REAL FIRE, or STRANGE FIRE?

[Biblicist]

A Final Appeal to Pastor John MacArthur on the Eve of His 'Strange Fire' Conference
JOHN MACARTHUR, STRANGE FIRE, AND BLASPHEMY OF THE SPIRIT - Voice of Revolution

Messy, I will add in my thanks as well as that was a very informative article. It does add to the incredible amount of evidence that MacArthur is simply another charlatan ministry - someone who has for decades been one of the major proponents of 'strange-fire'.

 

[murjahel]

As expected, since John MacArthur is a cessationist, and I am the opposite, there are things in his conference that I totally disagree with.

Their accepting of the Word of God to be the guiding rule for our lives, true and sufficient to explain God's plan, is great. I agree with that. We do disagree on the fact that in the Scripture the revelation of power gifts for us. I believe the Bible is clear on that fact of Spiritual gifts still here for us, and they do not...



There are still active gifts of the Spirit in operation in the faith, and I have witnessed, and experienced far more than I could have ever dreamed or hoped.

I have seen the Holy Spirit raise the dead, heal the sick, fill with gifts of power. So, talk about those gifts ceasing at the end of the 'apostolic age' do not phase me... I know better...


Acts 2:38-39 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.



The GIFTS of the Spirit are still working GIFTS today. The Holy Spirit sends and operates the gifts through the saints.


I Cor. 12:28
"GOD HATH SET SOME IN THE CHURCH, FIRST APOSTLES, SECONDARILY PROPHETS..."

Eph. 4:8, 11, 12 "WHEN HE ASCENDED UP ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE AND GAVE GIFTS UNTO MEN... FOR THE PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, FOR THE EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST, TILL WE ALL COME INTO THE UNITY OF THE FAITH..."

The Holy Spirit gives gifts of miraculous power to help the saints do the work of the Lord. Healings, and miracles, bestowments of faith, are miraculous power received from the Spirit of God, and we are only tools of the Spirit in the process.

I Cor. 12:4
"NOW THERE ARE VARIETIES OF GIFTS, BUT THE SAME SPIRIT..."

The GIFTS of the Spirit are divine endowments of special power for service in the body of Christ. These are God-given abilities, strengths, and divine endowments. They are not natural talents.

Natural talents are given of God through genetics. Talents are received at birth. Talents should be dedicated to God for His use. However, the gifts of the Spirit are given of God, independent of the parents.

They are received at conversion, or later. They are to be used as God directs. The gifts are not talents already present, that now must be increased. The gifts are not more of what was already present. The gifts of the Spirit are not enhancements.

The gifts are not received from schooling or training. The gifts are endowments of the supernatural. They are manifestations of the Spirit as He works through the saint as His vessel.


Four words are used in the Greek to refer to the gifts.
　
1. Charismata
This refers to them being gifts of God's love and mercy.
( I Pet. 4:10, Rom. 12:6, I Cor. 12:4,9, 28,30,31)

2. Pneumatikos
This emphasizes that they are gifts that proceed from the Holy Spirit.
(I Cor. 14:1)

3. Phanerosis
This word emphasizes that they are a manifestation of the Spirit.
(I Cor. 12:9, II Cor. 4:2)

4. Domata
This word stresses the reality of the gift, rather that the beneficial nature of the gift.
(Lk. 11:13, Eph. 4:8, Mt. 7:11)
　
These gifts cannot be earned, they are freely given of God to His children. These gifts are a manifestation, a showing forth, a making visible of the power and workings of God. The focus of the exercise of the gifts is not on the Holy Spirit, nor on the person the is operating the gift. The focus of the gifts are to be on the magnifying and glorifying of Jesus Christ.

John MacArthur seems to not see the passages we see, seems to interpret some things based on his past upbringing... We have been attacked on the gifts for ages, and yet, we still know the power of God is for our age still.

John MacArthur has seen the charismania of some who defile the 'gifts' of the Spirit with 'strange fire'. We know there is strange fire too, and this thread is dealing with the Bible's answers about strange fire.

For 'cessationists' to see strange fire makes them even more adamant in their 'cessationist' views. That is a shame. If he only could witness the true miracles, could see only honest and Biblically consistent teaching coming from the Pentecostal movement, it would be irresistible to join in reception of the true gifts. The scams, hoaxes and deceptions of the few charismaniacs in the world today, make the real Pentecostal movement to be easily unnoticed.

We, as Pentecostals, should stand up against the scams in the 'charismatic' movement, rebuke them, teach the truth against their heretical and hypocritical presentations. I have been in the Pentecostal movement for many decades, and have a history family wise long before my own. I have witnessed in the Pentecostal movement miracles beyond count. These were verifiable, true, not hoax type of miracles. I have taught, preached, and written on the real, and exposed the errant and evil.


Simon magus was the charismaniac of the early church. Down through the ages, more and more 'fakes' have imitated the real. Libertines in the time of Calvin corrupted the move in that day. Jim Jones illustrated the evil a few years back. There are a few today, who shame us, claiming to be Spirit filled, when actually, it is 'spirit' with a small 's' that is in control.

I can understand why it will be hard to win John MacArthur to Pentecostal understanding of the Bible, the false has been so vocal, so visible, so horrible, so blatantly defiant of the true revelation of Scripture.

Our signs, wonders, miracles, healings, are real and more powerful than the magical, trickster hoaxes of today's Simon magus'. We need to rebuke the hoaxers, and not depend on a cessationist to do our job of housecleaning our own house.

 

[jiminpa]

To a cessationist anything God's Spirit does appears to be strange fire, so for a cessationist to see strange fire is what I expect of them and of some on this forum. To see a move of Satan where God is moving because jon macarthur says so is just ridiculous. Of course he criticizes anything God is doing, look at the money and fame it gets him. Telling people to just read their own Bibles doesn't sell a lot of books, conference tickets or radio time, and doesn't fill the live, (if you can call an audience too ignorant of the Bible to walk out on macarthur's blasphemies alive), studio audience spots in the audio recording studio he calls a church.

 

[murjahel]

The least likely ones to be able to discern fake miracles, fake moves of the Spirit, are those who have no gift of discernment, as Spirit filled saints can be gifted with... Yet, when cessationists see the fake, and can prove it is not the real, while continuists are sitting there with veils still keeping them from seeing the false, it is shameful.

I am not a cessationist, and fakeness has been bothering me for decades.. I have seen many fakes in the pulpits... The Pentecostal faith is rising up to clean their own house... and the cessationists should not be shaming us by trying to do it themselves.

We can do the revealing of the fakes by Spiritual discernment, and by testing by the Word of God... the cessationists do not have the discernment, so they are only armed with half the weapons as we have... It is one thing when they claim it is not real, because no real exists in their belief, but when they can claim it is unreal due to other real proof, it shames those with veils claiming things are legitimate.

One more thing, when the Holy Spirit is tired of the shams, He seems to lift the veil of deception and reveal the sin. The whole world mocks the Pentecostals, when the fake among us are exposed. We saw that with a number of 'charismatic' leaders over the last 5 decades... We know the list of them, and to think that the Holy Spirit will not do it again, is naïve.

I know that there are real gifts of the Holy Spirit, have been used with them many times over the years. I hate it that some will disbelieve they are even possible, for a cessationist had to uncover the fake in our camps.

 

[jiminpa]

Holy flip-flopping, Batman.

 

[murjahel]

It is a shame it is done by a cessationist... but... it is like the old saying...
"I like the way I do it better than the way you don't do it'.

and can John MacArthur say that to us, for having failed to police our own movement... and allowing, condoning, blessing, supporting those who blaspheme the true message of God... ???

This thread is not based on anything John MacArthur has said, for I have not read his book,

The book is on order, for I will want to see what he has to say.

