reason for creation

[ByTheSpirit]

So this is obviously very "extra-biblical" but before I begin what are the reasons given for creating the world and humans if God knew things would digress to where they are? This post is not about predestination or any significant theological issue, just to stir thought amongst us.

Now in Job we have a story about the "sons of God" coming together, and satan is one in that mix. Some people believe these "sons" are actually rulers of other created worlds in the universe. Much like satan is called the "god of this world" (2 Cor 4:4) and how he tells Jesus that all authority and splendor of the kingdoms of the world were his (presumably from the fall of Adam and Eve), these other "sons of God" were heads of other created worlds. Now I'm sure most know the story of lucifer's fall from heaven and if you don't the story goes that Lucifer led a rebellion against God with many angels and they were cast down, yadda yadda... But why would they do that if they knew God to be all love? I think the answer is found in the father of lies himself, satan. I think he went around telling all these other beings that God was just some tyrant who gave orders with no concern for His subjects and managed to convince the amount he did to follow him in rebellion to God. So after the rebellion, God, in order to prove His love, created the heavens and earth (mankind along with that) and allowed things to get where they are so He could sacrifice Himself to prove how much He loves all His beings. If He could give up so much for something that is so insignificant in comparison (I mean honestly we are nothing) then surely that would prove to the other heavenly beings that He cared for them too.

That is what I got. As I said definitely "extra-biblical" but that doesn't mean it's automatically false. The Bible is after all just a record of God's dealing with mankind and His plan to redeem us from our transgressions, it is not a definitive and exhaustive history record that has every minute thing that has happened throughout the millenia.

Let me know what you think, try to use some tact if you disagree or want to accuse me of heresy.

 

[Faulty]

There is plenty of speculation about an age of the angels before the age of men. Passages which may elude to that could include this one pertaining to Satan who walked on the "stones of fire" which could be an indication of other planets which appear that way in the sky.​

You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holymountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you.

In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.​

Ezek 28:14-16
​

Other speculations include a guess that the astriod belt in this system was actually a 5th planet destroyed by God as an act of judgment and that planet in referenced in scripture as 'Rahab'.

Awake, awake, put on strength,

O arm of the Lord;
awake, as in days of old,
the generations of long ago.
Was it not you who cut Rahab in pieces,
who pierced the dragon?​

Isaiah 51:9

You crushed Rahab like a carcass; you scattered your enemies with your mighty arm. The heavens are yours; the earth also is yours; the world and all that is in it, you have founded them.
Psalms 89:10-11
​

If it's true or not, I don't know, but I've become convinced that what we are reading in Genesis is not a six-day creation, but rather a six-day recreation. When this realization came to me, I recall wondering if I could make a biblical case that God would ever just recreate the earth, then I remembered that's exactly what He does at the end of the age of man, creating a new heavens and a new earth. It's very possible that wouldn't be the first time.

Of course that would bring up the thought that there was sin existing prior to the fall of man, which is reasonable since the serpent who tempted Eve had already fallen, we just don't know when.

It is interesting to note, that when one reads Isaiah 65:17, God states, "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind." He then proceeds to tell of that time of the new heavens and earth and makes an interesting statement in verse 20, "the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed". I have no idea why there would be a sinner there.

 

[ACWaller]

Be careful who you tell your secrets to though. Not everyone is ready to hear them and not many need to.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I'd like to rekindle this thread as well. Perhaps some others will contribute to it. Seems like it can be a rather fun discussion.

 

[like eagleswings]

He fell i believe,becuase he saw Gods plan to create man in his image,in his likness,and become the prominent feature of Gods great creation, lucifer being proud of his position became jelouse,being so high up, did not want this,and i recon was the start of the rebellion. imho


and yes, Reason for creation, Gods great plan, to share his love.and goodness, to have fellowship. i bet he has plans in eternety to do other things , that will be awsome. but for now we are in a war, and we gotta get people,to know Jesus,while there is time.

 

[ozarkview]

WRMR,
The 6 day creation is actually seven to eight. most likely each day representing 1000 years.The world is millions of years old however the bible teaches of 3 earth ages.
We are in the second, which is what the six day creation is...
We were all spiritual before flesh we were the same image and likeness as now. in the third earth age we will return to our spiritual body's.
Life in the flesh is a cleansing, sorting if you will to choose good over evil. God has supplied everything we need except our memory, including and especially Jesus Christ who is the truth way and life. It is now up to us with freedom to choose eternity free of sadness sin etc... or final death.

 

[Messy]

I believe GAP theory is true and God first created the angels and another world. When Lucifer fell, who lead the worship, 1/3 of the angels fell with him and the whole creation, which was destroyed and they turned into demons. Then He created this world with Adam and Eve with a salvation plan. The Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, I believe that is this world, not before He created the earth if you look at the Original words and I don't believe God foreknew that Lucifer and the rest would fall. What would be the use of creating such a world and then destroying it without a redemption plan? I believe God couldn't think of the possibility of darkness since He's Light and was innocent and didn't know good and evil first, 'cause knowing is knowing by experience and He only experienced evil when Lucifer fell, I believe He first was like Adam who was created in His Image. Just my theory. I looked on internet and found one guy who preaches this also.

 

[ozarkview]

I believe GAP theory is true and God first created the angels and another world. When Lucifer fell, who lead the worship, 1/3 of the angels fell with him and the whole creation, which was destroyed and they turned into demons. Then He created this world with Adam and Eve with a salvation plan. The Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, I believe that is this world, not before He created the earth if you look at the Original words and I don't believe God foreknew that Lucifer and the rest would fall. What would be the use of creating such a world and then destroying it without a redemption plan? I believe God couldn't think of the possibility of darkness since He's Light and was innocent and didn't know good and evil first, 'cause knowing is knowing by experience and He only experienced evil when Lucifer fell, I believe He first was like Adam who was created in His Image. Just my theory. I looked on internet and found one guy who preaches this also.

is there any threads on this forum devoted to this study?

