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Thank you for explaining further. I'm glad to know your communion is still councilliar.No, no, no. I'm sorry. I didn't mean anything like that. My point was more that insofar as you can find something objectionable in HH Pope Shenouda III's writings, so can we, the difference being that some of us are not willing to admit it. Perhaps it is because HH was recently declared a saint, to which I would say so was St. Justin Martyr in the pre-congregation times, but that doesn't make his seeming acceptance of creation out of preexisting matter somehow magically be "the Orthodox position" or whatever you'd call it. That's simply not how things work.
When I wrote about the man in the chair, I was talking about the deference that some Copts pay to the Coptic Pope that seems to be de facto akin to the same syndrome in the Latins, in terms of its rabidness and its lack of critical thought (even though the Copts wouldn't realize it or necessarily talk about it in those same terms). No doubt this is especially heavy and sensitive when it comes to HH Pope Shenouda III, because he has recently departed within everyone's memory, and for many who are of a certain age he is the only Pope that they really remember (HH Cyril VI having passed in 1971). That ought not change our ecclesiological principles, however, which are traditional in the Orthodox, conciliar sense. One of the very first things that HH Pope Tawadros II did after being elevated was decree his intention to root out precisely this tendency, and so he declared "We are a conciliar Church", and set about working to try to fix some of the things that HH Pope Shenouda III's very long papacy had set in place and/or left ossified that needed to be dealt with, like finally getting some darn bishops for the ecclesiological badlands that we call Canada.
The OO Church does not have, and has never had, and never will have, one chair. Our ecclesiology does not allow such a thing. Etchmiadzin of the Armenians, Axum of the Ethiopians, and wherever it is that the Syriacs have been chased to thanks to the war/Islamist takeover of Syria (Beirut, I think) all function just fine. We are actually less tightly held-together in that way than you guys are, as we lack an equivalent of the EP. Some will argue (of these particular churches...totally coincidentally, I'm sure) that the Patriarch of Alexandria or of the Syriac Orthodox should have this role, but that doesn't make it a thing. Hence, just for instance, we mention by name the Patriarch of Antioch (one of the oldest churches of the communion) and the Patriarch of Eritrea (one of the newest, in terms of their 1990s autocephaly) in every Coptic liturgy, because this is following an agreement that we have with these churches in particular. It does not say anything regarding who would or should be ranked where. We don't really do that.
I see. I'm afraid I don't know enough about the theology of Palamas to comment, Father. Sorry.
Again, I just meant to underline that HH has been wrong about things, and this is one of those things that even Copts like Fr. Athanasius Iskander have pointed out. This doesn't really say anything about Palamas, though, as most Copts (and me) don't really know him. He's too late.
Coptic icons by and large just look odd. Super simplistic, out of proportion with huge heads and little bodies, very unusual style. I wonder why the difference? I've always wondered.
I always liked the Coptic style. Georgians have a unique style as well, with the icons almost looking stretched longways. the Carpathos/Ukrainians also can have a more Western style too, due to Latin influence. I like them all.
I don't like Western style icons at all. The coptic, imho, are the absolute worst. My wife thinks they creep her out. I'm a Byzantine style fan....oh, and painted!
Yes, it's hard to get more beautiful than the Sitka Icon of the Theotokos & Child, and it's western.
https://oca.org/saints/lives/2017/07/08/101965-icon-of-the-mother-of-god-our-lady-of-sitka
It’s very ridiculous that the Oriental Churches are still seperate from the Eastern Orthodox Church, it’s about time for a reunion. I always loved Coptic Iconography, it’s very simple yet very lovely.
I can’t stand the misshapen and creepy iconography, but the reunion?—-HECK YEAH!
buuuuuuut Byzantine iconography is intentionally misshapen, you silly-silly
Not like in the Coptic. The Coptic has a fun house mirror quality.
To be honest there are some icons I like (and usually some I dislike) of each style. The Byzantine are most familiar to me so I prefer them. I do like quite of few of the Coptic ones that I didn't even separate out in my mind as Coptic - I suppose mostly the older ones it seems? There are a few western styled ones I like, but many of them go way over the line for me. They'd make nice portraits, but they don't or can't function as icons for me. Too realistic.
I'm curious about something? One of the examples that really struck me was GxG's signature. This icon:
View attachment 234811
That style strikes me as very different. I immediately notice the shapes of the eyes in such an icon (especially one like this with so many faces). And they often seem very vibrant in color to me. I guess I am used to them in that I like them now, but more as a stylized artistic depiction rather than being inspired by them as an icon normally does.
I'm just curious - can you tell me where this style fits into the "family tree" of iconography? And would you say this type is characterized by the almond-shaped eyes and bright colors, or did I just happen to see a few like that?
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