Recovery from the occult forum - an explanation

[Sylvanspirits]

It sure seems like more folks than Moriah are to be involved, that is my concern.

My faith in Christ was not damaged or shattered due to PMs with her, and doubt that a forum would have any different effect.

 

[Lisa0315]

Is this a forum for ONE person. If so, fine.

It sure seems like more folks than Moriah are to be involved, that is my concern.

Moriah does not need to share her story here. I do hope she gets help.

No, there will be others who are allowed in whom Moriah trusts. In the future, there may be others who are having similar problems who may be helped there as well. While I realize that it does not clear up everything, I was very encouraged by the fact that she did reject membership to a known practicing Satanist. That says that she is truly seeking help, at least to me, it does.

As for your other concern, is there anyone here who is truly qualified? I don't know. One thing that goes through my mind though, Steve. God doesn't choose the qualified, but qualifies those He chooses. I think I am just going to put my faith in the Lord on this one.

Lisa

 

[Grizzly]

Is someone who has romantic sex with Satan and demons a Christian?

Christian? Possibly. Delusional? Most likely.

 

[Lisa0315]

Christian? Possibly. Delusional? Most likely.

...but then, you think we are all a bit self-deluded, true?

Lisa

 

[Fish and Bread]

Giving anyone who claims to be possessed by a demon control of the rules and membership of any forum is a bad idea. Let's consider three scenarios:

1. If she is in fact possessed, you're giving over control of a forum to a person possessed by a demon.
2. If she is not possessed and thinks she is, you're giving over control a forum to a person with intense psychological delusions who thinks she is possessed by an evil spirit and capable of anything.
3. If she is not possessed and knows she's not but says she is, you're giving over control of a forum to someone who is lying, probably to mess with us.

Apart from the specific individual given control, there are other issues here. I don't think it's wise for an Internet web site to be getting involved in dealing with the occult. Seriously, leave it to the professionals. These folks are in need of a priest or a doctor, not a bunch of amateur Internet religious commentators who post to message forums as a hobby.

It is hubris to assume we're qualified to deal with this sort of thing. If folks need help recovering from something like this, they should see a priest, a psychologist, a real-life supervised support group -- maybe all of the above. We're going to make things worse rather than better more often than not with this sort of concept.

Moreover, it's inevitably going to attract folks trying to draw people into the occult and so forth. I'm not always sure what I think about religion and Christianity, and heaven and hell, and so forth; but I can tell you this: If demons are out there and possessing people and this poster is what she claims, I would highly suspect Erwin was tricked into creating this forum for the demon's own ends. What do demons and Satan do in scripture? They lie and manipulate good people to bad ends. Something to consider.

It's best for the site as a whole just to stay away from this stuff. It's not a mission for an Internet site.

 

[drstevej]

What kind of therapy allows the person needing help to direct the counseling environment?

Would you accept surgery from personnel with equivalent training. Maybe piercing an ear but not heart surgery

And this is heart surgery.

 

[D'Ann]

Praying:

Our Father Who Art In Heaven
Hallowed Be Thy Name
Thy Kingdom Come
Thy Will Be Done
On Earth As It Is In Heaven
Give Us Today
Our Daily Bread
And Forgive Us Our Trespasses
As We Forgive Those Who Trespass
Against Us
And Lead Us Not Into Temptation
But Deliver Us From Evil
Amen

I understand the need to minister to those who are struggling with being in an occult. I understand they need our love and compassion and our mercy and our prayers.

The issue that I have is based on the wiki itself:

http://foru.ms/t6128006-wiki-beth-shean-city-of-refuge.html

From related discussions (linked to at the bottom of the page), we are looking to create a private forum, such as the current Site Supporter forum, that can only be accessed by the forum members. Forum members must first be approved by one of the forum moderators (who will be chosen by the members)and proposal for their joining must not meet with any substantial objections from already existing members.

Effective immediately, the following members are listed as the "founding client members" of this subforum for any and all quorum-related purposes: Freitag, Moriah_Conquering_Wind, Vespasia.