 

[like eagleswings]

I believe GAP theory is true and God first created the angels and another world. When Lucifer fell, who lead the worship, 1/3 of the angels fell with him and the whole creation, which was destroyed and they turned into demons. Then He created this world with Adam and Eve with a salvation plan. The Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, I believe that is this world, not before He created the earth if you look at the Original words and I don't believe God foreknew that Lucifer and the rest would fall. What would be the use of creating such a world and then destroying it without a redemption plan? I believe God couldn't think of the possibility of darkness since He's Light and was innocent and didn't know good and evil first, 'cause knowing is knowing by experience and He only experienced evil when Lucifer fell, I believe He first was like Adam who was created in His Image. Just my theory. I looked on internet and found one guy who preaches this also.

which creation do you mean.

there was no sin or death in creation untill adam and eve fell. the bible does not say there was a creation before that on this earth.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Well just because the Bible doesn't mention something doesn't mean it didn't happen. Some interpret Genesis 1:2 and the surrounding text as a vague reference to a creation before ours. Just one view

 

[like eagleswings]

if the bible does not say it, then it did not happen. in respect to the subject of creation.

 

[ozarkview]

which creation do you mean.

there was no sin or death in creation untill adam and eve fell. the bible does not say there was a creation before that on this earth.

OK, do you know of any threads that study this, the reason being I see a lot of messiness pertaining to this, but I also see clear scripture. Sounds like it would help those who see bits and parts clarify things.
Yes I also agree no sin before Adam and Eve

and yes it does mention of two flesh creations... day 6 or day 6 and 8 not clear
here is just an example:[FONT=&quot]
27[/FONT] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
[FONT=&quot]28[/FONT] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen 1:27-28 (KJV)


do you see it? many people do..

[FONT=&quot]4[/FONT] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
[FONT=&quot]5[/FONT] And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. Gen 2:4-5 (KJV)

 

[ozarkview]

if the bible does not say it, then it did not happen. in respect to the subject of creation.

Good point, and I agree

[FONT=&quot]3[/FONT] And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. Gen 6:3 (KJV)
[FONT=&quot]9[/FONT] These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God
Gen 6:9 (KJV)
[FONT=&quot]13[/FONT] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen 6:13 (KJV)


[FONT=&quot]19[/FONT] And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
Gen 6:19 (KJV)

I could go on but I don't know if this is the correct place. I am new here but would love to be engaged over this. I never wanted to see this but I do....

 

[Messy]

if the bible does not say it, then it did not happen. in respect to the subject of creation.

Depends on the translation and interpretation.
The Bible, Genesis & Geology

 

[Messy]

is there any threads on this forum devoted to this study?

No, just some posts I made earlier:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7781979-2/#post64363522
Not many people that agreed with me and I can't find that one preacher on the internet anymore.

 

[ozarkview]

No, just some posts I made earlier:

Not many people that agreed with me and I can't find that one preacher on the internet anymore.

Thank you, I will look it over, a quick glance shows quite a bit to look at.

Do you know what forum would be the proper place to examine/explore this?

Thanks again..God Bless

 

[Messy]

Thank you, I will look it over, a quick glance shows quite a bit to look at.

Do you know what forum would be the proper place to examine/explore this?

Thanks again..God Bless

I don't know, I got questions on an atheist forum. They said God was bad 'cause He made satan and even if he first was an angel He made him with a flaw or He did it on purpose, so I had to think about giving them an answer myself.
Here's something I found, he has the same opinion:
Would Our God Create Lucifer Knowing He Becomes Satan? | Defrosting Windows
Was the provision of Jesus being slain, was it planned from the foundation of the world? Yes! Was it planned from before the creation of the angels? No. There was no provision for the angels because I don’t believe God ever planned, or believed His angels would turn against Him. That is partly why I believe that angels can’t be redeemed. But, now He knew that there was evil, and this time He made provision. That’s just my opinion.


This is about the pre Adamite world:
The PreAdamite World and Ancient Origin of Satan, AKA Lucifer or the Light Bearer

 

[ByTheSpirit]

The second link is interesting! I do disagree with the evolution part though unless I misread it

 

[ozarkview]

I don't know, I got questions on an atheist forum. They said God was bad 'cause He made satan and even if he first was an angel He made him with a flaw or He did it on purpose, so I had to think about giving them an answer myself.
Here's something I found, he has the same opinion:

Was the provision of Jesus being slain, was it planned from the foundation of the world? Yes! Was it planned from before the creation of the angels? No. There was no provision for the angels because I don’t believe God ever planned, or believed His angels would turn against Him. That is partly why I believe that angels can’t be redeemed. But, now He knew that there was evil, and this time He made provision. That’s just my opinion.


T

Well I can see there are quite a few that see this. in one form or another. The problem I see is trying to sort it, with out all the side tracking. I guess the way to go about it is create an outline why you believe what you do, with correct scriptures and ask for feedback from those that see. If they cannot see it, the comments will just be a distraction. wasn't meant for them. but if it doesnt fit it simply doesn't belong..

Pray for guidance and wisdom. Be clear in your thoughts and don't create things that are not there. Trust in Jesus and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you...

Maybe a mod could chime in as to where/sub forum this should be discussed...

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I see no reason to move the thread. This isnt an unorthodox subject... Perhaps a bit extra biblical but not much. I was merely looking to see what opinions were out there on the subject among my fellow brothers and sisters that share the same doctrine as me, mostly....