Reconciled to God while enemies !

setst777 · Feb 18, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
Believers is right, but they were chosen before they were believers, even from the beginning of time. They became believers following the Sanctifying work of the Spirit. Believing/Faith is a product of Sanctification of the Spirit

The Passage states that God chose, from the beginning, to save "you" - those who believe. The Passage does not say that God chose, from the beginning, to give faith to some so they can be saved.

If I go out to buy a Jeep Renegade, I have already determined from the beginning that I will only purchase a silver color Renegade, even if none currently exist in that color. That does not mean that I already painted the Renegade silver before purchasing it; rather, the Renegade of itself was the color I desired from the beginning to purchase.

So too, the same language applies. God did not make anyone believe from the beginning so he could save them; rather, from the beginning, God chose to save "YOU," which are those who believe. And that is what the Scriptures teach.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (WEB) For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.

Romans 5:1-2 (WEB) Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Brightfame52 · Feb 18, 2024

zoidar said:
What we have to ask is when, how and for what reason God chose these men and women to be saved? Saying God chose them, doesn't say much if we don't answer the other questions.

I don't have to ask, I already know

Brightfame52 · Feb 18, 2024

setst777 said:
The Passage states that God chose, from the beginning, to save "you" - those who believe. The Passage does not say that God chose, from the beginning, to give faith to some so they can be saved.

If I go out to buy a Jeep Renegade, I have already determined from the beginning that I will only purchase a silver color Renegade, even if none currently exist in that color. That does not mean that I already painted the Renegade silver before purchasing it; rather, the Renegade of itself was the color I desired from the beginning to purchase.

So too, the same language applies. God did not make anyone believe from the beginning so he could save them; rather, from the beginning, God chose to save "YOU," which are those who believe. And that is what the Scriptures teach.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (WEB) For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.

Romans 5:1-2 (WEB) Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Lol they were chosen before they became believers

setst777 · Feb 18, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
Lol they were chosen before they became believers

The Scriptures were given, and their context. You object. Go your own way, as you always have.

Brightfame52 · Feb 19, 2024

setst777 said:
The Scriptures were given, and their context. You object. Go your own way, as you always have.

2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

What order you see here ? I see chosen from the beginning, then called by the Gospel afterwards

Thats what Im going by

BBAS 64 · Feb 20, 2024

setst777 said:
I have long considered what your contention is.

God chose "us" Christians in him (Christ) before the foundation of the world.

These verses do not say anything about God choosing to give faith to some by regeneration from before the foundation of the world; rather, the Passage plainly states that God chose or elected "us" - the faithful in Christ - to be in him before the foundation of the world. God's plan, before the foundation of the world, was and is to save those who believe in His Son (John 3:16).

Question: Who are the “us” who are blessed with every spiritual blessing in Christ (vs. 3)?
Answer: “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1; Hebrews 6:11-12).

Question: Who are the “us” God choose to be in Christ before the foundation of the world (vs. 4)?
Answer: “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1; John 3:14-18).

Question: Who are the “us” who are predestined for adoption as children according to his good pleasure (vs. 5)?
Answer: “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Eph 1:1; Gal 3:26; 1 Cor 1:21).

Question: Who are the “us” whom God freely gives favor in the Beloved (vs. 6)?
Answer: “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1).

Question: Who are the “we” and “our” who are redeemed by his blood, and receive forgiveness (vs. 7)?
Answer: “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1; John 3:14-18).

Question: Who are “us” whom God makes known the mystery of his will, good pleasure, and purpose (vs. 9)?
Answer: “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1; 1 Corinthians 2:10).

Question: Who are the “we” who are assigned an inheritance with Christ, and in him (vs. 11)?
Answer: “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1; Hebrews 6:11-12).

Question: Who are the ones who have been foreordained according to His purpose and will (vs. 11)?
Answer: “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1).

Question: Who are the “we” who are to the praise of his glory? (vs. 12)
Answer: “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1), who are also the “we” who had before hoped in Christ, having believed (Ephesians 1:13).

Question: Who are the “you” who were sealed with the Holy Spirit as our seal and guarantee (vs. 13-14)?
Answer: The “you” who receive the Spirit as a guarantee are those who believed (Ephesians 1:13-14).

In the last question and answer, notice that the Spirit will only indwell and seal a person who has first believed. Regeneration (life in the Spirit) is by the Spirit indwelling a person, and the Spirit only indwells a person who first believes. See: John 7:37-39; Romans 8:10-11.

Good day, Sets

Ehp 1:1- 16 is one big long "sentence" and the pronouns remain consistent.

The ones who were chosen in Christ are the same ones who are adopted, granted Faith, redeemed, and regenerated are the saints agreed.

Only those in Christ have these Blessings:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,

He chose us to be in Crist before the foundation of the world, that is the start.

In Him,

Bill

zoidar · Feb 20, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
I don't have to ask, I already know

BBAS 64 said:
Good day, Sets

Ehp 1:1- 16 is one big long "sentence" and the pronouns remain consistent.

The ones who were chosen in Christ are the same ones who are adopted, granted Faith, redeemed, and regenerated are the saints agreed.

Only those in Christ have these Blessings:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,

He chose us to be in Crist before the foundation of the world, that is the start.

In Him,

Bill

I'll take the opportunity to ask you two the same question. HOW did God choose us in Christ before the foundation of the world?

BBAS 64 · Feb 20, 2024

zoidar said:
I'll take the opportunity to ask you two the same question. HOW did God choose us in Christ before the foundation of the world?

Good day, Zoidar

I do not believe the text tells us how... again it is that (time) element.

In my experience ( time bound) Col1:12, 13 God qualified me to share in an inheritance and transferred me for the domain of Darkness, in to the kingdom of His Son.

