- Nov 5, 2011
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Hmmm. Are you sure? Are you really sure?
Yes I am sure. They lost everything and gained nothing that helped them.
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Hmmm. Are you sure? Are you really sure?
Well, I'm not so sure. I think they came to know the truth, the reality of death and sin and suffering. They wanted to know as the gods know and well, now they do know the whole truth.Yes I am sure. They lost everything and gained nothing that helped them.
Well, I'm not so sure. I think they came to know the truth, the reality of death and sin and suffering. They wanted to know as the gods know and well, now they do know the whole truth.
They went out of the security of some cozy paradise and into the big booming, buzzing, real world, where there is pain and suffering.How did that benefit them? They lost life and home and everything...Adam had to sweat in labor til he died, eve a virtual slave to Adam, more pain in childbirth....they went to hell basically, and died there.
There is nothing good in knowing "the whole truth".
Reminds me of the whole, "If I tell you I gotta kill you." thing....knowledge killed them. They were idiots.
They went out of the security of some cozy paradise and into the big booming, buzzing, real world, where there is pain and suffering.
But it says they became like one of us, it also said they could no longer eat from the tree of life.
Not quite...
Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever...
This verse says they had the ability to eat from the tree....although you are somewhat correct, they couldn't eat because they were removed from the tree.
So you are saying that humans evolved according to science under the creative guidance of God IE God created the framework of evolution as a method for allowing life to adapt to their environment. You are saying that Adam and Eve were amount about 2000 other homo sapiens that existed at that time. They were chosen by God and ensouled and we are all decedents of them. So were the other 1998 homo sapiens who existed at that time who may have been around before Adam and Eve part of that covenant and also ensouled. As they are not decedents of Adam and Eve they would not be directly associated with them or the covenant. They surely would have produced their own lines of decent according to evolution.After a great deal of contemplation regarding the relationship of the science of evolutionary biology and population genetics with sacred scripture, and specifically the universal descent of man from Adam and Eve, I've formulated a "theory" of how these may relate. It is essentially a Covenantal Theory of Adam and Eve. I admit it is mere speculation, but I think it effectively bridges the apparent gap between evolutionary biology/genetics and sacred scripture.
1. Throughout biblical history, God deals with man by way of successive covenants.
2. God entered into covenant relationship with Adam and Eve.
3. Population genetics reveals to a high degree of probability that the population of homo sapien sapiens has not at any time dropped below aproximately two thousand individuals.
4. The bible clearly affirms the historicity of two individual humans from whom originate all modern humans.
5. Essential Christian doctrines, such as the universality of human fallenness, necessitate the historicity of this aforementioned original pair.
So what are we to make of these five points? I would argue that the answer is to be found by way of covenant.
The basics of the theory are as follows.
1. All life on earth, including human biology, has evolved by the decree and creative guiding providence of God as per the theory of evolutionary creationism.
2. As described by population genetics, there was in fact an original population pool of anatomically modern homo sapien sapiens likely to exceed two thousand individuals.
3. These "humans" though anatomically modern, were not in fact originally ensouled.
4. God in his providence elected two homo sapien sapiens, male and female, to be heirs of a divine covenant of works.
5. God sealed this covenant by way of the mystery of ensoulment, wherein he, in supernatural power, bestowed a soul upon this covenantal pair, thereby enabling the spiritual bond and freedom of will necessary to the relational essence of the covenant.
6. All modern humans are the genetic progency of this original covenantal pair, and are thereby heirs of this original covenant, whereby we inherit ensoulment, moral responsibility, as well as fallenness consequent the original violation of the covenant.
So basically, human anatomy evolved like all other life does. Yet all modern humans are descended from two elect homo-sapiens with whom God entered into a covenant, which he sealed by means of ensoulment. So Adam and Eve were two real individuals, from whom we all descend, AND we can embrace the scientific record of human evolution.
I agree, I think the concept of sin and redemption is what is important. It is hard to know the literal truth of what is meant by the Genesis story. What we do know is that it was written in a time that was different to us. They didn't have the awareness we have of the world for example. So they may have thought the world was just where they lived. So their perception would have been different and therefore affected the meanings and descriptions of many things and affected the ways they wrote about what was happening. I am sure if I get the concept of creation wrong in its details that this won't cause me to be condemned from God.Most churches I have gone to have taught that Genesis 1-2 emphasize an allegorical interpretation, without dismissing an historical one altogether. The bottom line is, I'm neither a theistic evolutionist or a creationist. I simply don't think it matters to Christian faith either way, I don't need to believe Adam sinned to know I am a sinner.
So then, where is all this evidence for evolution then?It's a great idea!
- It solves all related theological problems.
- It is fully consistent with the evidence from God's creation, found using science.
- It affirms and supports scripture, especially Genesis.
- It makes sense.
Also - it's not new. This is what I was taught in Christian School 30 years ago, and it's supported and taught by many denominations.
Despite that, it does seem to often be unknown to many Christians, especially creationists.
In Christ Jesus-
Papias
So you are saying that humans evolved according to science under the creative guidance of God .... You are saying that Adam and Eve were amount about 2000 other homo sapiens that existed at that time. They were chosen by God and ensouled and we are all decedents of them.
... So were the other 1998 homo sapiens who existed at that time who may have been around before Adam and Eve part of that covenant and also ensouled ?
... They surely would have produced their own lines of decent according to evolution.
As far as theistic evolution is concerned I think its important to get to know a bit about whether evolution is true in the first place rather than just accepting it because its the consensus.
You have to remember that there are humans behind science and they are susceptible to having a skewed view of things as well.
There are many scientists who are questioning the tenets of Darwin's theory as time has gone by through new discoveries.
In other words what may look like a self creating blind process needed the hand of God and is actually a preset method that was intended for how life lives on planet earth.
So then, where is all this evidence for evolution then?
How can a Christian choose to subscribe to naturalistic models?
I suggest you watch this video for the apparently absent perspective:
I was brought up with that.You can learn some of that evidence in any university or high school biology class.
No, there is only proof of micro-evolution, not of DNA writing itself into specialized species.There are tons of whole lines of evidence, from many different fields, which all confirm evolution.
No, falsehoods by evolutionists.That video simply repeats the same distortions, falsehoods, and mistakes repeated by creationists for decades.
Yes i do seriously think they are new to you, otherwise you wouldn't just regurgitate fallacious naturalistic apologetics based on fallacious evidence.Do you seriously think that they are new to me, that I have seen (and corrected) each of them many times over the years?
What does that even mean when Jesus lied about this according to you?In Jesus' name-
Yes, that Adam and Eve were members of much larger, interbreeding population. In fact, 2,000 is probably too small. At least many thousands very similar transitional ape/humans.
It would be interesting to see how evolution reconciles having an exterior made entirely of white light - the necessity of such a phenomenon, the energy considerations and biological "advantage" it provides. Adam and Eve had this when they were perfect (and naked, but couldnt see their bodies because of this raiment.) Christ had this. And, those of us who are blessed in the future with also have this "clothing" of real light radiating from our bodies. Why have we lost that? Do we believe in the transfiguration within evolution? Resurrection?
If that were true the Paul could not have said sin and death was a result of one man.