Reconciling Flat Earthers with Spherical Earthers.

Freeman Servant · Jan 22, 2024

There is no argument that the level of water is flat, and that is why it's called a horizon.

What is called horizon?

The horizon is the line that separates the Earth from the sky. There two main types of horizons—Earth-sky horizons and celestial horizons. Both Earth-sky and celestial horizons have different sub-types of horizons. The local horizon, geographic horizon, and sea-level horizon are all Earth-sky horizons. Synonyms of horizon: Firmament.

Many Blessings.

Lost4words · Jan 22, 2024

Freeman Servant said:
Read Genesis 1:6-9:
6 ¶ Again God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.

7 Then God made the firmament, and separated the waters, which were [m]under the firmament, from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament, Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 ¶ God said again, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

We live in a created environment with waters above and below. The firmament is the place of stars (heavenly bodies), planets (wandering stars - Greek translation), and the luminaries sun and moon to give light which was created on the fourth day (after the earth was dry, Genesis 16-17:

16 God then made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made also the stars.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven, to shine upon the earth,

18 And to rule in the day, and in the night, and to separate the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

I don't argue with the Word; I embrace that God the Father's ways are deep and strive to accept that which is and mold myself into His image- Genesis 1:27. Each of us is at the center of His creation, and within us is the capacity to reach the mind of Christ

1 Cor 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he might instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ".

Many Blessings.

Interpretation, interpretation, interpretation..

Freeman Servant · Jan 22, 2024

Job 33:6 said:
I think that because people interpret the Bible as a scientifically accurate textbook, the church should engage these topics to inform their audience why, for example, 1 Samuel 2:8 states that earth rests on pillars. And similar verses.

Churches should be able to say, "hey, earth doesn't actually rest on pillars".

prodromos · Jan 22, 2024

Freeman Servant said:
There is no argument that the level of water is flat, and that is why it's called a horizon.

Not true. The curvature is not discernable over short distances but the water surface curves with the shape of the earth. You can confirm this by looking at the horizon from different elevations, using a water level to determine your eye level. The higher the elevation, the further the horizon drops below eye level, because the earth is curving down away from you.

If the earth was flat, then the horizon would always be at eye level regardless of your elevation due to perspective.

Freeman Servant · Jan 22, 2024

Job 9:5-7
5 He removeth the mountains, and they feel not when he overthroweth them in his wrath.
6 He removeth the earth out of her place, that the pillars thereof do shake.
7 He commandeth the Sun, and it riseth not: he closeth up the stars, as under a signet.

In my humble opinion, the church should be there for the benefit of coming to single-mindedness in the Lord and flat earth is non-sequitur for that endeavor. Having either view is not a disqualifier as I look at it as a side issue to salvation. What gets me going is that the whole world is evil, and most will not let go of experts telling others what to think and do instead of relying on the Holy Spirit and observable data. I believe in the inherent authority of the Word, and if it says the sun stayed in place for several hours without moving, it happened.

Joshuah 10:12-13
"On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel: "O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on [2] its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar."

There are many examples of natural phenomena that worldly "science" can't explain, and as a student of history, I can attest that history is the lie of the victor to fit a current narrative.

The word Government in Latin is Guber-Mentis (Mind Control),
GOVERNMENT MEANS “TO CONTROL THE MIND” The word Government actually means mind control. It is etymologically originated from the ancient Latin language. It Splits into two words:1) (guvernare) meaning “to control” and 2) (mens or mentis) meaning “mind”. SO GOVERNMENT MEANS “TO CONTROL THE MIND”

and NASA in Hebrew is "Deceive".
The KJV translates Strong's H5377 in the following manner: deceive (12x), greatly (1x), beguiled me (1x), seize (1x), utterly (1x).

This is why Jesus was clear that we need to give Him All our minds and thoughts, Luke 10:27, and not be deceived by the adversary who comes to steal, kill, and destroy by influencing our minds.

Revelation 20:7-10
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the people, which are in the four quarters of the earth: even Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the Sea.
9 And they went up into the plain of the earth, and they compassed the tents of the Saints about, and the beloved city: but [s]fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them, was cast into a lake of fire and brimstone, where that beast and that false prophet are, and shall be tormented even day and night for evermore.

No matter what the world says, or the shape of the earth, I'm sure Jesus knows better and will guide me in His way.

Many Blessings

Freeman Servant · Jan 22, 2024

prodromos said:
Not true. The curvature is not discernable over short distances but the water surface curves with the shape of the earth. You can confirm this by looking at the horizon from different elevations, using a water level to determine your eye level. The higher the elevation, the further the horizon drops below eye level, because the earth is curving down away from you.

