Partial Preterist Only Recognizing False Christian End-time Doctrine...

[BABerean2]

Without a single exception, EVERY teacher of repute among Dispensationalists in general would TOTALLY agree with you in this statement. The ONLY Dispensationalists that teach such unscriptural ideas are radial fringe people like John Hagee.

Dr. David Jeremiah

Hal Lindsay

Dr. Tommy Ice

and many others repeat the doctrine taught by Dallas Theological which claims the "Church Age" ends at the Pretrib Rapture of the Church.




“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.



Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.




John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…

"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”

John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25

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The New Testament teaches that the Gentile branches were grafted in among the Israelite branches in Romans chapter 11.

Paul teaches that salvation comes by being grafted into the Olive Tree, which is a symbol of the New Covenant Church.

Jesus said there would be one flock and one shepherd. John 10:16


The covenant in Romans 11:27 is the New Blood Covenant of Jesus Christ "now" in effect, based on Hebrews 8:6.
It is not waiting on a future fulfillment.
If it is not the New Covenant, then what is it?

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

.

 

[Biblewriter]

deleted by poster because I am a futurist

 

[Biblewriter]

Deleted by poster because I am a futurist.

 

[BABerean2]

You are confusing two entirely different things, and ASSUMING that we teach things we do not teach at all.

Having been a deacon in an evangelical Bible church and having been taught the doctrine from a graduate of Dallas Theological during Sunday-School and having read Dr. Dwight Pentecost's book "Things to Come" and the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible and Dr. Charles Ryrie's book "Dispensationalism", I am not "ASSUMING" anything.

Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

 

[Biblewriter]

Deleted by poster because I am a futurist.

 

[BABerean2]

The fact remains, that you are accusing us of what you see as the results of our doctrines, rather than of what we actually say. And you have clearly demonstrated that you do not understand what we say.

Really...

 

[parousia70]

I ABSOLUTELY believe the ABSOLUTE truth of ALL these statements in the Bible. But the Bible clearly teaches that these should be interpreted in the light of the scripture that "a day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2 Peter 3:3-9)

So When God Told Noah, "after seven days I will make it rain forty days and forty nights" (Genesis 7:4) your claim is that the Bible teaches it should be interpreted in light of 2 Peter 3, and rendered this way: "after 7000 years I will make it rain 40,000 years"?

 

[random person]

Yeah I see your point. Well the PO said this - How can we identify which views are not correct, in an effort to get back to what was taught by Christ and His Apostles?

And so I was trying to show that the Apostles all believed that the end was coming and Jesus would return in their generation. So if we want to get back to what they taught then we should all become preterists.

well hebrews 1:2 does say christ appeared or spoken in the last days and hebrews 9:26 does say christ died at the end of the age. past tense in both instances. then there's the matter of matthew 10:23 & matthew 16:28 & 1 corinthians 10:11 too.

look up the greek

oh okay they were all false prophets deuteronomy 18:22 *winks*

 

[random person]

In all Three of the Gospel accounts of the Olivet Discourse we find two topics.

1. When will the temple be destroyed? Jesus gave numerous signs to look for.

2. When will the Second Coming occur? Jesus gave no definite signs, but only hints and said only the Father knows.

The dividing line is that a period of tribulation would occur before the second event.



Mar 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!

Mar 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Mar 13:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,

Mar 13:4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
(Mark's account only contains one question, while Matthew's account contains two.)

Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mar 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
(In Acts 22:19 we find Paul admitting that he fulfilled this verse.)

Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Mar 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
(In Luke's account we find this as the time Jerusalem was surrounded with armies. Cestius Gallus surrounded the city in 66 AD. The early Christians left the city before the final siege of 70 AD.)

Mar 13:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

Mar 13:16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

Mar 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
(During the siege of 70 AD mothers ate their own children.)

Mar 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

Mar 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Mar 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
(This is a key verse which says that Christ had told them all of these signs to look for, before the event occurs. A study of all three Gospel accounts will show that these things did occur, at least to some degree, leading up to the events of 70 AD.)
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Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (This is a time marker which says the next things would occur after a period of tribulation.)

Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
(In Revelation chapter 12 we have angels falling as stars from heaven.)

Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
(Nobody claimed to see Jesus in 70 AD., as far as I know.)

Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
(In the New Testament the "elect" are Christians.)

Mar 13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: (This does seem to be the hint of a sign.)

Mar 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. (This seems to be a sign, but of the previous verse.)

Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
(Does this go with the first part about 70 AD or about the second part and the Second Coming?)

Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. (If Jesus did not know the day, the "Blood Moons" do not know either.)

Mar 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Mar 13:34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Mar 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
(We are to be ready for His Coming at all times and it has been this way since the first century.)

Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
.

the tribulation is speaking on behest of the persecution of the saints.

persecution (tribulation verses 5-24) first event read the books of acts
wrath and redemption second event

if you recall the persecution and 1st roman-jewish war were contemporary events nero caesar died in 68 a.d.

what about matthew 24:34 did christ say partially fulfilled or all fulfilled?

 

[Jipsah]

How can we identify which views are not correct, in an effort to get back to what was taught by Christ and His Apostles? The number one key is that it takes the focus off of Christ in any way.

That one is absolutely crucial.

 

[random person]

just remember what jesus said in matthew 5:17-18 about the abrogation of the law?

in jesus' day, "the law" was an abbreviation for the whole old covenant including psalms, proverbs, and all the prophets.

paul didnt abrogate the covenantal curse in acts 13?

in 1 corinthians 14:21-22, paul speaking on the law quotes isaiah!

in romans 3:10-19, paul speaking on the law quotes psalms, proverbs, isaiah, and jeremiah!

oh and what about matthew 11:13? luke 24:25-27? luke 24:44-47?

luke 21:22 luke 21:32

 

[random person]

just remember what jesus said in matthew 5:17-18 about the abrogation of the law?

in jesus' day, "the law" was an abbreviation for the whole old covenant including psalms, proverbs, and all the prophets.

paul didnt abrogate the covenantal curse in acts 13?

in 1 corinthians 14:21-22, paul speaking on the law quotes isaiah!

in romans 3:10-19, paul speaking on the law quotes psalms, proverbs, isaiah, and jeremiah!

oh and what about matthew 11:13? luke 24:25-27? luke 24:44-47?

luke 21:22 luke 21:32

according to matthew 5:17-18, if heaven and earth are the genuine articles and not covenantal in nature (see genesis 37:9; isaiah 51:15-16; jeremiah 31:35-36; isaiah 65-66) then everyone is still under the mosaic law until the dissolution of the universe happens.

and christ did not fulfill the law and prophets at the cross alone.

he did not fulfill his resurrection and our resurrection at the cross.
he did not receive his glory at the cross. luke 24:25-27
the gospel was not preached to all nations at the cross. luke 24:44-47
the holy spirit was not poured out at the cross. acts 2:16-21
the covenantal curse was not fulfilled at the cross. acts 13

christ did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. all of it.

what christ is saying in matthew 5:17-18 is this, nothing in the old testament will fail before the passing of the law. hebrews 8:13 & hebrews 10:9. christ's words will be eternalized.

the cross did not destroy the law but the cross is written in law.