Rebuking spirits--the Charismatic Cure-all

[Elijah2]

Lismore, your wink gave away that you were being lighthearted, your post wasn't my concern, sorry I didn't make it clear.

Elijah, I felt you were accusing the OP of mockery, when I think all he is doing is saying a lot of folks take this thing too far in a weird and fanciful direction that ends up damaging people.

My dear sister, I wasn't accusing anyone of anything, but speaking out.

When one speaks out, as in the case of the OP, he isn't speaking for everyone else, but there are those struggling Christians who read such a post, and they then get the wrong idea of what is really being said.

The OP said a lot, and he made many assumptions because of one possible incident in referring to Wagner's ministry.

The point I was making is that we need to be careful of our IDLE WORDS as they may appear to be MOCKING.

Again, people read too much into what I say, as in this case.

Read my response again to the OP.

Blessings.

 

[1usul1]

I only cast demons out of people when they start manifesting or when I discern something. I have seen people cast demons out of head knowledge, fleshy discernment it usually goes poorly for all involved.

 

[Elijah2]

I like the way you summed this up, LinkH. I couldn't agree more. You are not saying that there are no demoniacally caused illnesses, nor that there are no persons who commit murder because they are plagued by murderous demons. We need to be careful, and determine what the true cause is before we jump in to exorcise evil spirits.

Sometimes is just plain old human nature gone wrong.

Mate, I don't know where you walk, but I haven’t heard anyone imply those ridiculous assumptions that those who commit murder are plagued by murderous demons. What books are you and OP reading?

So where did you get that assumption, because I HAVN"T heard anyone say that in all my years around the Body of Christ.

Mate, when deliverance comes, it comes through patience with a person with good sound GOD-anointed counselling. Demons don't leave unless they have to.

And when you transform and renew those people, by cleansing their hands, and purifying their heart by confession, repentance, and forgiveness, then those demons must leave.

I’m not disagreeing completely with the OP, but if you go around casting out demons, without healing the person first of their broken-heart, emotional, and spiritual problems then there will be a very mixed up person and be further spiritually abused.

People who make these assumptions give the healing and deliverance ministry a bad name, just because of a few cowboys.

You find the “true cause” by good GOD-anointed counselling.

Blessings.

 

[Elijah2]

Long ago I read the book - Pigs in The Parlor and it had a list of demons in the back- it was every known emotional thing one could think of... I remember thinking wow there is a spirit for eveything.. I think the term "spirit of" gets thrown around waaaaaay too much... It puts things into they hyper-inflated super spiritual realm. I believe there are spirits who are totally out to harm believers. but just because you get a headache doesnt mean it's a "spirit of headache."

Yep, Pigs in The Parlor is way out there, and even though that book may appear out of whack, there are still some good points in that book, that are for real.

Yep, you get a headache from the oppression that the demon's presence places upon you.

 

[1usul1]

Mate, I don't know where you walk, but I haven’t heard anyone imply those ridiculous assumptions that those who commit murder are plagued by murderous demons. What books are you and OP reading?

So where did you get that assumption, because I HAVN"T heard anyone say that in all my years around the Body of Christ.

Mate, when deliverance comes, it comes through patience with a person with good sound GOD-anointed counselling. Demons don't leave unless they have to.

And when you transform and renew those people, by cleansing their hands, and purifying their heart by confession, repentance, and forgiveness, then those demons must leave.

I’m not disagreeing completely with the OP, but if you go around casting out demons, without healing the person first of their broken-heart, emotional, and spiritual problems then there will be a very mixed up person and be further spiritually abused.

People who make these assumptions give the healing and deliverance ministry a bad name, just because of a few cowboys.

You find the “true cause” by good GOD-anointed counselling.

Blessings.

I agree with a lot what you are saying, i think the Op poster is aiming at theologies that call demons to be the be all and end all of all problems in a person.

 

[Elijah2]

I only cast demons out of people when they start manifesting or when I discern something. I have seen people cast demons out of head knowledge, fleshy discernment it usually goes poorly for all involved.

Yep mate, when they manifest, then it means the Holy Spirit is at work, and that's when we go to work. But, as sad as it is, you get those spiritual jockeys who have all head knowledge and nothing more, and they do more damage than good.

I've had a number of occasions when a demon had manifested in children, and just speaking to those demons in authority, and on those occasions I didn't even had to use His Name.

Blessings.

 

[Elijah2]

I agree with a lot what you are saying, i think the Op poster is aiming at theologies that call demons to be the be all and end all of all problems in a person.

The sad thing about all is this, is that, those who condemn and knock this ministry, don't know nothing about those heavenly and earthly things of the natural and supernatural realm.

And as sad as it is, many of those who express their assumptions are possibly influence by religious spirits. OH, I shouldn't have said that!

Blessings.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Good post.That is all a part of the New apostolic Reformation movement.They have tried that warfare for years over cities,but nothing happened.Often the "spirits".is just the flesh.

Good info and very correct, that is a very misled and messed up movement IMHO.

Thanks for listening.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

What about the demon of false deliverance?
It seems VERY VERY prevelant in some circles of the body of Christ today...and it's a powerful force that can hurt a lot of people.

 

[KleinerApfel]

The sad thing about all is this, is that, those who condemn and knock this ministry, don't know nothing about those heavenly and earthly things of the natural and supernatural realm.

And as sad as it is, many of those who express their assumptions are possibly influence by religious spirits. OH, I shouldn't have said that!

Blessings.

Basically, you just said that if anyone sees this issue differently than you we have demonic deception.

Sigh. Honestly Elijah, I enjoy a lot of your posts, but that is just plain rude!

What about the demon of false deliverance?
It seems VERY VERY prevelant in some circles of the body of Christ today...and it's a powerful force that can hurt a lot of people.

I have to agree. I do NOT pooh-pooh the reality of demonic activity in people's lives AT ALL, and have experience both of receiving and of ministering deliverance.

However, there is a sector within the church that has gone completely off the wall, and well-meaning ministries can sometimes be wrong. They then pass on all kinds of peculiarness which then gets further corrupted "Chinese Whisper" style by people reading their books or attending a conference for a day who go off and practice half-baked ideas and extreme theologies on unsuspecting needy folks.

It compounds the pain and confusion of such emotionally vulnerable people. I know, I have been there and am glad I saw the truth and got free!

 

[Seeking Him]

The OP mentions C. Peter Wagner and spiritual warfare. I've been reading some books that question these tactics.

"Seminars are conducted to teach people how to take dominion over their cities, how to receive power to work signs, how to bind the spirits allegedly controlling the four directions North, South, East and West."

They hold pep rallies designed to scare the devil away. People get worked into a frenzy. After barking at the devil for several hours, the apostles blow out of town and everyone goes home feeling self-satisfied that they told the devil off." - Albert Dager

"There is spiritual warfare in the Bible. But nowhere does it say believers must attack, bind and defeat named local spiritual entities as a means of evangelism. We oppose Satan through the armor of God, not by naming his subordinates, reconstructing hierarchies or mapping their territories.

Ephesians 6:10-18, shows our defense stance, rather than attacking and binding demons. Paul says to put on the armor of God. The sword is our offensive weapon. The word for sword is "machaira" which was a short sword, like a dager, used for attack in personal defense.

The sword of God's word is more powerful than spiritual war games. The sword of God's word is sharper than any two edged sword, alive and powerful." - Sandy Simpson

 

[KleinerApfel]

Good to have you back, Seeking Him. Good post too!

 

[Elijah2]

Basically, you just said that if anyone sees this issue differently than you we have demonic deception.

Sigh. Honestly Elijah, I enjoy a lot of your posts, but that is just plain rude!



I have to agree. I do NOT pooh-pooh the reality of demonic activity in people's lives AT ALL, and have experience both of receiving and of ministering deliverance.

However, there is a sector within the church that has gone completely off the wall, and well-meaning ministries can sometimes be wrong. They then pass on all kinds of peculiarness which then gets further corrupted "Chinese Whisper" style by people reading their books or attending a conference for a day who go off and practice half-baked ideas and extreme theologies on unsuspecting needy folks.

It compounds the pain and confusion of such emotionally vulnerable people. I know, I have been there and am glad I saw the truth and got free!

I have never said that any well-meaning ministry never goes off the end, but I can assure you that I don't go to "Chinese Whisper" meetings or reading their books but speak from personal experience, which dont come from half-baked ideas and extreme theologies.