Rob Skeba did many experiments, and as a Christian brother, I regard his evidence as credible.
I submit that at 125 miles the earth is not curved. From my current home, I can see that distance and a mountain range in Canada (I'm in Washington State), and according to curvature calculators on the web and Google Earth, I should not be able to see them as they would be several thousands of feet below the horizon. The earth is His to command.

Genesis 2:4 "...that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,"
Matthew 11:25 "At that time Jesus answered and said, I give thee thanks, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise, and men of understanding, and hast opened them unto babes."

1 Tim 6: 20 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed unto thee, and avoid profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called,"

Many Blessings

prodromos · Jan 23, 2024

Freeman Servant said:
Rob Skeba did many experiments, and as a Christian brother, I regard his evidence as credible.

I am a Christian, yet you reject the evidence I put forth. Why is my evidence not credible?

I remember one of Rob's videos where he demonstrated the sun appearing to set as it moved further away when viewed through the bottom half of a Fresnel lens. Only problem is that refraction by the atmosphere bends light in the opposite direction. He took the concept from another video on atmospheric refraction but used the wrong half of the lens. So I don't consider Rob particularly credible.

prodromos · Jan 23, 2024

Freeman Servant said:
I submit that at 125 miles the earth is not curved. From my current home, I can see that distance and a mountain range in Canada (I'm in Washington State), and according to curvature calculators on the web and Google Earth, I should not be able to see them as they would be several thousands of feet below the horizon.

Which direction are you looking? From what elevation?
How do you know you are looking at a mountain range in Canada? What are the identifying features?

You live near Mt Rainier. Surely you have seen photos of Mt Rainier casting shadow on the underside of clouds which is impossible on a flat earth. You may have even witnessed it yourself. This can only occur because the earth is a globe.

Michael Snow · Jan 23, 2024

Lost4words said:
Interpretation, interpretation, interpretation..

FIRST, comes Translation. "Firmament" is a misleading translation.
Latin firmamentum (a firm object), used in the Vulgate (4th century).[3] This in turn is a calque of the Greek στερέωμᾰ (steréōma), also meaning a solid or firm structure (Greek στερεός = rigid), which appears in the Septuagint, the Greek translation made by Jewish scholars around 200 BC

The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament [TWOT], s.v. raqa, makes an important correction regarding this translation: "In pre-Christian Egypt, confusion was introduced into biblical cosmology when the LXX [Septuagint], perhaps under the influence of Alexandrian theories of a 'stone vault' of heaven, rendered raqia by stereoma suggesting some firm, solid substance."

These words all translate the Biblical Hebrew word rāqīaʿ (רָקִ֫יעַ‎), used for example in Genesis 1.6, where it is contrasted with shamayim (שָׁמַיִם‎), translated as "heaven(s)" in Genesis 1.1. Rāqīaʿ derives from the root rqʿ (רָקַע‎), meaning "stamp, spread out, stretch." "The basic concept in raqa is stamping, as with the foot, and what results, i.e. a spreading out or stretching forth." TWOT.[4]

Isaiah 40:22 "...Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain [like gauze]"
"It is a tent canopy thin as gossamer, which he has stretched out as a shelter for his people"--Oswalt, Isaiah, NICOT

linux.poet · Jan 23, 2024

There is no reconciliation.

Job 26: 7-10 said:
He stretches out the north over empty space;
He hangs the earth on nothing.
He binds up the water in His thick clouds,
Yet the clouds are not broken under it.
He covers the face of His throne,
And spreads His cloud over it. The pillars of heaven tremble,
And are astonished at His rebuke.
He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters,
At the boundary of light and darkness.

The Scripture is clear: the Earth is round. Flat-Earthers are believing doctrine that is contrary to the Word of God.

oikonomia · Jan 23, 2024

d taylor said:
-

The church should be telling people how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life (salvation), which is a simple message. Belief/faith in Jesus, but yet many fail at this simple straight forward message.

So until churches can do the simple correct, they should not delve into more complicated Biblical subjects/topics.

You are right about the gospel preaching. But then once the gift is received there should be examples
in the church to testify, lead, manifest, and teach how to LIVE by this gift of life.

This is the healthy teaching Paul spoke of. And this is that which heard and received from the beginning which John spoke of.

Some should show we are possessors of the gift because God has a purpose to build something.

[God] Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before the times of the ages (2 Tim. 1:9)

Whatever the shape of the planet, God had a purpose for man in Christ Jesus before time and space.
So we ought not be distracted as the church off to what is not essential to His eternal purpose.
Am I right?

Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love,
Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, (Eph. 1:4,5)

The Triune God predestinated those in Christ Jesus for a good pleasure in His heart before the foundation of the world.
Whatever the shape of the universe is or of our planet we ought not let this sidetrack us from His good pleasure.
He desires Christ the Son be the Firstborn among many brothers conformed to His image.

