- Jul 8, 2019
- 3,657
- 893
- 56
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Married
Well, I still believe in individual rights over duty to a society. The latter leads to dictatorial governments
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Well, I still believe in individual rights over duty to a society. The latter leads to dictatorial governmentsThose are actually the more "Socialistic" aspects of Social Democracy, not the "Liberal" aspects.
What you call "Conservatism", was, 200 years ago, pretty much what was defined as "Liberalism", which was based on individual rights, free markets and property rights.
As for "Socialism" when it first came around, though it incorporated many aspects of Liberalism and many Socialists started out as Liberals, was in fact reaction to both the Liberalism and the Conservatism of the time. Back then Liberals were Individual rights, free market Capitalists and independent property rights, Conservatives of the time were usually Royalists, hereditary rights, land rights based on hereditary rights and lineage, divine rights, strict social structure and lack of individual rights. Than came Socialism, which was about collective rights, every member of society makes society, that every member of society has a duty to the civic good of society rather than individual rights, which are deemed selfish.
Right.Well, I still believe in individual rights over duty to a society. The latter leads to dictatorial governments
Well, I still believe in individual rights over duty to a society. The latter leads to dictatorial governments
At least we are not left in the dark about where you stand personally, but the latter part of your comment is incorrect in that greed and power are much more associated with the governors in any society than the ordinary subjects or citizens.I believe in the collective struggle and its the only way to change society, Individuality always leads back to greed and power,...
But much easier for non-governmental oligarchs.At least we are not left in the dark about where you stand personally, but the latter part of your comment is incorrect in that greed and power are much more associated with the governors in any society than the ordinary subjects or citizens.
Therefore, to move to a Socialist society is to vest even more greed and power in the hands of fewer, not more, people...and that means people who are in a position to impose their will upon the populace (which is much more difficult in societies which have smaller and freer governments).
At least we are not left in the dark about where you stand personally, but the latter part of your comment is incorrect in that greed and power are much more associated with the governors in any society than the ordinary subjects or citizens.
Therefore, to move to a Socialist society is to vest even more greed and power in the hands of fewer, not more, people...and that means people who are in a position to impose their will upon the populace (which is much more difficult in societies which have smaller and freer governments).
But much easier for non-governmental oligarchs.
I believe this is a better scenario for human society than authoritarian governments.I believe in the collective struggle and its the only way to change society, Individuality always leads back to greed and power, but such is the flaw of human kind.
This is a good point. We have to be ok with people freely choosing policies/leaders that we don't agree with as long as it is a fair and free process.Forced collectivism from the top down leads to corruption, totalitarianism and lack of rights, my main issue with most of the ideologies Marxism spawned, like the Bolsheviks and Leninism (and of course its rampant enforced Atheism) and its brand of "Socialism" and its utopian fantasy of Communism
Thus the collective struggle has to be pressure from the bottom, many individuals joining to do the right thing, wanting the same thing and applying pressure, for such things as better rights, better pay, a better society, so direct democracy, sometimes strike action and protest is needed, as simply sitting there and using the ballot box only half changes things, however Democracy is still an important thing to uphold and many need to move away from the "Its only Democracy if we win", attitude that is now common place in all spectrums of politics.
Agree. In the US the media only holds one party accountable which is a problem.Things are a balancing act in politics.
But the Central Government does have to compromise to make all happy, thus the reality is applying pressure towards them and hold them accountable.
I agree. But if you are a bible believing Christian you cannot have this stance. Romans 13.Of course, any government that becomes tyrannical should be toppled, the corrupt Marxists (If they are ever anything other than corrupt) including, like the syndicalist and strike actions of the former eastern bloc.
The bible says the poor will always be with us. If Christ didn't eliminate poverty when He walked the earth; man won't either. He had the ability to make things equal and He didn't. God didn't tell Him to.
Yours in His Service,
~bella
Here in the US we tend to lump republicans and conservatives in the same group. I consider myself a conservative but not a republican. My overall philosophy of conservatism can be summed up as "Allowing maximum freedom while protecting everyone's rights".
Ideally in my opinion a conservative based government should have these characteristics:
Some form of representative government where people vote for leaders and policies.
Government has no preferred religion.
Government has no media outlet of their own.
Some form of court system that impartially decides disputes based on the law and enacted rights.
Should be able to tax the people but only to provide for protection from other countries/organizations and to protect and provide for the citizens rights.
Taxes should be billed not automatically taken from someone's paycheck.
Environmental policy where it balances citizens rights and environmental issues.
Should have a basic healthcare system that is voluntary and provides healthcare for everyone if they want to join.
Term limits for all offices.
Rights are agreed upon by the people who control the government in some representative way. Freedoms and Rights are not absolute. Freedom and rights can be practiced until it is in conflict with another persons freedoms or rights.
Proposed rights are (in no particular order):
Right to life.
Right to practice any religion.
Right to move freely throughout the country without explanation.
Right to protect yourself from harm as well as own weapons to do so.
Right to a trial and due process.
Right to address accusers in person.
Right to fair punishments for crimes.
Right to not be executed or aborted for any reason (right to life)
Right to marry anyone you desire.
