Reconciled Unto God, NOT Predestinated

[Hammster]

You need to look at the definition of the word “prognosis”. I know you know what gnosis means. What does omnipresence mean? It means even future events He’s already been there, done that. God exists in all time simultaneously. Omniscience means He’s all knowing and can’t learn anything. He already knew everything from the very beginning, He doesn’t have to stop & think about it.

There’s nothing wrong with it because the elect were chosen according to His foreknowledge.

If they are chosen for what they will do, then there’s no actual choice. Election is meaningless. It would be like the Brits voting for King Charles.

 

[atpollard]

Ephesians 1:11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his own will. This scripture applies to all believers, 1 Peter 1:4. Not just Calvinist.

*** Silliest Refutation Ever Award ***

• Calvinist Argument: "All believers are PREDESTINED for salvation"
• Proof Text Offered: "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his own will." - Ephesians 1:11
• Anti-Calvinist Refutation: "This scripture applies to all believers. Not just Calvinist."

1 Peter 1:4

1 Peter 1:1-5 [NKJV]

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
​

Chosen by God, made obedient by God, cleansed by God, and kept by God ... nothing Calvinistic in there.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If they are chosen for what they will do, then there’s no actual choice. Election is meaningless. It would be like the Brits voting for King Charles.

Sure there’s a choice you just said “if they are CHOSEN according to what they do”. If someone was CHOSEN according to what they do then a CHOICE was made. The CHOICE was between those whom God foresaw would abide in Christ as opposed to those who would not. Your definition of election is meaningless. When people elect a president it’s typically because of his character and values, how is that any different from God’s electrion?

 

[Hammster]

Sure there’s a choice you just said “if they are CHOSEN according to what they do”. If someone was CHOSEN according to what they do then a CHOICE was made. The CHOICE was between those whom God foresaw would abide in Christ as opposed to those who would not. Your definition of election is meaningless. When people elect a president it’s typically because of his character and values, how is that any different from God’s electrion?

Ah, now it’s clear. God chooses good people in your theology.

 

[atpollard]

Ah, now it’s clear. God chooses good people in your theology.

Let me know if you find one ... I would like to meet them.
[Mark 10:18]

 

[ViaCrucis]

We have been predestined in Christ to be reconciled to God.

God doesn't sit around waiting for us to come to Him in our own weakness and sin. He proactively meets us in the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Bobber]

Would God be just if everyone was condemned to hell?

You're going off the rails and changing the subject. What I said was true. You would not approve a legal system in the natural that had people being judged for something they weren't capable of doing. If the law of the land was everyone must jump 20 feet in the air and had no possible hope of doing so you would call that unjust. You have no problem however saying God can put a demand on another with no hope of them doing it. Calvinists aren't consistent to what they truly know and believe would be just.

 

[Hammster]

You're going off the rails and changing the subject. What I said was true. You would not approve a legal system in the natural that had people being judged for something they weren't capable of doing. If the law of the land was everyone must jump 20 feet in the air and had no possible hope of doing so you would call that unjust. You have no problem however saying God can put a demand on another with no hope of them doing it. Calvinists aren't consistent to what they truly know and believe would be just.

That was a long way to go to avoid answering the question.

The answer is, yes. Everyone is a sinner, and so everyone deserves hell. That’s Justice.

 

[atpollard]

You're going off the rails and changing the subject. What I said was true. You would not approve a legal system in the natural that had people being judged for something they weren't capable of doing. If the law of the land was everyone must jump 20 feet in the air and had no possible hope of doing so you would call that unjust. You have no problem however saying God can put a demand on another with no hope of them doing it. Calvinists aren't consistent to what they truly know and believe would be just.

It is probably a 'knit pick' on my part, but "Calvinists" do not share a "HIVE MIND" with everyone thinking alike. We just all affirm the 5 points of T.U.L.I.P. to be Biblical Truth. Beyond that, personal opinions on WHY diverge widely.

Some HYPER-CALVINISTS (at one extreme) believe that God with equal and identical action creates some people to be saved and some people to be damned and God actively guides each to their assigned destiny ... rendering evangelism pointless since God will save whom He will save without us. That is generally viewed as unbiblical and a view held by VERY VERY few.

Most CALVINISTS hold some form of tension between God actively DRAWS SOME to salvation and God simply "does nothing" to the rest ... leaving them in their sin. Scripture affirms the FACTS of this without offering much of an explanation of WHY. Therefore there are almost as many personal speculations on the details as there are people that bother to speculate.

For my personal "opinion" (worth nothing), I lean towards

• Genesis 3:8 [NKJV] "And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden."
• John 3:19-20 [NKJV] "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed."
• Romans 1:18-21 [NKJV] "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
• Romans 3:10-11 [NKJV] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God."