Article 1: Restricted Access
This forum will be restricted to the following members:

• Christian ex-occultists from one or more bona fide occult traditions ("Client" member)
• those presently under demonic influence, oppression or inhabitation, who have a history with one or more bona fide occult traditions, who demonstrate openness to Christ or that they are actively seeking Christ, and therefore seek Christian input on, or solutions for, their situation ("Client" member)
• Staff from Recovery and Ministry and Omega Team who feel able to cope with the subject matter. ("Staff" member)
• Others deemed "friendly", supportive AND "safe" to the members whom this subforum is intended to serve and who profess and follow Christ ("Support Friend" member)

1.a. No one with a repeated history of manifest hostility, harshness or abrasiveness toward, distrust, defamation, slander, character attacks upon, or harassment of, subforum "client" members will be admitted.
​

1.b. "Support Friends" shall be admitted upon the suggestion of the member requesting and the absence of any substantial objection to their presence. Please be judicious in issuing invitations and only select those who have demonstrated a consistent viable presence of supportiveness for you (to avoid cluttering the forum). A probation period should take place in BSA to determine if this is in the best interest of all involved. It is recommended that friend members should demonstrate a vibrant Christian prayer life.
​

1.c. Potential new members of "client" and "support friend" classes will be considered for admission only if doing so does not meet with any substantial and serious objections from existing members.
​

Article 2: Subject Matter Interpretation and Freedom of Expression:

2.a. Posts in this subforum discussing personal experiences of Satan, demons, or occult shall NOT be construed to be "promoting" the same. Members shall have freedom to discuss openly their personal experiences, feelings, thoughts, opinions, perceptions and genuine theological doubts and questions in this SAFE atmosphere without fear of incurring judgment and nastiness from others.
​

2.b. Members should clearly indicate if posts express personal experiences, feelings, thoughts, opinions, perceptions and genuine theological doubts and questions given the potential difficulties that this media of communication can cause.
​

2.c. When in doubt, members may request clarifications from one another as to meanings of posts. Request for clarification shall defer to the member so clarifying as the final authority on the true meaning of his or her words and expressions.
​

2.d. No seeking to silence, stifle or "muzzle" others on the basis of personal triggers. Members choosing to participate in this sub forum do so understanding that each is individually responsible for himself or herself, and that subject matter may indeed be "triggering". It is up to individual members to seek private counsel with staff or other support and make use of coping resources if they are being triggered including, but not limited to, taking hiatus from the sub forum. It is NOT acceptable to "muzzle" or "silence" other members of the sub forum on the basis of "I'm being triggered" and members joining this sub forum agree to this by asking to join.

2.e. No deliberate "button hammering" or repetitive triggering. Likewise, members agree that when someone notes something to be a trigger, sore spot, "button" being pushed, etc. that this boundary will be respected and members will not "flaunt" or otherwise repetitively reference said thing "in the face of" the person for whom it creates involuntarily reactionary difficulties.

2.f. Spiritual abuse is something that has been likened by many as the equivalent of spiritual rape. It is important for mod staff and members to understand that a person who has been spiritually abused may have a very distorted picture of God and His actual nature. Being told to pray, and forgive the person/group and move on. is totally not helpful. While there is truth in this, it is important to realise that people who have been spiritually abused need room to process the feelings of shame, guilt, embarassment anger, sadness instead of being given what can often be seen as trite platitudes. Forgiveness is a critical part of the healing process however it is something that the person must reach for themselves.
​

I do understand that there is a need to reach out to those who are being hurt and tormented by evil. But, leaving it up to the very members who are struggling... instead of the moderators as to who can join their forum and also on what rules the members need to follow...

It's like the blind leading the blind in a way. I understand that they have been hurt and they desire a safe haven to share their struggles. I know that Moriah has been through so much and that she has been hurt.

I just don't know if this is the answer to help her and others who are struggling with the spiritual warfare that they are struggling with.

I also thought that this new forum was suppose to be transparent... everything out in the open. Why is this subforum having so much exclusion allowance.

I pray that this all works out for good in Christ...

God's Peace,

Debbie​

 

[D'Ann]

The very fact that a practicing Satanist was turned away by Moriah herself gives evidence that it truly is a recovery forum.

That fact alone swayed me to be more positive about the forum's existence.

Lisa

I respectfully disagree.

 

[GraceInHim]

I respectfully disagree.

I disagree also.

this is really troubling

 

[Tenebrae]

The very fact that a practicing Satanist was turned away by Moriah herself gives evidence that it truly is a recovery forum.

That fact alone swayed me to be more positive about the forum's existence.

Lisa

It was a group concensus. Moriah is one of three who are making the decisions. This has not been set up with the sole purpose or aiding moriah, and it is much hoped that this will be able to help other people who may come across foru in the future with the same sort of issues.

Non christians will not now, or ever be given access.

 

[Lisa0315]

It was a group concensus.

Non christians will not now, or ever be given access.

That is wonderful and the right thing to do.