I am and have stated over and over, responding here about what the Bible says about 'strange fire'... and discussing the sin of Nadab and Abihu, and seeing if there are other references to it in church history.

.... John MacArthur may do the same, we will find out... He may name names... and it has a lot of people scared into great anger on even mentioning his name.

John MacArthur is being mentioned now, for his conference starts tomorrow. When I was accused of quoting him in my early posts, I could not have been, for I do not know what he has to say.

If he speaks similar words, then I will feel he is in agreement with the Word of God, for that is what I have been trying to write herein, i.e. what the Word of God says. If he varies or disagrees what I have written here, my judgment will be he is errant from the Word of God... for 'AGAIN' this is an expose on what the Bible says about 'strange fire'.

...If I found that John MacArthur preaches strange fire, I will expose it... if he finds strange fire in the charismatic camp, I will agree with God that it is wrong there too.

I will await the expose of John MacArthur, will test it by the Word, and if truth is found in it, I will pray for the strange fire charlatans to repent from the strange fire sins...

If I find it untruthful from John MacArthur, I will pray for his repentance...

So, no this is not a rehearsal for his words.. I am not a cessationist, I am a charismatic believer that goes by the Word of God... Some read the attack on Mike Warnke without questioning who said it..
..

I expect an apology... I did not quote John MacArthur... I wrote this all myself, I have not read his book, I do not know what he is going to expose, I do not know how hard he is going to be on charismatics... I do not know if he is going to evaluate a few charismatics who have spoken strange fire' and make us all guilty of that sin, or blame only the ones who did the sin... I did not name it after his conference, I named it after the words in the Bible.. the words 'strange fire' came from the Bible, not from him. He found the words in the Bible in the same place as I did. If we interpret them in the same way, we will find out...

There is strange fire in the cessationist camp, and it is time he addresses that too, we should not have to... Some in the cessationist camp preach that one can be saved, and then become a mass murderer, and never repent again, but still go to heaven... that is wrong, and needs addressed in their camp.

What I am complaining of in this thread is that John MacArthur needs to address the 'strange fire' in our camp... we need to quit condoning what is totally un-Scriptural, totally con jobs by charlatans in our camp.

When we get things right in our camp, we can reveal the 'strange fire' in the cessationists camp... maybe by that time, our proper example will encourage them to do the same there...

..

Some people never read a post, or are unable to understand what I write... for I have not flip flopped... am still saying the same thing from beginning to now... John MacArthur and I have not agreed on much... but I did a study here on what the Bible says of 'strange fire' so I can 'with knowledge' judge what he has to say... I am still waiting for the book, it will arrive soon, and I can verify what he has to say. I know there will be much to disagree upon, because I am not, never have been, a cessationist.

I would like a cessation from the fake miracles some hoaxers are perpetrating in some congregations though... I have witnessed some of them myself, so it is not a question if there is some of that, it is time to denounce the simon magus of today... we need to be a church without spot or wrinkle... after we handle the shameful hoaxes of strange fire in our circles, we might be more appealing to cessationists... Right now, they are laughing at the simon magus magic trick miracles some promote...

 

[probinson]

Holy flip-flopping, Batman.

You ain't kiddin', Jim.

In post #13 of this thread, paragraph 3, the OP said in no uncertain terms that this was not going to be a place to discuss John MacArthur. Yet the thread has been little more than a discussion about how John MacArthur was the only one bold enough to "expose" this strange fire, and how shameful it is that it took an outsider to address it. Of course, another poster already pointed out that J. Lee Grady wrote an article in Charisma magazine on the topic of "Strange Fire", nearly 4 years ago, but that's apparently no reason to stop praising John MacArthur for holding this conference.

Worse still, the implication is that it's our own fault that cessationists are cessationists. If only we'd meet John MacArthur's exacting standards, perhaps we'd be more "appealing" to him. That's complete and total nonsense. John MacArthur's cessationism has little to do with "strange fire". It has to do with the fact that he does not believe that God does anything.

 

[Andrea411]

Some people never read a post, or are unable to understand what I write... for I have not flip flopped... am still saying the same thing from beginning to now... John MacArthur and I have not agreed on much... but I did a study here on what the Bible says of 'strange fire' so I can 'with knowledge' judge what he has to say... I am still waiting for the book, it will arrive soon, and I can verify what he has to say. I know there will be much to disagree upon, because I am not, never have been, a cessationist.

I would like a cessation from the fake miracles some hoaxers are perpetrating in some congregations though... I have witnessed some of them myself, so it is not a question if there is some of that, it is time to denounce the simon magus of today... we need to be a church without spot or wrinkle... after we handle the shameful hoaxes of strange fire in our circles, we might be more appealing to cessationists... Right now, they are laughing at the simon magus magic trick miracles some promote...

Murjahel...I have not seen you flip flop. I do at times have a hard time following such long threads.... although bc you do so much work and research I try to read them through....

My take on the 'charlatan' Pentecostals is different then yours.... counterfeits only counterfeit something of value. No one counterfeits J.MacArthurs theology bc he looks just like the rest of the world. (maybe a little more uptight) When I prayed a few years ago.... bc I was very disturbed by these thieves and adulterers of His word... the Lord showed me that these people were spreading His word out of selfish ambition and greed, but the gospel was still being spread. Example TBN... I don't think they are all bad but the bad ones are there.... this TV outlet goes around the world to places we could never get a foot in the door. They go into their living rooms.... Pink haired lady ?? IDK!! what I do know is these people have gotten fabulously wealthy but what is that to me?? Let them. They have gotten more people saved then I have.... so how can I knock it. If they do it for greed... the gospel goes forth and the power of the gospel is the Word made flesh, not me and not TBN. The Lord can use the jawbone of an ass or a pink haired lady.... He can also stop them, it is not up to us to police His church... we police our own selves, encourage our churches and teach our own to discern....
if people send money to these people it is sad, but they do it so they will get more money.... they may as well go to a casino. If their hearts are right, the Lord sees and knows.
I think J.M. is making a huge mistake bc he is attacking the very church that is spreading revival around the globe.... he thinks it is a false religion.
In my prayer meetings we have calvinists, baptists, Catholics, non-denoms but what we have in common is we are all charismatic/Spirit-filled... the other stuff (theological differences) only comes up in conversation, when we are in prayer we are united as one body of believers. It is powerful and it is edifying... our praise and worship is so pure.... for someone like J.M. to call it unacceptable or detestable worship is hideous... he could not know our hearts. God loves a humble heart, and worship from our whole being, loving with all our hearts, minds and souls...I have no doubt that the gifts are operating bc I see the fruit of the Spirit in our lives..... I can only feel sorry for those that are hurt by his teachings, but they too must seek and find. How anyone can stay in those cold dead churches IDK. (not saying all churches have to move in the gifts, many could and are afraid bc of poor teaching).
You like to teach, I would appreciate more teaching on the proper way to share our giftings, and discern the fruit... not the focus counterfeits... we have nothing to learn from them but to be careful, prayerful and use discernment. If we don't have discernment go find someone who does.
God bless, andrea

 

[bushinoki]

Andrea, we have to be careful of strange fire. Yes, there are the handful that do find the Gospel through such charlatans, but there are many who are badly harmed by their preaching and false miracles. To be clear, I am not a cessationist. However, the history of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements can not be glossed over. When the two movements were first growing, they were surrounded by controversy, and have had plenty of controversy since.

The one thing that traditional fundamentalist denominations have is a propensity for theology. The charismatic side needs to push much greater theological understanding. All too often, we charismatics/pentecostals come across as seeking "extrabiblical" revelation, when we should compare everything to scripture. Also, the fact that a visitor can walk into many Pentecostal/Charismatic churches and pick out who will be the vociferous ones when it comes to spiritual gifts before the service really undercuts our credibility.

 

[Andrea411]

Andrea, we have to be careful of strange fire. Yes, there are the handful that do find the Gospel through such charlatans, but there are many who are badly harmed by their preaching and false miracles. To be clear, I am not a cessationist. However, the history of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements can not be glossed over. When the two movements were first growing, they were surrounded by controversy, and have had plenty of controversy since.

The one thing that traditional fundamentalist denominations have is a propensity for theology. The charismatic side needs to push much greater theological understanding. All too often, we charismatics/pentecostals come across as seeking "extrabiblical" revelation, when we should compare everything to scripture. Also, the fact that a visitor can walk into many Pentecostal/Charismatic churches and pick out who will be the vociferous ones when it comes to spiritual gifts before the service really undercuts our credibility.

you do know how controversial Jesus is?? and the day of Pentecost caused quite a stir.... not a few have been saved bc of these charlatans.... TBN covers the globe and goes into almost every country, many that would never allow a bible to enter.... they are having quite a problem in many muslim countries bc of people being saved. Its so messy having to imprison them or kill them.... these people are saved in a way that we can not imagine.... Paul was very clear.... whether bc of selfish ambition or greed, he rejoiced that the gospel was preached. If someone better could go around the world -- go for it.
whosoever calls out to the Lord he will answer.... they must first hear and the church can not get their act together enough to have a TV station that goes around the world, but some pink haired lady with a questionable husband have managed to do it.... probably bc they stopped arguing over who had the best gospel and who made the fewest mistakes and who had the best pedigree..... bunch of fools!!!!!! millions of people are being saved and all you can do is talk about how wrong their theology is?????? Talk about the blind leading the blind. Get over yourselves and become one..... that only happens when you forget about yourselves and your own ideologies and think about Jesus.... Holy Spirit come.... when you are in the Spirit their is no denomination but Christ!!!

my apologies its not you I'm ranting at... its the whole thing.... I cry, my heart breaks bc WE ...His church will not come together bc of our own pride... David said he would humiliate himself before the Lord.... so if these people do that... what is that to you.
.........
2 Samuel6
20 When David returned home to bless his household, Michal daughter of Saul came out to meet him and said, “How the king of Israel has distinguished himself today, going around half-naked in full view of the slave girls of his servants as any vulgar fellow would!”

21 David said to Michal, “It was before the Lord, who chose me rather than your father or anyone from his house when he appointed me ruler over the Lord’s people Israel—I will celebrate before the Lord. 22 I will become even more undignified than this, and I will be humiliated in my own eyes. But by these slave girls you spoke of, I will be held in honor.”

23 And Michal daughter of Saul had no children to the day of her death.

 

[Biblicist]

. . .The one thing that traditional fundamentalist denominations have is a propensity for theology. The charismatic side needs to push much greater theological understanding. All too often, we charismatics/pentecostals come across as seeking "extrabiblical" revelation, when we should compare everything to scripture. Also, the fact that a visitor can walk into many Pentecostal/Charismatic churches and pick out who will be the vociferous ones when it comes to spiritual gifts before the service really undercuts our credibility.

Up until the early 80’s the non-Pentecostal and charismatic component of the church had an almost iron-fisted hold on theology, but by the end of the 80’s the tide had definitely turned. During the mid 80’s a lot of scholarly writings that supported the Full Gospel came onto the market, both by Pentecostals and charismatics but also by a number of scholars who were deemed not to be either Pentecostal or charismatic but who were “open but cautious”; these scholars started writing on the Holy Spirit and especially with his Spiritual Manifestations as their congregational members started asking them questions.

By the mid 90’s, any scholar who dared to present a hard line cessationist position was generally deemed to be a bit of a dinosaur.

 

[Messy]

I saw a program on tv, there are really charlatans who are so willingly and admit it and show how they do it, for the money, they don't even believe in God.
One had a deliverance ministry, the people in the church thought he was a good pastor. He was an atheist.