One more verse please. I know I tend to be verbose with lengthy posts. One more.

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers;

And those whom He predestinated, these He also called; and those whom He called, these He also justified; and those whom He justified, these He also glorified. (Rom. 8:28-30)

Even the shape of the earth, whatever it may be is for His purpose.
Whatever the shape of the earth we were foreknown, predestinated, called, justified, and glorified for this eternal purpose of our
Father. How we should be on guard that nothing distract us from the proceding of this process.

Whatever the nature of the material universe its Creator is now our Father to make us as far as is possible
a corporate expression of His Son that Jesus Christ would be the Firstborn among many brothers.

The earth's shape whatever it may be, even that too is with a view to God accomlpishing His eternal purpose.

Freeman Servant · Jan 23, 2024

Please, forgive me for any strife I may have fostered.
James 3:16.
Many blessings for you on your walk in wisdom and peace.
Marc

TPop · Jan 23, 2024

Freeman Servant said:
Read Genesis 1:6-9:
6 ¶ Again God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.

7 Then God made the firmament, and separated the waters, which were [m]under the firmament, from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament, Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 ¶ God said again, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

We live in a created environment with waters above and below. The firmament is the place of stars (heavenly bodies), planets (wandering stars - Greek translation), and the luminaries sun and moon to give light which was created on the fourth day (after the earth was dry, Genesis 16-17:

16 God then made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made also the stars.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven, to shine upon the earth,

18 And to rule in the day, and in the night, and to separate the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

I don't argue with the Word; I embrace that God the Father's ways are deep and strive to accept that which is and mold myself into His image- Genesis 1:27. Each of us is at the center of His creation, and within us is the capacity to reach the mind of Christ

1 Cor 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he might instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ".

Many Blessings.

I simply asked if the others were also flat. If you believe the earth is flat, given what scripture provides, can you not simply state your belief on whether the Sun, Moon, stars, and planets are also flat?

Peace and Blessings

d taylor · Jan 23, 2024

TPop said:
I simply asked if the others were also flat. If you believe the earth is flat, given what scripture provides, can you not simply state your belief on whether the Sun, Moon, stars, and planets are also flat?

Peace and Blessings

-

I will, i believe the sun and moon to be circular convex disk that face down toward the earth. That as The Bible states, were created to give light to the earth.

Note, earth meaning in The Bible, simply means land/ground, unless context shows otherwise. But earth never means a water covered floating sphere in The Bible.

Lost4words · Jan 23, 2024

d taylor said:
-

I will, i believe the sun and moon to be circular convex disk that face down toward the earth. That as The Bible states, were created to give light to the earth.

Note, earth meaning in The Bible, simply means land/ground, unless context shows otherwise. But earth never means a water covered floating sphere in The Bible.

Thats 'YOUR' unique interpretation of scripture!

prodromos · Jan 23, 2024

Freeman Servant said:
Please, forgive me for any strife I may have fostered.
James 3:16.
Many blessings for you on your walk in wisdom and peace.
Marc

If by "strife" you mean calling the credibility of the Christian faith into question, then simply repent of your errors and stop assuming God's creation is understood by your flawed interpretation of Scripture.

Tropical Wilds · Jan 23, 2024

d taylor said:
-

I will, i believe the sun and moon to be circular convex disk that face down toward the earth. That as The Bible states, were created to give light to the earth.

Note, earth meaning in The Bible, simply means land/ground, unless context shows otherwise. But earth never means a water covered floating sphere in The Bible.

Wait, what?

MForbes · Jan 23, 2024

Tropical Wilds said:
Wait, what?

It’s another rabbit hole TW…..I wouldn’t go there with d taylor.

TPop · Jan 24, 2024

d taylor said:
-

I will, i believe the sun and moon to be circular convex disk that face down toward the earth. That as The Bible states, were created to give light to the earth.

Note, earth meaning in The Bible, simply means land/ground, unless context shows otherwise. But earth never means a water covered floating sphere in The Bible.

[Gen 1:1 KJV] 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[Gen 1:2 KJV] 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
...[Gen 1:6 KJV] 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

The earth was formless and void. Made with the Heaven. The Waters were not yet divided. It appears that water covered the whole earth, in H2o, mist, and rain.

The earth is held in place by the Word.

Peace and Blessings

Angeldove97 · Jan 24, 2024

Freeman Servant said:
When I go Home to be with Jesus He will set me straight as to the earth's shape. When He told me the universe was in me, John 14:20, that was plenty to chew on for a lifetime—many Blessings.

I strongly disagree with your understanding of science, but I agree with you that Creation-focused topics have no bearing on your salvation directly. Believing in A doesn't mean you can't believe in B and the other way around. However, I would continue to question where you are getting your "information", respectfully of course.

Reconciling Flat Earthers with Spherical Earthers.

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