Lisa

 

[Grizzly]

...but then, you think we are all a bit self-deluded, true?

Lisa

LOL.

Not really Some people have rational reasons for believing in God. I just don't agree with those reasons. But if someone came up to be and said that they truly believe they were having sex with Satan or a demon, I think I would worry about their mental health.

 

[D'Ann]

These scriptures come to mind. I post them with respect and love... what I'm seeing here, seems to contradict the very Word of God that I have always tried my best to stand on...

Matthew 15:10-20 10 And he called the people to him and said to them, "Hear and understand: 11 not what goes into the mouth defiles a man, but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man." 12 Then the disciples came and said to him, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?" 13 He answered, "Every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. 14 Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit." 15 But Peter said to him, "Explain the parable to us." 16 And he said, "Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and so passes on? 18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a man. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

Luke 6:39 -

39 He also told them a parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?

Galatians 5:13-26 13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love be servants of one another. 14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 15 But if you bite and devour one another take heed that you are not consumed by one another. 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you would. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. 26 Let us have no self-conceit, no provoking of one another, no envy of one another.

Ephesians 5:6-20

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not associate with them, 8 for once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), 10 and try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of the things that they do in secret; 13 but when anything is exposed by the light it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light. 14 Therefore it is said, "Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light." 15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, 16 making the most of the time, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart, 20 always and for everything giving thanks in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father.

 

[Tenebrae]

Praying:

Our Father Who Art In Heaven
Hallowed Be Thy Name
Thy Kingdom Come
Thy Will Be Done
On Earth As It Is In Heaven
Give Us Today
Our Daily Bread
And Forgive Us Our Trespasses
As We Forgive Those Who Trespass
Against Us
And Lead Us Not Into Temptation
But Deliver Us From Evil
Amen

I understand the need to minister to those who are struggling with being in an occult. I understand they need our love and compassion and our mercy and our prayers.

The issue that I have is based on the wiki itself:

http://foru.ms/t6128006-wiki-beth-shean-city-of-refuge.html





I do understand that there is a need to reach out to those who are being hurt and tormented by evil. But, leaving it up to the very members who are struggling... instead of the moderators as to who can join their forum and also on what rules the members need to follow...

It's like the blind leading the blind in a way. I understand that they have been hurt and they desire a safe haven to share their struggles. I know that Moriah has been through so much and that she has been hurt.

I just don't know if this is the answer to help her and others who are struggling with the spiritual warfare that they are struggling with.

I also thought that this new forum was suppose to be transparent... everything out in the open. Why is this subforum having so much exclusion allowance.

I pray that this all works out for good in Christ...

God's Peace,

Debbie​

I wonder why though, when with all the other forums are allowed to make their own rules, that we should give that control up to mods. So totally not trying to bait you here, however am trying to understand where other people are comming from

I know the WoF subforum and I think the conservative christian forum has wikified their rules so that only WoF and Conservative christians, may mod, and work rules in their respective forums. I can understand why subforums, would do it that way. It would not be good for a liberal mod, or a mod with a dislike of WoF to be making decisions on reports concerning something they themselves are in oppistion with.

I've seen several people state that us making the rules and us deciding who we wanted to mod was bad, however I do wonder, because it seems that it is ok for other forums to state who they want as mods.

Your reponse appreciated

 

[D'Ann]

I disagree also.

this is really troubling

Yes, it is. I want to help people... with the love of Christ... without causing them hurt or being critical...

I just believe that there must be a better way to meet the needs of those who are struggling in this way.

I'm praying for Jesus to help us all through this time.

 

[Lisa0315]

hmm...There is some precedent in those seeking help setting parameters of what kind of help they receive. From my own personal battle with depression, my therapist was wonderful in that respect.

There are trust issues with these folks. Empowering them to assist in their own recovery is actually, now that I think about it, not such a bad idea.

Now, of course, the problem still is, do we truly have people here who God will qualify? Do we have folks here who only THINK their faith is strong enough to handle it?

What we truly need to do AS A FORUM, is stop complaining and perhaps get behind these folks in prayer.

There are enough people here that we could all sign up to pray for the recovery of these folks as well as those who are helping them. Prayer will enable these folks more than any degrees or experience, in my opinion.

Do WE have the faith to see this through?

Let me see just how many people it would take? There are 12 five minutes in every hour. So that would be 12 times 24 or just 288 committed folks to keep a prayer sent up to Heaven 24 hours a day.

Who is willing to do this with me? I will be happy to organize it.