Right to a lawyer.
Right to privacy.
Right to free speech.
Right to basic healthcare.
Right to basic clothing housing and food.
Right to own property and possessions without government taking it for public or its own use.
Right to unauthorized searches and seizures.
Right to basic education.
Right to affordable higher education.
This is not meant as an exhaustive list of how a conservative government should be run or what rights we should have. There may even be contradictory things here. It is meant for discussion. Again my overall philosophy of conservatism is to maximize freedom while protecting everyone's rights.
However, the constant struggle against poverty is 100% Christian, to make things fairer as much as possible is a Christian duty.
If government says you have a right to something it freely offers you, whether a vote or food or healthcare, then that IMO is a government provided privilege that a government can justly decide to remove at any time government decides to remove it. If I let you have something from my stash of things it is because I am being generous not because you in any way deserve to have it by right of ownership of my things.
I see no human right to health care, education, food, clothing, a yacht, a beach home etc. One has a right to pursue those things for oneself and no government has any business standing in the way of your acquiring them but government is not required to be the provider of your wants or your needs. That is not the purpose of government that is your own responsibility.
Government may do those things for you, but in that they are doing so not out of some obligation but out of generosity or expedience or with some other purpose in mind. IMO providing people with the basic needs of life that are obtainable through other methods robs people of their dignity as adult members of society and of the feeling of self worth and accomplishment one feels in providing for one's own needs and wants. It is in essence bribing them into becoming passive wards of the state and infantilizing them rather than treating them as adults capable of handling adult responsibilities.
But much easier for non-governmental oligarchs.
They will be always there, poverty will never be eradicated, that is being a realist, only with Christs return will it end for good.
However, the constant struggle against poverty is 100% Christian, to make things fairer as much as possible is a Christian duty.
I'm with you on much of that, but Syndicalism is a dream that cannot work in reality and never has. Therefore, it derails any discussion of Socialism, pro or con, to interject a hypothetical kind of society.The top down "Socialism" is doomed to fail as I said, as it hands the keys of power over to a central government, that then starts basically making a new class of "party members"
Thus the Government should simply be Democratic and based upon the voting system, an elected Government.
But of course, even in democracy there is corruption, unfair practises and they reward the wealthy and powerful over than man on the street, thus the need for direct action in some cases, thus the people should form a backbone of Syndicalist thought, to hold central Government accountable and to withdraw labour when the wealthy are getting far too much of the pie at the expense of those working away.
As for Totalitarianism and Marxism, Fascism and all those enforced, corrupt ideologies, they should feel the full force of the general strike, not just to apply pressure for changes like in the Democratic system, but to grind everything to a halt, to topple their one party system and install Democracy.
Oligarchy: a form of power structure in which power rests with a small number of people. These people may be distinguished by nobility, wealth, education, corporate, religious, political, or military control.There is no such thing as a non-governmental oligarch. That is a contradictory term.
Lech Walesa and his union pals ran one for a while in Poland.I'm with you on much of that, but Syndicalism is a dream that cannot work in reality and never has. Therefore, it derails any discussion of Socialism, pro or con, to interject a hypothetical kind of society.
Here in the US we tend to lump republicans and conservatives in the same group. I consider myself a conservative but not a republican. My overall philosophy of conservatism can be summed up as "Allowing maximum freedom while protecting everyone's rights".
Ideally in my opinion a conservative based government should have these characteristics:
Some form of representative government where people vote for leaders and policies.
Government has no preferred religion.
Government has no media outlet of their own.
Some form of court system that impartially decides disputes based on the law and enacted rights.
Should be able to tax the people but only to provide for protection from other countries/organizations and to protect and provide for the citizens rights.
Taxes should be billed not automatically taken from someone's paycheck.
Environmental policy where it balances citizens rights and environmental issues.
Should have a basic healthcare system that is voluntary and provides healthcare for everyone if they want to join.
Term limits for all offices.
Rights are agreed upon by the people who control the government in some representative way. Freedoms and Rights are not absolute. Freedom and rights can be practiced until it is in conflict with another persons freedoms or rights.
Proposed rights are (in no particular order):
Right to life.
Right to practice any religion.
Right to move freely throughout the country without explanation.
Right to protect yourself from harm as well as own weapons to do so.
Right to a trial and due process.
Right to address accusers in person.
Right to fair punishments for crimes.
Right to not be executed or aborted for any reason (right to life)
Right to marry anyone you desire.
Right to a lawyer.
Right to privacy.
Right to free speech.
Right to basic healthcare.
Right to basic clothing housing and food.
Right to own property and possessions without government taking it for public or its own use.
Right to unauthorized searches and seizures.
Right to basic education.
Right to affordable higher education.
This is not meant as an exhaustive list of how a conservative government should be run or what rights we should have. There may even be contradictory things here. It is meant for discussion. Again my overall philosophy of conservatism is to maximize freedom while protecting everyone's rights.
Oligarchy is a form of government. There cannot exist such a thing as is no such thing as a non- government government.Oligarchy: a form of power structure in which power rests with a small number of people. These people may be distinguished by nobility, wealth, education, corporate, religious, political, or military control.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?