm not saying this applies to your church, but many people who profess to be Christians are far from Christ-like towards members or former members of the occult, and that is exactly why this forum was created - to serve as a place of refuge.

Sylvanspirits said:

Seashale, I'm sorry, but many people have experienced abuse at the hands of a church and no longer trust churches, and likewise, trusting people has become very hard. I'm not saying this applies to your church, but many people who profess to be Christians are far from Christ-like towards members or former members of the occult, and that is exactly why this forum was created - to serve as a place of refuge.

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This just proves how different Orthodoxy is from Western Christianity then. We don't believe that we are saved apart from the Church. The Church is the saving ark. The Church should be the ONLY place a Christian finds refuge.

ould be dealing with these sort of things in real life. Trying to find spirit filled bible believing someone who deals with spiritual abuse as a christian, the issues related to having followed an occult path, the issues related to having been a former pro Domme, is almost impossible. and while I realsie that one person probably wont have all those qualifications, however a spirit filled christian, who has the stomach to deal with the darker issues is essential for me.
I agree with this and wish you success in dealing with it but I still feel that you need real people around you to help as well. Is there noone that you can trust that you know in your area? I will be praying for you

Agreeing to pray for all of these things.

It's the MOST powerful thing I can do.

http://foru.ms/t6144702-special-prayer-chain-sign-up.html#post39062344

If you would pray for five minutes every day for these folks, please sign up here. No one but you and God will know if you keep this commitment or not. I am simply providing some organization for it.

Edit: If any Staff member would post this and sticky it in their forum, it would be appreciated. We are looking for 288 Prayer Warriors.


Lisa

Letalis said:

Maybe the Pastoral team needs to be given jurisdiction over the forum, in order to ensure it's purpose is being fulfilled.

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excellent suggestion

I don't care if they have their forum, and I hope they get some support and some help. I just have one question and two suggestions.

Question:

If the forum is invisible on the home page and no one can join it unless they are white-listed, how is anyone who needs this kind of help but doesn't scour the Support forums for controversial threads ever going to find that forum to receive the help they need?

Suggestion #1:

Pastoral staff seems like not only the obvious choice for over-sight, but a necessary one. A recovery and support forum of this nature should absolutely receive guidance from the pastors of the site.

Suggestion #2:

If forums can be coded to be restrictive, as they apparently can, the Married Couples Only forum should be coded so that if you are a guest or not wearing marriage icons, you cannot view those posts, and then people should lay off with the complaints about what is being discussed there.