Recommendation for everyone who whants the truth!

[Crusadar]

I highly recommend that each of you (if you are a creationist or evolutionist) talk to God about the creation of the earth (if you want to know the truth).

If you have a real relationship with God then I guarantee that God will show you the truth.

Been there done that, and God said that evolution is a myth.

 

[wblastyn]

Been there done that, and God said that evolution is a myth.

Please, anyone can say "God told me so". Since God left in His creation the evidence for evolution we can safely say that it wasn't God who told you evolution is a myth, in fact, I think you probably made that up. Tut tut tut claiming God said something when he never, shame on you.

 

[Crusadar]

My, my, my, still defending the lie of evolution with much fervent aren't we blasty! Get a life man, a born again life that is. God left no such evidence for evolution, what He left was His word so that we may know beyond doubt that it was He who created just as He has revealed to us. There is no shame in believing in what God says, there is however much shame in making scripture conform to what man says.

 

[Larry]

Anyone who literally hears God's voice, needs to check in to a mental ward....quick.

God does not audibly speak to me. God speaks to my heart. The Spirit guides me in all things spiritual and moral, through prayer and suplication. Studying His word verifies for me what He has put on my heart.

 

[Bushido216]

My, my, my, still defending the lie of evolution with much fervent aren't we blasty! Get a life man, a born again life that is. God left no such evidence for evolution, what He left was His word so that we may know beyond doubt that it was He who created just as He has revealed to us. There is no shame in believing in what God says, there is however much shame in making scripture conform to what man says.

So... if evolution is a big made-up lie... then God's creation should reflect that, right?

Then why does God's creation reflect an evolutionary world?

 

[Larry]

1:
I understand the this the Christian Only Forum.
Christians all belive that there is one God, and that God created the universe. However all Christians don't agree on how God created the universe. That is the reason why I posted this thread. If we all ask God to show us the truth then we will not longer dissagree on these types of things.

Right.

Christians don't agree on how God created the universe. Your error is in that you think that those who don't agree with how YOU believe God created the universe, don't pray. That is the height of arrogance and self-righteouness.

2:
Can you back this up?
why don't you goto the link at the bottom of the post and take a look at some verses that have the word pray in them.
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?SearchType=AND&language=english&version=NIV&searchpage=0&search=pray

Tell you what. Don't do any more studying at school, and sleep during all your classes. When it's time for exams, just pray for the right answers. See how that pans out for you.

I know what prayer is. I've been a Christian, and praying, for longer than you have been alive.

 

[Micaiah]

John 9

A Man Born Blind Receives Sight

The Man Born Blind
1 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2And His disciples asked Him, saying, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. 4I[1] must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. 5As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world."
6When He had said these things, He spat on the ground and made clay with the saliva; and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay. 7And He said to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam" (which is translated, Sent). So he went and washed, and came back seeing.
8Therefore the neighbors and those who previously had seen that he was blind[2] said, "Is not this he who sat and begged?"
9Some said, "This is he." Others said, "He is like him."[3]
He said, "I am he."
10Therefore they said to him, "How were your eyes opened?"
11He answered and said, "A Man called Jesus made clay and anointed my eyes and said to me, "Go to the pool of[4] Siloam and wash.' So I went and washed, and I received sight."
12Then they said to him, "Where is He?"
He said, "I do not know."


The Pharisees Excommunicate the Healed Man
13 They brought him who formerly was blind to the Pharisees. 14Now it was a Sabbath when Jesus made the clay and opened his eyes. 15Then the Pharisees also asked him again how he had received his sight. He said to them, "He put clay on my eyes, and I washed, and I see."
16Therefore some of the Pharisees said, "This Man is not from God, because He does not keep the Sabbath."
Others said, "How can a man who is a sinner do such signs?" And there was a division among them.
17They said to the blind man again, "What do you say about Him because He opened your eyes?"
He said, "He is a prophet."
18But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind and received his sight, until they called the parents of him who had received his sight. 19And they asked them, saying, "Is this your son, who you say was born blind? How then does he now see?"
20His parents answered them and said, "We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind; 21but by what means he now sees we do not know, or who opened his eyes we do not know. He is of age; ask him. He will speak for himself." 22His parents said these things because they feared the Jews, for the Jews had agreed already that if anyone confessed that He was Christ, he would be put out of the synagogue. 23Therefore his parents said, "He is of age; ask him."
24So they again called the man who was blind, and said to him, "Give God the glory! We know that this Man is a sinner."
25He answered and said, "Whether He is a sinner or not I do not know. One thing I know: that though I was blind, now I see."
26Then they said to him again, "What did He do to you? How did He open your eyes?"
27He answered them, "I told you already, and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become His disciples?"
28Then they reviled him and said, "You are His disciple, but we are Moses' disciples. 29We know that God spoke to Moses; as for this fellow, we do not know where He is from."
30The man answered and said to them, "Why, this is a marvelous thing, that you do not know where He is from; yet He has opened my eyes! 31Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. 32Since the world began it has been unheard of that anyone opened the eyes of one who was born blind. 33If this Man were not from God, He could do nothing."
34They answered and said to him, "You were completely born in sins, and are you teaching us?" And they cast him out.