 

[Biblicist]

I saw a program on tv, there are really charlatans who are so willingly and admit it and show how they do it, for the money, they don't even believe in God.
One had a deliverance ministry, the people in the church thought he was a good pastor. He was an atheist.

You might want to take a look at some of the videos that were produced by one of the earlier charlatans from the 70's by the name of Marjoe Gortner, I would not be surprised that one or two supposed tele-evangelists have used his videos as training material.

 

[jiminpa]

I was in a cessationist church for a few years, and the doctrine they are the strongest in is directly opposed to the Bible, so how can anyone claim that they are stronger in doctrine? They think they are the arbiters of orthodoxy and sound doctrine, but they testify on their own behalf.

I have been attacked by cessationists, (at one point relentlessly), and dug deeper into the scriptures and became more sure that the Charismatic movement is far more doctrinally sound than any other, assuming that the Bible is the standard for sound doctrine. Now if Jonathan Edwards, John Calvin, or John MacArthur are the standard for sound doctrine then Charisma and the Bible both fall short. Even the semi-cessationists, (which some on this forum advocate), that say that the gifts haven't officially ended but God doesn't really distribute them anymore don't have scriptural support for their position and are relegated to denying that God is not a respecter of persons. The sermons in a cessationist or semi-cessationist church spend far more time on human doctrine than in the scriptures, but every Charismatic church I have been to spends far more time in the scripture than on elaboration. In the Charismatic churches the scripture is key and the other parts of the sermon are supporting anecdote and application of the scripture. Reformed theology is human doctrine with cherry picked scripture to seem to support the teachings of the human theologies. They even call exhaustive topical studies poor technique. Why would trying to flesh out the whole context of the Bible on a subject be a poor study if you didn't have something to hide and know it?

So I call BS on the premise that cessationism is stronger in theology. BTW, they are weak in the Biblical fundamentals too, so they aren't even really fundamentalists.

This whole premise of strange fire as a contemporary problem calls God a liar when He says that if we ask him for a fish He won't give us a serpent, and how much more will He give us the Holy Spirit.

So keep sowing doubt in God, but I can't grow enough in my trust in Him. So what if their are fakers out there? That doesn't give me the authority to tell God's Spirit how far beyond my little box He can go. "Oh God, that seems strange to me keep that gift to Yourself." That's not holiness. It's rebellion! fueled by a lack of trust in God. To elevate that refusal to accept God's leadership to the status of virtue, well I can't condemn it strongly enough. I can't answer for others, but I know that I put my trust in God for what He is doing with His own Spirit. I know that the Bible is pretty harsh about judging another man's servant. So we had better have scripture identifying what they are doing as sin before we decide what God is allowed to do in them.

 

[murjahel]

Murjahel...I have not seen you flip flop. I do at times have a hard time following such long threads.... although bc you do so much work and research I try to read them through....

...for someone like J.M. to call it unacceptable or detestable worship is hideous... he could not know our hearts. ...

You like to teach, I would appreciate more teaching on the proper way to share our giftings, and discern the fruit... not the focus counterfeits... we have nothing to learn from them but to be careful, prayerful and use discernment. If we don't have discernment go find someone who does.
God bless, andrea

No, even in the original post, I said that I wanted to discuss what the Bible said about 'strange fire'... then some 60 + posts later began to incorrectly say I was quoting JM... I pointed out that I was not quite a few times, and said, as I had in the orig posts that I wanted to be ready for when his book came out, to know what the Bible says.

Plus, I often have pointed out that I could not agree with JM on cessationism, and this is not a thread on cessationism, it is obvious I disagree with him on those points, and a short few weeks ago, I finished up a thread here on the Holy Spirit and His gifts... probably far longer than this thread... so I have talked on the gifts, their exercise.

