Rebuking spirits--the Charismatic Cure-all

[LinkH]

If someone is a drunk, does he have a spirit of alcoholism?
If someone has lust, does he have a spirit of lust?
If someone looses a foot, does he have a spirit of one-footedness?

Can you cast the demon of one-footedness out of someone with one foot and cure him that way?

I asked that question about one-footedness of a friend who considered every sickness to be a demon. He said he didn't think the guy had a spirit of one-footnedness, but there was a demon in the factory who knocked something over on his foot.

I suppose people mean different things when they use the word 'spirit' in this context. But a lot of people mean specific demons. I just don't think we can, based on scripture, assume that there is a specific demon for every ailment, social problem, or philosophy. I do see 'spirit of' something or other used occasionally in the Bible, but it irks me to see how widespread its usage is in some churches nowadays.

Also, there seems to be the idea that casting out demons is a cure-all. I was in Asia in the 1990's in a church where Wagoner's 'spiritual warfare' was popular. Certain Christians referred to rebuking demons as 'spiritual warfare prayer'-- something that I found disturbing since they were calling talking to demons 'prayer.'

I can find a lot of specific teachings in the Bible that give us great promises about praying to God in faith. But I can't find promises that rebuking demons will give us what we need. Even if you could cast a 'spirit of one-footedness' out of a man with one foot, he'd still need God to create him a new foot in order for him to be healed. In prayer times, I believe a lot of energy and effort can be wasted by rebuking demons we don't even know exist-- ones people invent based on a list of symptoms-- instead of actually praying to God, who can help us.

There is also a danger here. Jude and II Peter 2 warn about false teachers who speak evil of dignitaries. The examples Jude gives, of speaking evil of a dignitary taken together with II Peter, is an example of Michael not giving a harsh rebuke to Satan. Apparently, Satan is one of these 'dignitary' types of beings. The false teachers erred by the way they railed against dignitaries. Does it make sense that Christians should single out principalities in the heavenlies and yell at them? I don't see Jesus doing this. I don't see him casting down the spirit of unbelief over a city before he preached. The Bible doesn't show the apostles doing such things. Paul did spiritual warfare by preaching the Gospel, accompanied by prayer. He did signs, wonders, and miracles. The Bible does show him naming all the problems in a city 'spirits' and casting them out.

We don't know that every murderer has a demon. (We do know that every man who sins does so when he is led away of HIS OWN LUST and enticed-- it aint just demons.) But lets suppose murderers do each have a 'spirit of murder' in them. And someone casts all the spirits of murder out of a city. Jesus told a parable about an unclean spirit cast out of a man. It goes and gets 7 other spirits more wicked than itself and returns. If you cast all the demons out of a city, and you don't win all the people to Christ and get them filled with something else, won't the state of the city be worse?

I remember talking to a young church planter in Indonesia. He told me that he had dreams where he fought with demons and he could feel demons beating him up. There were no bruises when he woke up (unlike the testimony of one person I knew who was into 'spiritual warfare prayer.') So I asked him if he did the 'spiritual warfare prayer' stuff. I showed him the verses in Jude, pointed out the dangers of it. I explained that Christ rebuked demons that obviously manifested or that he discerned. The apostles did the same thing. He accepted what I said and decided to stop wildly rebuking demons, coming against them, etc.

We shouldn't 'invent' evil spirits. If you can't sense an evil spirit by spiritual means, or don't know they exist by scripture, don't make one up. Rebuking spirits of of people who don't have them can make the person you pray with unnecessarily fearful or weirded out. (He thinks, "Oh no, I have a demon!") Don't rebuke all the spirits of this or that out of a city, unless the Lord specifically tells you do. You don't want the city to get seven times worse (assuming what you do works.) And remember, that we have a God who answers prayers prayed in faith in Jesus' name. He hasn't promised to fix our problems based on our yelling at demons. While there is a place for rebuking evil spirits, lets follow the example of Christ and the apostles and the teaching of the Bible on the matter.

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

Good post.That is all a part of the New apostolic Reformation movement.They have tried that warfare for years over cities,but nothing happened.Often the "spirits".is just the flesh.



Gal 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Colossians 3:5-8
Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming. 7 In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.

 

[lismore]

Thanks for sharing. Im subscribing to this topic!

 

[KleinerApfel]

Very good OP and needs saying more often in some circles!

 

[LogicalChristian]

Discernment is the key, and I think a lot of folks don't have any.

 

[Elijah2]

If someone is a drunk, does he have a spirit of alcoholism?
If someone has lust, does he have a spirit of lust?
If someone looses a foot, does he have a spirit of one-footedness?
Mate, there are many different types of spirits behind many foolish things, and worldly things.

Can you cast the demon of one-footedness out of someone with one foot and cure him that way?
Now this is a bit ridiculous, isn’t it mate?

I asked that question about one-footedness of a friend who considered every sickness to be a demon. He said he didn't think the guy had a spirit of one-footedness, but there was a demon in the factory who knocked something over on his foot.
Because a person considers that behind sickness there is a demonic element, then there is no reason for being ridiculous in trying to prove your point.

I suppose people mean different things when they use the word 'spirit' in this context.
A spirit is a spirit, good or bad, and clean or unclean. A spirit is a spirit.

But a lot of people mean specific demons. I just don't think we can, based on scripture, assume that there is a specific demon for every ailment, social problem, or philosophy.
My dear brother, the Bible is silent on many things, and I can assure you that there are many great men and women of our Lord Jesus Christ in the healing and deliverance ministry who DON’T ASSUME anything, they speak from knowledge, understanding, and experience of the kingdom of darkness.

If you had that knowledge and understanding, then you wouldn’t even be posting this thread.

I do see 'spirit of' something or other used occasionally in the Bible, but it irks me to see how widespread its usage is in some churches nowadays.
Yes, it irks me much of the time when, self-professed deliverers and healers get on the bandwagon, and flaunt their wares of misinformation and showmanship.

Also, there seems to be the idea that casting out demons is a cure-all.
It appears you mix in the wrong circles.

I was in Asia in the 1990's in a church where Wagoner's 'spiritual warfare' was popular.
SO this is a label of a special Spiritual Warfare activity, are you suffering from a “spirit of a labeller”?

Certain Christians referred to rebuking demons as 'spiritual warfare prayer'-- something that I found disturbing since they were calling talking to demons 'prayer.'
Mate, if you haven’t experienced anything in the supernatural realm of the demonic, then be very careful of what you say, in jest towar others. You can easily be judged for your “idle words”.

I can find a lot of specific teachings in the Bible that give us great promises about praying to God in faith. But I can't find promises that rebuking demons will give us what we need.
My dear brother, please don’t ridicule great men and women of our Lord Jesus Christ who minister in the healing and deliverance ministry, and I am referring to Neil Anderson, Derek Prince, Francis MacNutt, Kurt Kock and many more. Mr. Wagner doesn't come under consideration.

Even if you could cast a 'spirit of one-footedness' out of a man with one foot, he'd still need God to create him a new foot in order for him to be healed.
My dear brother, this statement is over and beyond the any spiritual reasoning, so therefore, why make such a ridiculous statement?

In prayer times, I believe a lot of energy and effort can be wasted by rebuking demons we don't even know exist-- ones people invent based on a list of symptoms-- instead of actually praying to God, who can help us.
Yes, that is so, because when you rebuke a demon and cast it out of the “house”, and if that “house” is “empty, swept, and put in order” then those demons will only return to that “house and make them worse than what they were before” (Matthew 12:43-45 & Luke 11:24-26).

Before a demon can be expelled from a “house”, that is, a person, that person needs to have cleansed their hands, purified their heart, and have their “soul” (“house”) filled with His Word and HIM. And once all that is done, then they will submit and draw near to our Lord Jesus Christ and will resist Satan and his forces.

There is also a danger here. Jude and II Peter 2 warn about false teachers who speak evil of dignitaries. The examples Jude gives, of speaking evil of a dignitary taken together with II Peter, is an example of Michael not giving a harsh rebuke to Satan. Apparently, Satan is one of these 'dignitary' types of beings.
I don’t know what you point is, but you are not making any point here.

Have you ever worked in the healing and deliverance ministry?

Yes, there are many false teachers, and they do more damage than good in their showmanship. I’ve seen many over the past decade.

And I've also seen many who write what you are writing now do just as much damage to setting the captives free from bondage.

The false teachers erred by the way they railed against dignitaries. Does it make sense that Christians should single out principalities in the heavenlies and yell at them?
At the moment my dear brother, you are fighting against “flesh and blood”. Do you know anything about the principalities, powers, rulers of darkness and spiritual hosts?

I don’t think so!

I don't see Jesus doing this. I don't see him casting down the spirit of unbelief over a city before he preached. The Bible doesn't show the apostles doing such things. Paul did spiritual warfare by preaching the Gospel, accompanied by prayer. He did signs, wonders, and miracles. The Bible does show him naming all the problems in a city 'spirits' and casting them out.
Mate, if you want to learn those “earthly and heavenly things” of the natural and supernatural realm, then you won’t find them written in detail in His Word. But, from personal experience you will open your mind them.

We don't know that every murderer has a demon.
No, you don’t know, do you?

Just because you don’t know, it doesn’t mean that a demon can't be behind murder.

You are expressing to me a person who has no knowledge or understanding of the supernatural realm, and you are still conformed to the philosophy of world.

(We do know that every man who sins does so when he is led away of HIS OWN LUST and enticed-- it aint just demons.) But lets suppose murderers do each have a 'spirit of murder' in them. And someone casts all the spirits of murder out of a city. Jesus told a parable about an unclean spirit cast out of a man. It goes and gets 7 other spirits wicked than itself and returns. If you cast all the demons out of a city, and you don't win all the people to Christ and get them filled with something else, won't the state of the city be worse?
Do you know anything about “principalities and powers”?

So, you experience some over-zealous people doing all these things, so what makes your theory right?

I remember talking to a young church planter in Indonesia. He told me that he had dreams where he fought with demons and he could feel demons beating him up. There were no bruises when he woke up (unlike the testimony of one person I knew who was into 'spiritual warfare prayer.') So I asked him if he did the 'spiritual warfare prayer' stuff. I showed him the verses in Jude, pointed out the dangers of it. I explained that Christ rebuked demons that obviously manifested or that he discerned.
Be aware, beware, and don’t be unaware of “idle words” or to “mock” others!

The apostles did the same thing. He accepted what I said and decided to stop wildly rebuking demons, coming against them, etc.

we shouldn't 'invent' evil spirits.
Mate, as much as you are a quarter right in your thinking, but no one INVENTS spirits.

If you can't sense an evil spirit by spiritual means, or don't know they exist by scripture, don't make one up.
SO you are judging and condemning others, now is that a spirit of judgemental and condemnationt?

Rebuking spirits of people who don't have them can make the person you pray with unnecessarily fearful or weirded out. (He thinks, "Oh no, I have a demon!") Don't rebuke all the spirits of this or that out of a city, unless the Lord specifically tells you do.
Mate, before you go speaking out and knocking other people or things, why not you just sit back, and listen to our Lord Jesus Christ, and not do the work of the enemy by causing doubt and confusion because you are on a mission to prove all these teachings as wrong.

You are partially right, because their is a bit of whackoism in some of this stuff.

Go away, and read books written by Neil Anderson, Derek Prince, Francis MacNutt, and Kurt Koch, and you might learn something. And keep away from all that fairy floss books that are published just to make money.

You don't want the city to get seven times worse (assuming what you do works.) And remember, that we have a God who answers prayers prayed in faith in Jesus' name. He hasn't promised to fix our problems based on our yelling at demons. While there is a place for rebuking evil spirits, lets follow the example of Christ and the apostles and the teaching of the Bible on the matter.
Our Lord Jesus Christ came to heal the broken-hearted, deliver them from evil, to set them free from captivity, heal their sicknesses and cast out demons. Now, HIS disciples have been doing that for over a thousand of years, plus; and they are still doing that today.

Also, those who work in this ministry, also bring those people to submission to our Lord Jesus Christ after they have cleansed their hands and purified their hearts. Demons will only leave when they have no “house” to live in and they go to “dry places---roaming around like a roaring lion seeking to devour whoever they can” Luke 11:24-26 and 1 Peter 5:8).

Blessings!

 

[Elijah2]

Oh by the way, Spiritual Warfare is Spiritual Warfare, and if those people want to pray over cities, and areas, then let them be, because you haven't seen any results by some of those prayers, then that doesn't make you right.

What you think is rediculous, I guess it as rediculous as our Lord Jesus Christ spitting on some mud and plastering upon the blind man's eyes?

Open you eyes, and your heart, and you will be amazed what you will see.

Blessings.

 

[lismore]

If someone is a drunk, does he have a spirit of alcoholism?
If someone has lust, does he have a spirit of lust?
If someone looses a foot, does he have a spirit of one-footedness?

I rebuke the mocker spirit in you!!!!

Couldnt resist

 

[Elijah2]

I rebuke the mocker spirit in you!!!!

Couldnt resist

Wrong, you meant to say: "I rebuke the spirit of mockery, in Jesus' Name!" That is what you meant, didn't you?

 

[lismore]

Oh by the way, Spiritual Warfare is Spiritual Warfare, and if those people want to pray over cities, and areas, then let them be, because you haven't seen any results by some of those prayers, then that doesn't make you right.

But if you drive demons out and dont see any results that doesnt line up with scripture.

Jesus drove a demon out of people and they were in their right mind afterwards and everyone saw the results.

The OP is talking about demonologists who always seem to be casting out demons but no results. Nothing changes.

 

[KleinerApfel]

I don't see mockery in the OP at all, but a genuine questioning of some very important issues. I'm glad there are people in the Christian family not afraid to use their brains and ask people to justify their beliefs, especially where those beliefs directly affect ministry that is offered to some of the most vulnerable people.

 

[lismore]

I don't see mockery in the OP at all, but a genuine questioning of some very important issues.

Yes I agree. My remark was a joke. Demonologists, when questionned often react by calling their questionner a mocker spirit or jezebel spirit. Thats the context of my joke.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Lismore, your wink gave away that you were being lighthearted, your post wasn't my concern, sorry I didn't make it clear.

Elijah, I felt you were accusing the OP of mockery, when I think all he is doing is saying a lot of folks take this thing too far in a weird and fanciful direction that ends up damaging people.

 

[Cassidy]

I prefer to call these things the work of the flesh. And illness happens because we are in this world...however we are not OF this world so these things have already been dealt with at the cross. I call them these things because that's what the bible calls them. Driving the spirit of this out and the spirit of that out simply isn't biblical at all.

There is no mockery in your post...just common sense

 

[Tobias]

We shouldn't 'invent' evil spirits. If you can't sense an evil spirit by spiritual means, or don't know they exist by scripture, don't make one up. Rebuking spirits of of people who don't have them can make the person you pray with unnecessarily fearful or weirded out. (He thinks, "Oh no, I have a demon!") Don't rebuke all the spirits of this or that out of a city, unless the Lord specifically tells you do. You don't want the city to get seven times worse (assuming what you do works.) And remember, that we have a God who answers prayers prayed in faith in Jesus' name. He hasn't promised to fix our problems based on our yelling at demons. While there is a place for rebuking evil spirits, lets follow the example of Christ and the apostles and the teaching of the Bible on the matter.

I like the way you summed this up, LinkH. I couldn't agree more. You are not saying that there are no demoniacally caused illnesses, nor that there are no persons who commit murder because they are plagued by murderous demons. We need to be careful, and determine what the true cause is before we jump in to exorcise evil spirits.

Sometimes is just plain old human nature gone wrong.

 

[ANM29]

Good post.That is all a part of the New apostolic Reformation movement.They have tried that warfare for years over cities,but nothing happened.Often the "spirits".is just the flesh.



Gal 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Colossians 3:5-8
Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming. 7 In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.

Yes, just flesh in most cases.

Some do take it too far, tell me about it..whew. Everything is a demon. IF the children are acting out, they are full of demons. No matter what it is, they have a spirit of this or that. Some people are, but....

I had to laugh off the spirit of one footedness, boy that was funny...ROTFL!

 

[EyezOFire]

Long ago I read the book - Pigs in The Parlor and it had a list of demons in the back- it was every known emotional thing one could think of... I remember thinking wow there is a spirit for eveything.. I think the term "spirit of" gets thrown around waaaaaay too much... It puts things into they hyper-inflated super spiritual realm. I believe there are spirits who are totally out to harm believers. but just because you get a headache doesnt mean it's a "spirit of headache."

 

[AudioArtist]

Elijah2 did raise some good points, though.

 

[Elijah2]

But if you drive demons out and dont see any results that doesnt line up with scripture.

Jesus drove a demon out of people and they were in their right mind afterwards and everyone saw the results.

The OP is talking about demonologists who always seem to be casting out demons but no results. Nothing changes.

Well thats fair enough, I only expressed my views on what I know from my ministry.

Blessings.

 

[Elijah2]

Yes I agree. My remark was a joke. Demonologists, when questionned often react by calling their questionner a mocker spirit or jezebel spirit. Thats the context of my joke.

Mate, I realise that you were joking and I was joking back at you.