True Vision and True Blindness
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, "Do you believe in the Son of God?"[5]
36He answered and said, "Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?"
37And Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you."
38Then he said, "Lord, I believe!" And he worshiped Him.
39And Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind."
40Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, "Are we blind also?"
41Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, "We see.' Therefore your sin remains.

What do you make of this passage?

 

[Crusadar]

Bushido216 said: So... if evolution is a big made-up lie... then God's creation should reflect that, right?

It does.

Then why does God's creation reflect an evolutionary world?

And it doesn't. God's creation points to God as its creator not the made up lie of evolution that man has given a place to in his heart - where the truth of the word of God should be instead.

 

[Buttermilk]

Science is the how
Creation Myth is the why

 

[Didaskomenos]

Science is the how
Creation Myth is the why

So true. So clear. So concise. I like it!

 

[Bushido216]

Bushido216 said: So... if evolution is a big made-up lie... then God's creation should reflect that, right?

It does.

Then why does God's creation reflect an evolutionary world?

And it doesn't. God's creation points to God as its creator not the made up lie of evolution that man has given a place to in his heart - where the truth of the word of God should be instead.

Then explain to me the genetic similarities of populations today? Explain to me the trend we witness in the fossil record? Explain to me how light from supernovas are visible to us? Explain to me how we don't see any isotopes with a halflife of over a million years? Or even 20,000?

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Crusadar - back again and already insulting the faith of everyone who disagrees with you? Are you actually an atheist trying to discredit Christianity, or merely spiritually arrogant?

explain how shared retri-viral insertions point to YEC and not evolution.
Explain how observations such as the greater similarity between the proteins of crocodiles and turkeys than between crocodiles and turtles supports creationism rather than evolution.

Explain how the chromosomal fusion event, as evidenced by the telomere residues in human chromosome 2 support creationism rather than evolution.

Until you have done so, kindly keep your unsupported statement that the evidence points to YEC to yourself, as well as your implications that Wblastyn is not "born again" because he disagrees with you (which surely violates Rule 1 of these forums, not that the fundamentalists give a flying **** about that if they can abuse a more liberal brother) and that evolution is a lie where they belong - within your artificial YEC dominated universe.

 

[lucaspa]

Been there done that, and God said that evolution is a myth

Let me be sure I understand you correctly. You actually spoke to God and this is what God said. Can you document that in any way? Can you explain why God says something completely different in His Creation?

 

[lucaspa]

Bushido216 said: So... if evolution is a big made-up lie... then God's creation should reflect that, right?

It does.

Crusadar, can you point to the data that shows evolution is wrong? Scientists have been looking for such data since 1848.

Then why does God's creation reflect an evolutionary world?

And it doesn't. God's creation points to God as its creator not the made up lie of evolution that man has given a place to in his heart - where the truth of the word of God should be instead.

Two different concepts here:
1. God is Creator.
2. How God created, which is by evolution.

You are confusing evolution with denial of God as Creator. That has never been a part of evolution. This is what Darwin stated:

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved." C. Darwin, On the Origin of Species, pg 450.

Also: "To my mind it accords better with what we know of the laws impressed on matter by the Creator, that the production and extinction of the past and present inhabitants of the world should have been due to secondary causes, like those determining the birth and death of the individual." pg. 449.

Where is the denial of God as Creator there?

Crusadar, considering this is a Christians-only forum, it is a particularly bad place to try to argue that evolution denies God. No one here is going to accept that.

 

[lucaspa]

1:
I understand the this the Christian Only Forum.
Christians all belive that there is one God, and that God created the universe. However all Christians don't agree on how God created the universe. That is the reason why I posted this thread. If we all ask God to show us the truth then we will not longer dissagree on these types of things.

