LDS Recording Angels

[Of the Kingdom]

How about the first part Dale quoted, starting with:

From the fact that records are kept in heaven (such as the Book of Life), we deduce that there must necessarily be recording angels;

From the wording change in the final sentence, I would expect the whole paragraph to de-emphasize the idea of recording angels.

 

[Rescued One]

Correction: The 1966 quote hasn't been posted. Maybe Dale can do that. My 1966 version is buried in a room full of books.Okay. I found my copy. Check back in say 40 minutes.

 

[Rescued One]

Both editions of Mormon Doctrine, Recording Angels, are identical. I don't recall them ever being mentioned in all my years as a Mormon. Mormon Doctrine and Doctrines of Salvation are not scripture. Do you want me to verify if McConkie accurately quoted Doctrines of Salvation? I've never seen any inaccuracies in his book.

 

[Of the Kingdom]

All we need is the 1979 version; Dale already posted the whole passage from (I assume) the 1966 version. I do appreciate your help in clarifying it. I was going crazy trying to find and cite the original of the final sentence when I first posted. It turns out that wasn't important, since it's the way McConkie used it that mattered.

By the way, yes I do know that Joseph F. Smith, aka Joseph Fielding Smith, was a later church president and a descendant of the founder Joseph Smith. I'm glad you made that clear for others who might not know.

 

[Rescued One]

THE TRUE GUARDIAN ANGEL. We have often heard of guardian angels attending us and many patriarchs have spoken of such protection. There are times no doubt when some unseen power directs us and leads us from harm. However, the true guardian angel given to every man who comes into the world is the Light of Truth or Spirit of Christ.
Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 54

That doesn't make sense in light of:

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

 

[mmksparbud]

THE TRUE GUARDIAN ANGEL. We have often heard of guardian angels attending us and many patriarchs have spoken of such protection. There are times no doubt when some unseen power directs us and leads us from harm. However, the true guardian angel given to every man who comes into the world is the Light of Truth or Spirit of Christ.
Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 54

That doesn't make sense in light of:

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Mat_18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Peter1000]

All we need is the 1979 version; Dale already posted the whole passage from (I assume) the 1966 version. I do appreciate your help in clarifying it. I was going crazy trying to find and cite the original of the final sentence when I first posted. It turns out that wasn't important, since it's the way McConkie used it that mattered.

By the way, yes I do know that Joseph F. Smith, aka Joseph Fielding Smith, was a later church president and a descendant of the founder Joseph Smith. I'm glad you made that clear for others who might not know.

Just for your information: Joseph F Smith was the son of Hyrum Smith, the brother of JS.
Joseph Fielding Smith was the son of Joseph F. Smith.

So Joseph F. Smith and Joseph Fielding Smith are not descendants of JS, but of his brother Hyram Smith.

 

[Peter1000]

THE TRUE GUARDIAN ANGEL. We have often heard of guardian angels attending us and many patriarchs have spoken of such protection. There are times no doubt when some unseen power directs us and leads us from harm. However, the true guardian angel given to every man who comes into the world is the Light of Truth or Spirit of Christ.
Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 54

That doesn't make sense in light of:

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

It only makes sense when you understand that all men are born with the "light of Christ", but many lose that light through neglect and the power of satan to deflect them from the true light.

 

[Rescued One]

All we need is the 1979 version; Dale already posted the whole passage from (I assume) the 1966 version. I do appreciate your help in clarifying it. I was going crazy trying to find and cite the original of the final sentence when I first posted. It turns out that wasn't important, since it's the way McConkie used it that mattered.

By the way, yes I do know that Joseph F. Smith, aka Joseph Fielding Smith, was a later church president and a descendant of the founder Joseph Smith. I'm glad you made that clear for others who might not know.

Correction: Joseph Fielding Smith(1876-1972) was the son of Joseph F. Smith(1838-1918) and a descendant of Joseph Smith's brother Hyrum.

 

[Of the Kingdom]

Correction: Joseph Fielding Smith(1876-1972) was the son of Joseph F. Smith(1838-1918) and a descendant of Joseph Smith's brother Hyrum.

Thanks, Peter1000 and Phoebe Ann for pointing this out. I thought there was only one Joseph F. Smith; since there's two, I will have to be more careful when I cite things.

Now I don't know which Joseph F. McConkie quoted, although it probably doesn't matter for this thread. In any case, the question raised by the OP seems to have been forgotten. Whatever McConkie once believed was substantially reworded by 1979.

 

[Rescued One]

Thanks, Peter1000 and Phoebe Ann for pointing this out. I thought there was only one Joseph F. Smith; since there's two, I will have to be more careful when I cite things.

Now I don't know which Joseph F. McConkie quoted, although it probably doesn't matter for this thread. In any case, the question raised by the OP seems to have been forgotten. Whatever McConkie once believed was substantially reworded by 1979.

I'm confused by your sentence about Joseph F. McConkie. We weren't talking about him at all. Joseph F. Smith is always referred to as Joseph F. Smith. His son is always referred to as Joseph Fielding Smith. That is how they aren't confused with one another. The information on Recording Angels is identical in both the 1966 and 1979 editions of Mormon Doctrine.

 

[Deus Vult!]

"From the fact that records are kept in heaven (such as the Book of Life), we deduce that there must necessarily be recording angels; that is, some ministering servants must be assigned there to keep the records. Knowing what we do of the importance of record keeping, and knowing that our affairs in this life have been formulated in accordance with a heavenly pattern, we can suppose that many records are kept by those beyond the veil. This view, however, cannot rationally be extended (as it is among some sectarians) to the point of supposing that every word of mortals is recorded. No angel is assigned to follow every person around and keep a record of his every utterance. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 54.)"
Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, under Recording Angels, p. 440.


One is reminded of the Islamic belief in recording angels. According to Mohammed, everyone has two angels following them around, one recording good deeds and the other recording bad deeds. Even though McConkie denies that every word is recorded, we can only wonder if Joseph Smith was influenced by the Islamic view.

A greater problem for Christians is that McConkie's claim that no angel records "every utterance" contradicts Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew.

36 [Jesus says, ] "But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” --Matthew 12: 36-37 NIV

Jesus does tell us that every word is known and remembered by God. He says nothing about recording angels being necessary to this process.

No idea what your question or point is.

 

[Dale]

No idea what your question or point is.

The author of Mormon Doctrine, a Mormon Apostle, says there are Recording Angels for each of us. At the same time, he puts limits on what they record. That implies that much of what we say in casual conversation isn't recorded and that information won't be available at the Final Judgment. I believe this contradicts the Gospel.

I am wondering if Mormons believe what McConkie says about Recording Angels.

 

[Rescued One]

The author of Mormon Doctrine, a Mormon Apostle, says there are Recording Angels for each of us. At the same time, he puts limits on what they record. That implies that much of what we say in casual conversation isn't recorded and that information won't be available at the Final Judgment. I believe this contradicts the Gospel.

I am wondering if Mormons believe what McConkie says about Recording Angels.

No, he assumes there are record keepers (because records are so important to Mormons). "No angel is assigned to follow every person around.and keep a record of his every utterance." This quote is from Doctrines of Salvation, by his father-in-law, Joseph Fielding Smith.

McConkie married Amelia Smith, daughter of Joseph Fielding Smith.
Bruce R. McConkie - Wikipedia

Each ward in the church has a ward clerk who keeps records on earth.

Do you have another source for your information on recording angels?

I suggest you finish reading the page on Recording Angels in Mormon Doctrine; it is informative.

 

[He is the way]

God knows all things:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 88:41)

41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.