Now, that I am quite a way along on the 'strange fire topic, it is time to evaluate what J.M said on that... if some want to discuss cessationism, that is another topic thread... here, I want to discuss the strange fire that he saw, that I found, that is obvious to many in the world, in the charismatic movement. I have done as I proposed in the beginning of the thread, and now I will evaluate his charges against the charismatics, and see if what the Bible says we should do about them.

If some of you want to discuss cessationism, that is great, I am against it too... but I am not for strange fire, just because I believe in the gifts...

We could discuss cessationism for decades, and still all agree that the gifts do continue... what some seem mad here about is the definition of 'strange fire'... even J.M. would call me speaking in tongues to be strange fire.. but there is more that is true about 'strange fire' in the charismatic movement. Dishonest, scams, fake miracles, lies, deceit, etc are not part of my charismatic experience, nor does the Bible condone that, and we had better clean up our side... Continuism would look far more appealing to many others if it were minus the strange fire in it...

 

[Biblicist]

I was in a cessationist church for a few years, and the doctrine they are the strongest in is directly opposed to the Bible, so how can anyone claim that they are stronger in doctrine? They think they are the arbiters of orthodoxy and sound doctrine, but they testify on their own behalf.

I have been attacked by cessationists, (at one point relentlessly), and dug deeper into the scriptures and became more sure that the Charismatic movement is far more doctrinally sound than any other, assuming that the Bible is the standard for sound doctrine. Now if Jonathan Edwards, John Calvin, or John MacArthur are the standard for sound doctrine then Charisma and the Bible both fall short. Even the semi-cessationists, (which some on this forum advocate), that say that the gifts haven't officially ended but God doesn't really distribute them anymore don't have scriptural support for their position and are relegated to denying that God is not a respecter of persons. The sermons in a cessationist or semi-cessationist church spend far more time on human doctrine than in the scriptures, but every Charismatic church I have been to spends far more time in the scripture than on elaboration. In the Charismatic churches the scripture is key and the other parts of the sermon are supporting anecdote and application of the scripture. Reformed theology is human doctrine with cherry picked scripture to seem to support the teachings of the human theologies. They even call exhaustive topical studies poor technique. Why would trying to flesh out the whole context of the Bible on a subject be a poor study if you didn't have something to hide and know it?

So I call BS on the premise that cessationism is stronger in theology. BTW, they are weak in the Biblical fundamentals too, so they aren't even really fundamentalists.

You've nailed it, in that their friequent bluster is not so much about theology but about a doctrine which supports a system of unbelief.

 

[Biblicist]

. . .Now, that I am quite a way along on the 'strange fire topic, it is time to evaluate what J.M said on that... if some want to discuss cessationism, that is another topic thread... here, I want to discuss the strange fire that he saw, that I found, that is obvious to many in the world, in the charismatic movement. I have done as I proposed in the beginning of the thread, and now I will evaluate his charges against the charismatics, and see if what the Bible says we should do about them. . .

You've started a great thread about some very important issues but you seem to be killing it with the constant references to johhnymac.

 

[murjahel]

it is time to close this thread, for it is not a discussion of 'strange fire', nor on John MacArthur...

We probably all agree that cessationism is wrong... so we do not need a thread of attack on cessationists, and I do not need to have people attack me calling me one when dozens of ways have proven I am not...

I will open other threads quickly on a 'letter to John MacArthur,' where I will discuss what I feel about his charges of strange fire, comparing it to what I already revealed here about what the Bible says about it...

and I may start another similar thread on the 'strange fire' setters, the Nadab and Abihu's of the charismatic movement...

cessationism is strange fire too... but that is another thread topic someone else may start, I think we already agree on that... it is not Biblical, and yet, it is not a strange fire that is being promoted here and in our charismatic churches, so I do not want to argue it...

this thread was on 'what does the Bible say about strange fire?' I have shown that... some still want their heads in the sand over it, but I did not, we do need to expose strange fire, and put it out where we can...

 

[A New Dawn]

Thread closed at the request of the OP.