Not sure that answers the question as God is out side of time, but it is the best I can do.

In Him,

Bill

Brightfame52 · Feb 20, 2024

zoidar said:
I'll take the opportunity to ask you two the same question. HOW did God choose us in Christ before the foundation of the world?

By His Own Sovereign Will and Purpose, and its not everyone He chose in Christ, Just His Church, His Body/Seed

setst777 · Feb 20, 2024

BBAS 64 said:
Good day, Sets

Ehp 1:1- 16 is one big long "sentence" and the pronouns remain consistent.

The ones who were chosen in Christ are the same ones who are adopted, granted Faith, redeemed, and regenerated are the saints agreed.

Only those in Christ have these Blessings:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,

He chose us to be in Crist before the foundation of the world, that is the start.

In Him,

Bill

Bill, the pronouns are consistently pointing “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1). All the blessings and promises listed in "Ephesians 1:1-16" are “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1).

Nothing in "Ephesians 1:1-16" teaches anything about God giving them faith so they can be saved. Yes, the Scriptures teach that God grants Jews as well as Gentiles the privilege to believe in Lord Jesus to be saved; and so, the Gospel Call to both Jews and Gentiles is that they should believe in Lord Jesus to be saved. That is God's plan from the beginning.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (WEB) For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.

Romans 5:1-2 (WEB) Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Lord Jesus paid for redemption of all, but only the faithful are redeemed and regenerated.

setst777 · Feb 20, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

What order you see here ? I see chosen from the beginning, then called by the Gospel afterwards

Thats what Im going by

How does "2 Thessalonians 2:13-14" teach that God chose, from the beginning, to give us faith to be saved???

Brightfame52 · Feb 20, 2024

setst777 said:
How does "2 Thessalonians 2:13-14" teach that God chose, from the beginning, to give us faith to be saved???

Cant you read ?

Brightfame52 · Feb 20, 2024

setst777 said:
Bill, the pronouns are consistently pointing “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1). All the blessings and promises listed in "Ephesians 1:1-16" are “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1).

Nothing in "Ephesians 1:1-16" teaches anything about God giving them faith so they can be saved. Yes, the Scriptures teach that God grants Jews as well as Gentiles the privilege to believe in Lord Jesus to be saved; and so, the Gospel Call to both Jews and Gentiles is that they should believe in Lord Jesus to be saved. That is God's plan from the beginning.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (WEB) For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.

Romans 5:1-2 (WEB) Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Lord Jesus paid for redemption of all, but only the faithful are redeemed and regenerated.

Gods election causes them to be the Faithful, Election before the foundation comes before one being faithful duh

setst777 · Feb 20, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
Cant you read ?

No need to be nasty. Yes, I clearly can read the Passage. My question to you is: Why are you quoting it?

How does "2 Thessalonians 2:13-14" teach that God chose, from the beginning, to give us faith to be saved???

setst777 · Feb 20, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
Gods election causes them to be the Faithful, Election before the foundation comes before one being faithful duh

I know that is what you believe, but you will not find one Scripture stating that. I choose to believe what God actually revealed in His Word rather than what man tries to force onto the Scriptures.

setst777 · Feb 20, 2024

Aaron112 said:
After reading only two posts , your posts, in this forum,
not making anything of anything else - just investigating at this point;
Trying this color out , fwiw. A collector 'saves' only silver Jeep Renegades. Period.
Any other color is either rejected, scrapped, 'condemned',
or .....
redeemed - miraculously (big miracle, not like repaint or something small potatoes).
Other Jeep Renegades, and other models , 'want' , or 'desire' , to be in The Collector's Collection.
But there is nothing those other Jeep Renegades can do to become a part of the Collector's Collection. ..... nothing, ..... nada ..... zip ...... zero chance .....
So they start a club of 'other', pretending to be Silver Jeep Renegades. Pretending to be in the Jeep Renegade's Collector's Collection of Real Silver Jeep Renegades.
Since the pretenders are not the Collector's, the pretenders will and do and continue to say anything to anyone without regard to reality. Actors in this world, pretending about anything and everything in their own minds, in delusion, without knowing truth. They continue always believing in their own minds (computer control?) that they are "in" the Collector's Collection of True Silver Jeep Renegades.
Right up to , after passing from this life, right up to /until/ Judgment is Declared.
They never were in the Collector's Collection, no, not even a little bit.
But everything they said or did or were or thought
was as if they were in the Collector's Collection, to no avail. In vain.

Exactly! You got it. Good description. In the same way as you described, God only elects to save the people who believe in His Son. While other humans believe they are saved by their own doctrines and beliefs, God elects to save only those who put their faith in His Son. Those who do not believe in His Son remain condemned.

John 3:14-18 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Brightfame52 · Feb 20, 2024

setst777 said:
No need to be nasty. Yes, I clearly can read the Passage. My question to you is: Why are you quoting it?

How does "2 Thessalonians 2:13-14" teach that God chose, from the beginning, to give us faith to be saved???

Read it, I dont know what else to tell you

Brightfame52 · Feb 20, 2024

setst777 said:
I know that is what you believe, but you will not find one Scripture stating that. I choose to believe what God actually revealed in His Word rather than what man tries to force onto the Scriptures.

You wont find one scripture denying it.

setst777 · Feb 20, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
Read it, I dont know what else to tell you

So, you were the moderator of a Calvinist Board who deleted one of my posts because, in another unrelated post, I did not explain the Passages I quoted; yet, you refuse to explain how "2 Thessalonians 2:13-14" teaches that God chose, from the beginning, to give us faith to be saved.

setst777 · Feb 20, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
You wont find one scripture denying it.

The entire Bible denies it. God saves those who believe is written all through the Scriptures from beginning to end.

Reconciled to God while enemies !

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Contributor

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Contributor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency