Real vs fake Christian

James_Lai · Dec 24, 2021

Hello.
What really irks me is when Christians say well those aren’t real Christians. The real Christians seems to be in the same party with Yeti or Loch Ness monster… They are supposed to exist, but anybody you touch in history or today I’m told aren’t real Christians…

I totally understand people can be hypocritical and pretend to be Christian for whatever reasons, or one kind of Christians don’t consider other kinds of Christians really Christians, or people can genuinely misunderstand what it is to be Christian, etc etc many scenarios.

For you, who’s a real Christian? In general, and how would you judge who’s real and who’s not?

To me this is all quite strange, because often these judgements seem to me artificial and only an escape method to alleviate your group or your ideology of any responsibility… I do understand it’s a valid point to be taken seriously, but then there are reasonable ways to judge, you can’t have vague or flexible criteria so that when profitable for you, they are Christian yes, but when it’s not, they’re suddenly all fake.

Double standards. Shouldn’t we be objective and have a uniform approach in this matter?

d taylor · Dec 24, 2021

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A believer can not judge whether another person is a believers or not. As being a believer is not based on actions a person does.

About the only way to get an idea if a person is a believer, is by asking a direct question, something like this.

How does a person receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. Or How do you understand a person receives God's free gift of Eternal Life.

If they give any other answer than believing/trusting in The Messiah (Jesus) for God's free gift of Eternal Life. Then they may not understand what God requires of people, to receive receive His free gift.

Rachel20 · Dec 24, 2021

Hi, you might want to check this link out. It's related to your question.

His Hidden Ones

NBB · Dec 24, 2021

You can offend a brother saying people are not real christians you must be careful, however, even the bible talks about false 'brothers' and even apostles and prophets etc.

If you want to know what i think, i think a real christian could not believe in being filled with the Holy spirit as pentecostals do, i guess that doesn't make him/her fake, but the person is missing a lot not having this, we are half christians i would say if we don't get close to the HS.

As bad as some things happens in some 'pentecostal' 'churches', don't throw the 'baby with the bathwater' and understand that the idea of pentecostalism is correct even if some are not doing things correctly, we need to get filled like they say.
I have experience in this, is not only a theory or a bible interpretation, we need this badly as christians and opposing this will only harm you as christian.

Also i believe that churches that are not doing deliverance, i mean expulsing evil sprits and what not, are missing out a lot, because Jesus dealt with them all the time, the disciples and apostles dealt with them all the time, the bible talks about this all the time in the NT, is not like evil spirits went to sleep, no they are more active than ever.

eleos1954 · Dec 24, 2021

James_Lai said:
Hello.
What really irks me is when Christians say well those aren’t real Christians. The real Christians seems to be in the same party with Yeti or Loch Ness monster… They are supposed to exist, but anybody you touch in history or today I’m told aren’t real Christians…

I totally understand people can be hypocritical and pretend to be Christian for whatever reasons, or one kind of Christians don’t consider other kinds of Christians really Christians, or people can genuinely misunderstand what it is to be Christian, etc etc many scenarios.

For you, who’s a real Christian? In general, and how would you judge who’s real and who’s not?

To me this is all quite strange, because often these judgements seem to me artificial and only an escape method to alleviate your group or your ideology of any responsibility… I do understand it’s a valid point to be taken seriously, but then there are reasonable ways to judge, you can’t have vague or flexible criteria so that when profitable for you, they are Christian yes, but when it’s not, they’re suddenly all fake.

Double standards. Shouldn’t we be objective and have a uniform approach in this matter?

James_Lai said:
For you, who’s a real Christian? In general, and how would you judge who’s real and who’s not?

We are to gently confront erring brothers or sisters in Christ (Galatians 6:1).

Calling some one a "fake christian" doesn't support that principle.

Name calling?

Name calling is a form of abuse is insulting and is not the Christian way.