I admit that I am not equipped to counsel these people, but I can pray for them, and I can pray for the brave Christians who want to try.

Will you stand with me?

I am going to go make a Prayer Chain thread. I will link it up here.

We were posting 100 posts per hour complaining about the forum. Do you think we can each dedicate five minutes of our lives to save these souls?

Lisa

 

[D'Ann]

I wonder why though, when with all the other forums are allowed to make their own rules, that we should give that control up to mods. So totally not trying to bait you here, however am trying to understand where other people are comming from

It's a fair question. This forum is different than other forums. This forum not only wants to make their own rules, but they, the members, want to have the power to reject or accept new members from joining their forum. I understand the need to put stipulations as to who should be allowed to post, but in all of these forums, we all can still read through the posts. All members still can post fellowship and respectful posts, they just can't debate. Whereas this forum is completely secret and private and only those who have special access can even view it. This is just not right. How are new members who are struggling in the same way even know where to go to get help with their struggles or support? I really believe that this forum should not be private and that anyone who is struggling in this way should be able to post it without the permission of the older members of said forum. I don't believe that people who are not struggling should be able to debate or post in a hostile way or be disrespectful. The same rules that other support forums have should be applied to this support forum as well...

I also believe that those who moderate this forum should have some kind of credentials that prove that they have the ability to know how to counsel those who are hurting with this struggle. I know that Jesus is the greatest credential that any of us can have... but I would think that this area needs a specialist... Like a trained pastor or priest in this particular spiritual area. A lay person like me could never be much good in helping someone with counseling. I can always pray and share words of comfort and hope, but I have no experience or training in this area...

I guess this has opened up a big can of worms. There is truly a lot to consider.

I know the WoF subforum and I think the conservative christian forum has wikified their rules so that only WoF and Conservative christians, may mod, and work rules in their respective forums. I can understand why subforums, would do it that way. It would not be good for a liberal mod, or a mod with a dislike of WoF to be making decisions on reports concerning something they themselves are in oppistion with.

But once again, those forums are not private or secretive. And we all can post in those forums... providing we abide by the rules that each of those forums have.

I've seen several people state that us making the rules and us deciding who we wanted to mod was bad, however I do wonder, because it seems that it is ok for other forums to state who they want as mods.

Your reponse appreciated

Each member does help make the rules for each of their forums... but, what the wiki said is that part of their rules will give them complete control over who even has admittance to it... including the moderators.

Why not have a normal voting process as all of the other forums for their own forum. Or is this what is being suggested in the wiki discussion. It just seems to be sooo exclusive.

 

[EbonNelumbo]

My 0.02.

So many people have ranted and raved due to some people posting things. Things which are DIRECTLY tied into this new forum. So a solution is made. A solution which solidifies the unconditional love that Christians should bestow on even the satanists, as well as those recovery, and a solution which will allow those who don't want to see such posts, not have to.

Yet it's still not good enough? Why? Doesn't this solve the problem? Is it not helping these people who struggle with things which are of the exact amplitude to any other sin which nailed Jesus to His cross? One sin is not worse than another to Christ. They are equal. In this society, of course there are differences. But this isn't about the society, this is about a forum, one which people incessantly proclaim to be Christian, yet when a solution is made and carried into action which permits those struggling with an occult past to be reached out to, to have refuge, it's ripped apart.

People here don't know everyone who's been in the occult. They don't know the satanists. They know a few who struggle with demons more openly, yet even still, they don't know the people underneath. Have any of these people tried to extend love, not tough love or biblical "here's a scripture as to why you're going to hell" love, but an actual hand extended in love? So few. There are some, but so few overall.

The demons which the people in the City of Refuge struggle with aren't worse than what most Christians struggle with, they're just different. Ask someone who is an alcoholic what kind of demons they have. Ask someone who is depressed. Or who smokes. Or anything else. The demons of the past perhaps? We all have pasts. These issues, demons, satan, they aren't worse than any of ours.

Cast the first stone, but make sure you stare at Jesus while you're throwing it. That isn't just for this thread, so please don't think it's directed at any one person, it's a lesson in generalization which is applicable to life.

 

[Auntie]

Praying:

Our Father Who Art In Heaven
Hallowed Be Thy Name
Thy Kingdom Come
Thy Will Be Done
On Earth As It Is In Heaven
Give Us Today
Our Daily Bread
And Forgive Us Our Trespasses
As We Forgive Those Who Trespass
Against Us
And Lead Us Not Into Temptation
But Deliver Us From Evil
Amen

AMEN.

 

[GraceInHim]

nm