My personal experience is the reason for my warning to be aware, beware, and don't be unaware.

And I say that because there is so much doubt and confusion caused by such, and when the truth is trying to be shared, we end up with brickall attitude as such is being expressed on the thread.

Demons are demon, and spirits are spirits and they have much influence over many of the Body of Christ. We need to realise that when a demon leaves a HOUSE, this is, a persons' body, it goes to dry places.

Well, on the theology of some on this thread, I guess "dry places" are very overcrowded now.

Blessings.

 

[Cassidy]

I think we give demons too much credit....Christ has already defeated them all!!!

 

[ANM29]

I think we give demons too much credit....Christ has already defeated them all!!!

 

[lismore]

Well thats fair enough, I only expressed my views on what I know from my ministry.

Blessings.

Hi Elijah

Please dont take this remark the wrong way. When you spoke before about your hospital experience. Was that a spirit? if so, why didnt you drive it out and save weeks in hospital? If not, how do you know it wasnt a spirit?

God Bless

Lismore

 

[lismore]

I think we give demons too much credit....Christ has already defeated them all!!!

The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

 

[JimB]

Rebuking spirits (including those that are not there) is a lot easier than actually getting your knees and hands dirty dealing with hang-ups, addictions, personal problems, and nasty personal issues—you know, actually bearing one another’s’ burdens—which often takes time and work. It is a lot easier to utter a few magical words like, “Satan we rebuke thee in the name of Jaysus” (KJ English seems to work better) or “Devil, loose her and let her go.” Then we can go on our merry way and feel like we’ve complete a job well done.

I know this sounds sarcastic, but it’s the way I have observed it through the years. Unfortunately, complex problems do not always have such easy solutions.

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

 

[Tobias]

Trying to cast out demons who aren't there, is no more harmful IMO than praying for the sick and not seeing them healed. We do these things because we are not perfect yet and don't know everything there is to know about the situation. But how much harm can it be to try, and see if asking, commanding, or rebuking is the solution to our problems?

The real problems arise when we are trapped into circular patterns by our theology. When we are taught to believe that our problems are all caused by demons (when they aren't), and that it is our lack of faith or holiness that keeps us oppressed. Or when we are sick and God is using the situation to refine us, but we cannot accept that because we think that He wishes everybody to be healed all of the time. So we turn our attention inward, and consider ourselves to be failures and unworthy of the graces of God.

Generally a person who prays for the sick/oppressed and doesn't see them instantly healed, will look for other means to resolve the problem. People for centuries have found the need to walk the Christian life, and thereby see the deliverance from the bondages of the World. Resist the Devil, and he will flee from you. Sometimes this takes longer than others. And if God doesn't choose to miraculously heal you, perhaps His plan is to lead you to the right doctors, through whom He plans on solving the problem? Or letting you be a light to others who also suffer in the same way, knowing that this life is but a flash, and that spiritual health and wellbeing is a much greater prize than physical wholeness???

The opposite is true though as well. I have seen more traditional Christians struggle with sin for years and years, never considering the possibility that there may be demons involved that could be rebuked and quickly cast aside. I imagine the same goes for Healing. Sometimes we struggle needlessly, when all we have to do is come to God and ask for wisdom.

That right there is the key. Seek, and you shall find. If we come to Him, He will show us which of life's trials have an easy fix, and which ones we must learn how to die to ourselves through.

 

[Catherineanne]

Rebuking spirits (including those that are not there) is a lot easier than actually getting your knees and hands dirty dealing with hang-ups, addictions, personal problems, and nasty personal issues—you know, actually bearing one another’s’ burdens—which often takes time and work. It is a lot easier to utter a few magical words like, “Satan we rebuke thee in the name of Jaysus” (KJ English seems to work better) or “Devil, loose her and let her go.” Then we can go on our merry way and feel like we’ve complete a job well done.

I know this sounds sarcastic, but it’s the way I have observed it through the years. Unfortunately, complex problems do not always have such easy solutions.

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

I couldn't agree more. There is no room for magic spells in our faith, and those who indulge in them are wasting their time.

Magic is man attempting to manipulate or coerce the Deity. Christian prayer, on the other hand, is us seeking his will, and interceding for our brothers and sisters while always bearing in mind, 'yet not my will but thine be done'.