We all struggle in our walk and should encourage one another ,,, not call each other names.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 25, 2021

James_Lai said:
Hello.
What really irks me is when Christians say well those aren’t real Christians. The real Christians seems to be in the same party with Yeti or Loch Ness monster… They are supposed to exist, but anybody you touch in history or today I’m told aren’t real Christians…

I totally understand people can be hypocritical and pretend to be Christian for whatever reasons, or one kind of Christians don’t consider other kinds of Christians really Christians, or people can genuinely misunderstand what it is to be Christian, etc etc many scenarios.

For you, who’s a real Christian? In general, and how would you judge who’s real and who’s not?

To me this is all quite strange, because often these judgements seem to me artificial and only an escape method to alleviate your group or your ideology of any responsibility… I do understand it’s a valid point to be taken seriously, but then there are reasonable ways to judge, you can’t have vague or flexible criteria so that when profitable for you, they are Christian yes, but when it’s not, they’re suddenly all fake.

Double standards. Shouldn’t we be objective and have a uniform approach in this matter?

Ever read Matthew 7:21-23 lately?
How about Matthew 13:41-42?
What do make of 2 Corinthians 13:5?
What about Ephesians 5:11?
What is your view of Jude 1:4-5?
What about Revelation 2:2?

Martinius · Dec 25, 2021

James_Lai said:
For you, who’s a real Christian? In general, and how would you judge who’s real and who’s not?

I have and do say that there are few "Christians" in the world in the sense that most people do not follow the teachings and example of Jesus in the Gospels. Most of us fail in several ways. But I try not to say any one particular person is not Christian since I don't know anyone well enough to say that. I will not judge them as individuals. But conditions in the world, including where there is a majority Christian population, indicates that in a group sense we are very weak in terms of living the faith Christians profess.

I CAN state that particular persons I have known were great disciples of Jesus. I have known this not just by what they have said or done, but also by a feeling I get about and from them. Mostly about their attitude toward others and toward life.

If I were to list those people that I would place in the category of "great disciples", some would be Catholics, but others would be Lutheran or Baptist or some other Christian faith...or none at all.

I don't think it benefits anyone to judge other individuals. Leave it to God.

Sketcher · Dec 26, 2021

There are certain actions that in and of themselves, deny the faith. One example:

"But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." - 1 Timothy 5:8

This is someone who could work and provide for his relatives in need, but won't. Not someone who is unable to work for health reasons, or who cannot find work. We're talking about something worse than laziness, a coldness that says to his own family "I don't care if you die."

That's pretty serious, but I can think of a few more crimes that are more serious than that which would logically, also deny the faith.

timf · Dec 26, 2021

For you, who’s a real Christian? In general, and how would you judge who’s real and who’s not?

There are not perhaps as many intentionally fraudulent Christians today as the financial advantages to simulate Christianity have almost all disappeared.

The next category would be those who are mistaken about being Christian. These often show sincerity about their faith, but seem to fall short of actual salvation. These might include heritage Christians who inherit a tradition but have no heartfelt investment in trusting in Christ. Other might be those who trust in what they have done or how they conduct themselves. There are a number of reasons a person can be mistaken.

Another category would be those who might be Christian but walk in the flesh. It is difficult to distinguish between these and the unsaved.

Those who declare they are Christians but seem dormant or otherwise unaffected by their Christian profession, I would exhort to bible study and the pursuit of Christian growth and maturity.

Those who declare they are Christian but bully, accuse, manipulate, or otherwise conduct themselves offensively, I try to ignore and avoid.

Those who declare they are Christian and are interested in biblical possibilities and learning, I try to cultivate that I might learn from their studies, and they might learn from mine.

LovebirdsFlying · Dec 26, 2021

The Apostle Paul drew an analogy in Romans 2:28-29 that I think demonstrates the point very well. The analogy discusses Jews, but it can apply just as much to this question. A true Jew, Paul said, is one inwardly, whether or not he has been through the outward ritual of circumcision. If a man is circumcised but has no relationship with God, then the action is worthless and doesn't make him a true Jew at all. By contrast, a man who is faithful to God in his heart will be counted among the chosen, whether or not he has been circumcised.

In the same way, a true Christian is one on the inside, regardless of whatever external markers exist or don't. Going to church doesn't make you a Christian. Reading the Bible doesn't make you a Christian. Having been baptized doesn't make you a Christian. Wearing cross-shaped jewelry or t-shirts with religious slogans doesn't make you a Christian. Only the blood of Jesus Christ, and how it transforms you from the inside out, makes you a Christian. The outward behaviors follow from there.

And how do we know what's going on inside a person? Galatians 5:22-23, the fruit of the Spirit--love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control--can serve as evidence, but this is not all or nothing. Actions can be misunderstood, people may define those terms in different ways, plus the fact that even those who are Christians will sometimes slip up and not display that fruit properly. These erring Christians, we hope, will get down on their knees and ask God for forgiveness for having been wrong, and also ask for the wisdom and grace to grow in the ways of Christ so they get it right next time.

So, bottom line is we really DON'T know what's happening on the inside of another person, and nobody but the Lord is in a position to judge who is or isn't a real Christian.

Martinius · Dec 26, 2021

Yes, we can think of categories of people who do not fit the (your or my?) definition of Christian. It is more difficult to classify people on an individual basis, since we don't know what's in their hearts and minds.

The true signs of a Christian are internal, but should then make their presence felt externally. The argument over faith vs. works has been going for centuries, but a reading of the Gospels tells us that it is both. Having faith without love and charity is incomplete, and donating to charities without treating individuals as your brother/sister/neighbor is also incomplete. To me a better word than "works" would be "actions", since it is clear that Jesus asks us to take action, first by changing our lives and then by doing things that show that are lives are changed.

Those that I have been able to identify as truly Christian have demonstrated deep faith and have lived that faith through their acts and words. For everyone else I can't judge them, nor should I judge them. We leave that to God.

ViaCrucis · Dec 26, 2021

James_Lai said:
Hello.
What really irks me is when Christians say well those aren’t real Christians. The real Christians seems to be in the same party with Yeti or Loch Ness monster… They are supposed to exist, but anybody you touch in history or today I’m told aren’t real Christians…

I totally understand people can be hypocritical and pretend to be Christian for whatever reasons, or one kind of Christians don’t consider other kinds of Christians really Christians, or people can genuinely misunderstand what it is to be Christian, etc etc many scenarios.

For you, who’s a real Christian? In general, and how would you judge who’s real and who’s not?

To me this is all quite strange, because often these judgements seem to me artificial and only an escape method to alleviate your group or your ideology of any responsibility… I do understand it’s a valid point to be taken seriously, but then there are reasonable ways to judge, you can’t have vague or flexible criteria so that when profitable for you, they are Christian yes, but when it’s not, they’re suddenly all fake.

Double standards. Shouldn’t we be objective and have a uniform approach in this matter?

There is a problem with the use of the No True Scotsman argument.

And that's where most of the "not a real Christian" statements tend to originate.

There can be other reasons for trying to make a distinction, and that's religious/theological. For example here on Christian Forums the "Christians Only" is limited to Christians who confess the Nicene Creed; thus anyone who rejects the Nicene Creed (or any part of it) is, per the rules of this website, not a Christian--regardless of whether they identify as such. This isn't really peculiar to Christian Forums, it's actually the general consensus among the majority of denominations and traditions. Confession of the Nicene Creed is what makes Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Methodists, etc recognize one another as definitively Christian. But, for example, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other non-Trinitarian groups are considered as outside of the Christian faith, and regarded as unbelievers.

There really isn't any one size fits all, universally accepted definition that satisfies all parties. If there were, there wouldn't be any of the divisions that we see. But there are general boundaries that can at times get fuzzy, but which generally presents the orthodox mainstream. And the Nicene Creed is a fantastic starting point on what that consensus looks like.

-CryptoLutheran

Real vs fake Christian

James_Lai

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d taylor

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Rachel20

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NBB

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eleos1954

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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Martinius

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Sketcher

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timf

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LovebirdsFlying

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Martinius

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ViaCrucis

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