God already showed us the truth in His Creation. Jon, if you look thru statements made by creationists here, it is plain that they don't listen to God there.

2:
Can you back this up?
why don't you goto the link at the bottom of the post and take a look at some verses that have the word pray in them.
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?

None of these verses shows that prayer tells us how the universe was created or backs the position you want. They do assert that some prayers are answered in a physical manner, but not that knowledge is granted that way or that knowledge granted would counter the knowledge gained thru study of God's Creation.

 

[lucaspa]

What do you make of this passage?

What do you make of them and why do you think they are relevant to this discussion?

 

[Crusadar]

Boy it is lets gang up on the creationist day isn’t it!

Bushido said: Then explain to me the genetic similarities of populations today?

Well duh, the same creator, similarity in design tells us of one designer, not a common ancestry.

Explain to me the trend we witness in the fossil record?

The trend is of men’s own making bushido, the word of God mentions nothing of it.

Explain to me how light from supernovas are visible to us?

Do you really mean why do we see distant starlight in a young earth - correct? Well that really isn’t my area of interest so I won’t have much say to say about it – but I’ll let you bring up some points and maybe we can help each other understand from a Biblical perspective why it is possible.

Explain to me how we don't see any isotopes with a halflife of over a million years? Or even 20,000?

Actually we do see radioisotopes with a halflife less than a million years if that is your question. Of the 1400 or so radioisotopes known to exist, only 75 have half lives greater than 700 years. Here are just a few whose half life measure in the days and even less:

Polonium 210 = 138 days
Sulfur-35 = 88 days
Iodine-125 = 60 days
Chromium-51 = 28 days
Phoshorous-33 = 25 days
Lead-214 = 12 minutes
Bismuth-214 = 10 minutes
Protactinium-234 = less than a minute
Polonium-214 = less than 200 micro seconds

 

[Crusadar]

Karl said: Crusadar - back again and already insulting the faith of everyone who disagrees with you?

I was never really gone Karl, just been very busy. And no Karl, I’m not insulting your faith in God - only your religion of evolutionism.

Are you actually an atheist trying to discredit Christianity, or merely spiritually arrogant?

A low blow indeed I might add. An atheist who openly acknowledges that Jesus Christ is his personal Lord and Savior and submits to Him, as I have demonstrated many times – I wonder how many atheists acknowledge that.

explain how shared retri-viral insertions point to YEC and not evolution.

Rather than get into a discussion about something I have a very limited knowledge of how about I just link you here (something which I rarely do): and let you decide for yourself.

Explain how observations such as the greater similarity between the proteins of crocodiles and turkeys than between crocodiles and turtles supports creationism rather than evolution.

Which protein in particular karl, the old cytochrome c argument perhaps?

Explain how the chromosomal fusion event, as evidenced by the telomere residues in human chromosome 2 support creationism rather than evolution.

I’m impressed karl, you use such big scientific sounding words, lets hope you know what it is your talking about. But instead of simply hurling terms you probably found on some evolutionist website lets bring these supposed evidences forward so we can discuss from a Biblical and scientific perspective their merits in supporting common ancestry.

Until you have done so, kindly keep your unsupported statement that the evidence points to YEC to yourself, as well as your implications that Wblastyn is not "born again" because he disagrees with you (which surely violates Rule 1 of these forums, not that the fundamentalists give a flying **** about that if they can abuse a more liberal brother) and that evolution is a lie where they belong - within your artificial YEC dominated universe.

First of all karl tell me what you think it means to be born again and if it is according to what scripture says then I’ll take back my words – but if I have offended blasty, then I apologize to him. However a part of being born again is defending the word of God, not compromising its truths to whichever theory man happens to currently hold with reverence.

You forget that it is not about faith bashing as you suppose, but brotherly rebuke as I have stated enough times we owe that to each other as brothers in the body of Christ to challenge every doctrine that deviates from the word of God and question those who would follow them not out of ridicule but out of concern.

 

[Crusadar]

lucaspa said: Let me be sure I understand you correctly. You actually spoke to God and this is what God said. Can you document that in any way? Can you explain why God says something completely different in His Creation?

No, He spoke to me through His word. However instead of repeating ourselves for the "upteenth" time as you have put it once, lets just continue where we left off: http://www.christianforums.com/t56560&page=8

 

[Larry]

Since we're using the Bible as a science text book, can anyone point where scripture explains bio-chemisrty, gravity, electronics and geo-physics in detail. I'd like to narrow down my library to just one book. This would really free up a lot of shelf space for me.