IV. Veneration / Honor of the Saints
Matt. 18:10 - the angels in heaven always behold the face of God. We venerate them for their great dignity and union with God.
This is not Scripture that supports veneration of angels, this is ScriptureCatholic's reason why they venerate angels.
Matt. 15:4; Luke 18:20; Eph. 6:2-3 Exodus 20:12; Lev. 19:3; Deut. 5:16 - we are instructed to honor our father and mother.
Yes, but what does that have to do with Scripture that supports veneration of statues?
Luke 1:28 - the angel Gabriel venerates Mary by declaring to her "Hail, full of grace." The heavenly angel honors the human Mary, for her perfection of grace exceeds that of the angels.
......the angel was right there talking to Mary.
Romans 13:7 - we are to give honor where honor is due. When we honor God's children, we honor God Himself, for He is the source of all honor.
Rom 13:1 ¶ Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 13:5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Rom 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
Rom 13:8 ¶ Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.
Rom 13:11 ¶ And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Rom 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to [fulfil] the lusts [thereof].
........this does not support 'veneration' of a statue, and the 'veneration' being passed onto the one in heaven the statue represents
- the most important form of veneration of the saints is "imitating" the saints, as Paul commands us to do.
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........this does not support 'veneration' of a statue, and the 'veneration' being passed onto the one in heaven the statue represents
1 Cor. 11:1 - again, Paul says, "Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ." The ultimate objective of veneration is imitation.
........this does not support 'veneration' of a statue, and the 'veneration' being passed onto the one in heaven the statue represents
Phil. 2:25-29 - Paul teaches us to honor Epaprhoditus who almost died for the faith. How much more honor is owed to the saints that did die for the faith!
Paul does not teach us any such thing, he was talking to people a way back then in Epaprhoditus's lifetime.
Phl 2:24 But I trust in the Lord that I also myself shall come shortly.
Phl 2:25 ¶ Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.
Phl 2:26 For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick.
Phl 2:27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.
Phl 2:28 I sent him therefore the more carefully, that, when ye see him again, ye may rejoice, and that I may be the less sorrowful.
Phl 2:29 Receive him therefore in the Lord with all gladness; and hold such in reputation:
Phl 2:30 Because for the work of Christ he was nigh unto death, not regarding his life, to supply your lack of service toward me.
Phil. 3:17 - Paul says to imitate him and others, which is the goal of veneration. Veneration is not worship.
That has nothing to do with 'venerating' statues and thinking whatever 'veneration' you give them will be passed onto the one it represents in Heaven.
1 Thess. 1:6 Paul says to the Thessalonians, You became imitators of us and of the Lord. This is the goal of veneration.
That has nothing to do with 'venerating' statues and thinking whatever 'veneration' you give them will be passed onto the one it represents in Heaven.
2 Thess. 3:7 - Paul says that the Thessalonians should imitate him and the other bishops.
Yes that is a good idea but...........That has nothing to do with 'venerating' statues and thinking whatever 'veneration' you give them will be passed onto the one it represents in Heaven.
Hebrews 3:3 - Jesus is worthy of "more" glory and honor than Moses. This does not mean that the saints are worthy of no glory and honor. Instead, it proves that saintly people are worthy of glory and honor out of God's goodness.
That has nothing to do with 'venerating' statues and thinking whatever 'veneration' you give them will be passed onto the one it represents in Heaven
Heb. 6:12 the author teaches us to be imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
What does being imitators of them have to do with venerating a statue?
Heb. 13:7 - we must imitate the faith of our faithful leaders. We ask for their intercession and venerate them for their holiness.
Hbr 13:1 ¶ Let brotherly love continue.
Hbr 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Hbr 13:3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; [and] them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.
Hbr 13:4 Marriage [is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Hbr 13:5 [Let your] conversation [be] without covetousness; [and be] content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Hbr 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord [is] my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
Hbr 13:7 ¶ Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of [their] conversation.
Hbr 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Hbr 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For [it is] a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
So what does this have to do with parading statues about and believing that whatever 'veneration' is given the statue is passed onto Heaven to them?
James 5:10-11 James teaches us to take heart in the examples of the prophets and Job, who endured suffering.
Yes, and why wouldn't we? But what does this have to do with supporting statue veneration?
1 Peter 2:17 - Peter teaches us to honor all men, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the emperor. Don't those living with Christ in heaven deserve honor? Catholics believe they do, and honor them with special feast days, just as we honor those living by celebrating their birthdays.
That does not support 'veneration' of statues.
Gen. 19:1 - Lot venerates the two angels in Sodom, bowing himself with his face to the ground.
Yes and Lot was also going to throw his two virgin daughters out to a mob that wanted to sleep with the angels as a replacement........i'll have a bit more faith that the angels can protect themselves and not follow Lot's example.....thanks.
Gen. 42:6 - Joseph's brothers bow before Joseph with the face to the ground. This is veneration, not worship.
Yes lets follow the example of Joseph's brothers and sell our siblings into slavery. So what does this have to do with bowing and kissing an old statue?
Exodus 28:2 - it is especially important to honor religious leaders. Sacred garments for Aaron give him dignity and honor.
.....that's nice but........
Lev. 19:32- we should also honor "the face of an old man." When the elderly die in Christ, we should continue honoring them, because death does not separate them from us or the love of Christ.
Lev 19:31 ¶ Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I [am] the LORD your God.
Lev 19:32 ¶ Thou shalt rise up before the hoary head, and honour the face of the old man, and fear thy God: I [am] the LORD.
........your interperetation of this verse has nothing to do with after death and they can hear you after death so 'venerate' them.
1 Sam. 28:14 - Saul bows down before Samuel with his face to the ground in veneration.
Saul........now there is one to follow
But still this has nothing to do with statue veneration.
2 Chron. 32:33 - Hezekiah was honored at his death. We honor our brothers and sisters in the Lord. Sir. 44:1-2 - we should praise and give honor to those who the Lord apportioned great glory. It is our family in Christ.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/saints.html
2Ch 32:33 And Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the chiefest of the sepulchres of the sons of David: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem did him honour at his death. And Manasseh his son reigned in his stead.
......what does this have to do with Biblical support to bowing at statues?