Anyone CAN hear the Gospel and come, but NOBODY is WILLING TO DO SO. Everyone runs AWAY FROM God to HIDE our sin rather than TOWARDS God to have our sin FORGIVEN. That is on US, not on HIM.

Unwilling to allow ALL to perish (as is man's free choice), God CHOSE to FORE-LOVE SOME and save them in spite of our unwillingness:

• John 6:44-45 [NKJV] "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me."
• John 10:26-31 [NKJV] "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one." Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
• Ephesians 1:3-6 [NKJV] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
• Ephesians 2:4-10 [NKJV] But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[Gr8Grace]

If one believes that they have been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, they will reject the Calvinist doctrine of predestination. It is not possible to believe both doctrines. Why would one believe that they have been predestinated by God and then believe that they have been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ?

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says anyone has been predestinated to salvation by God. The word "Predestination" only appears in the Bible about 4 times, while words like "faith" and "believe" appear hundreds of times.

Scriptures that Calvinist use to try and prove predestination.

Ephesians 1:4. According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.
God chose all of humanity in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world. Jesus is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17.

Ephesians 1:5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ.
All Christians are adopted into Jesus Christ when they first believe.

Ephesians 1:11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his own will. This scripture applies to all believers, 1 Peter 1:4. Not just Calvinist.

Romans 8:29. For whom he did foreknow, he also predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son. All believers are being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. It is the Holy Spirit working in their lives, Ephesians 2:10.

Romans 8:30. Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified. We are all called to come to Christ. The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ. Not just some.

There is no scripture there or in the Bible that says God predestinates some to heaven and others to hell.

Who are the elect?

The elect are those that have elected (chosen) to believe in Jesus for their salvation by their own free will.

Jesus has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God, no predestination needed.

"And all things are of God, who has reconciled us and the world unto to himself by Jesus Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

How does Jesus reconcile us and the world unto God? Jesus, as God's new Adam and our representative has fulfilled all of the demands of God's Holy Law. Having fulfilled the law, he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus has atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole word, 1 John 2:2. We now stand in God's Holy Court as perfect and complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

He has reconciled the whole world to Himself. He tore the veil. All can come to Him.

Predestination is really simple if we understand His Grace. It is His predesigned plan of everything He has prepared for the believer when they accept Christ.

 

[Gr8Grace]

That was a long way to go to avoid answering the question.

The answer is, yes. Everyone is a sinner, and so everyone deserves hell. That’s Justice.

I agree. BUT......HE reconciled the world to Himself. Tore the veil.....So that ALL can come to Him.
Acts 16:31. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.....

 

[Hammster]

I agree. BUT......HE reconciled the world to Himself. Tore the veil.....So that ALL can come to Him.
Acts 16:31. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.....

He’s reconciling the world to Himself. It’s in the process of happening.

 

[Gr8Grace]

He’s reconciling the world to Himself. It’s in the process of happening.

WAS reconciling the world to Himself......

 

[Hammster]

Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
— 2 Corinthians 5:18-19

Still happening.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
— 2 Corinthians 5:18-19

Still happening.

They have "some of the word of reconciliation?" No. They have it ALL. God HAS reconciled the world to Himself. ALL who believe shall be saved. Pretty basic concept in Christianity.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Salvation is equal opportunity, equal privilege for anyone who has ever lived.......Hence the no boasting. Acts16:31.

He HAS reconciled the WHOLE world. He tore the veil, now anyone can come to Him and accept His FREE gift.

 

[Hammster]

They have "some of the word of reconciliation?" No. They have it ALL. God HAS reconciled the world to Himself. ALL who believe shall be saved. Pretty basic concept in Christianity.

No, the world hasn’t been reconciled. Yet. That’s why we have a job. The purpose of the Great Commission is to bring about the reconciliation.

 

[Hammster]

Salvation is equal opportunity, equal privilege for anyone who has ever lived.......Hence the no boasting. Acts16:31.

He HAS reconciled the WHOLE world. He tore the veil, now anyone can come to Him and accept His FREE gift.

That’s not reconciliation. The whole world is not acceptable to God.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That’s not reconciliation. The whole world is not acceptable to God.

If it was then there would be universal salvation - a situation clearly rejected by the Bible.

 

[RobertPate]

That’s not reconciliation. The whole world is not acceptable to God.

You don't understand the Gospel.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and now sits in heaven as... "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

The scripture says that Jesus has reconciled us and THE WHOLE WORLD unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

The question now is, will you trust and believe in him as your savior and be reconciled unto God?