• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Re-baptism vs. Chrismation

Nick T

Lurker
May 31, 2010
584
144
UK
✟30,655.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private

Thank you very much for your insightful and well referenced post, Father. I would just like to ask by way of clarification what you would make of the fluctuations on this point that have occurred historically with regards to the reception of Latins/Catholics. As I understand it criticism of Latin baptism on account of the practice of pouring dates back even into the 13th Century yet a great many synods and Patriarchs since then and in full knowledge of this practice have permitted the reception by chrismation of Latin converts (and they did so long before modern ecumenism). If, as you say, such reception is not permissible even as economia due to deficiency of form then what are we to make of these decisions? It seems that the historical perspective on whether this is a valid form of economia is not so one-sided, although of course the strict practice has always been re-baptism.
 
Upvote 0

SeraphimSarov

Пресвятая Богородица, спаси нас...
Feb 16, 2007
4,058
631
Nowhere
✟43,776.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Celibate
I was received via chrismation under the Antiochian Archdiocese. I had a Roman baptism as an infant. Frankly, I wish I could have been both baptized and chrismated, but a catechumen has no business making such decisions. As someone earlier said, it's up to one's bishop.

Forgive me,
Seraphim
 
Upvote 0

buzuxi02

Veteran
May 14, 2006
8,608
2,514
New York
✟219,964.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
This is evidence that we have strayed from the norm. The teaching above verifies triple immersion as a component for proper form. That when you don't have a body of water the triple pouring is still to be followed. It presupposes triple immersion is already being done and pouring water on the head was a rarity, an anomaly and clarifies to pour three times as well. This is verified when it says, Baptise INTO the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit.. (meaning dunk into each individual name)

It also says when you don't have access to a stream or river, then a body of water capable of immersion is preferred. Finally if the previous options are exhausted pour water.
The overwhelming majority of Orthodox churches have access to the first two options.
But no where does it speak of a single immersion nor of sprinkling nor of emergency air baptisms etc.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

AMM

A Beggar
Site Supporter
May 2, 2017
1,725
1,269
Virginia
✟352,345.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
In Relationship
Agreed... I’m not saying we should change the traditional method of baptism.

And for what it’s worth, nowhere did I speak of a single immersion or sprinkling or emergency air baptisms either. I’ve never met a catholic or Lutheran priest — with whom I’ve discussed baptism — who supports any of those things either.
 
Reactions: buzuxi02
Upvote 0

Melista

Active Member
Jun 13, 2022
49
45
55
Noblesville
✟7,611.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I think I’m going to talk to my priest at our final class tomorrow about being baptized. I will certainly be obedient to what he thinks is best but I feel it would be dishonest of me not to share my concerns and distress over my Protestant baptism 30 years ago.
 
Upvote 0

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
23,911
14,388
60
Sydney, Straya
✟1,469,187.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
In hindsight I would have preferred baptism, not so much for my own peace of mind, but to remove any opportunity for zealots to create doubts about my place in the Church. I know they mean well, but I was chrismated according to the instruction given to our priest by the bishop. Both I and my priest acted in obedience to our bishop and that is where the buck stops, no if's or but's.
 
Reactions: Melista
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
42,418
21,107
Earth
✟1,685,216.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married

yep, just be obedient. and remember that Fr Seraphim Rose was chrismated by St John Maximovitch.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
42,418
21,107
Earth
✟1,685,216.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
It’s primarily due to my own state during my baptism 30 years ago. I had zero understanding and zero real repentance.

well, just ask and see. the big thing is that you are received properly, and there is grace in obedience.
 
Reactions: Melista
Upvote 0

Melista

Active Member
Jun 13, 2022
49
45
55
Noblesville
✟7,611.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
well, just ask and see. the big thing is that you are received properly, and there is grace in obedience.
Thank you. I do believe he will know what is appropriate for my situation. If I fail to explain the circumstances to him then I will always wonder and that’s not good.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
42,418
21,107
Earth
✟1,685,216.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Thank you. I do believe he will know what is appropriate for my situation. If I fail to explain the circumstances to him then I will always wonder and that’s not good.

even if you did or remember something later, God’s mercy is infinitely greater than our shortcomings and failures.
 
Upvote 0

Melista

Active Member
Jun 13, 2022
49
45
55
Noblesville
✟7,611.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
even if you did or remember something later, God’s mercy is infinitely greater than our shortcomings and failures.
That’s comforting because I have a lot of those!
 
Reactions: ArmyMatt
Upvote 0

Melista

Active Member
Jun 13, 2022
49
45
55
Noblesville
✟7,611.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
This is going to be my situation too and I know I need to accept it with a happy heart. I am truly grateful I’m being received and need to put the doubts and questions behind me.
It has been helpful to think back on my Protestant baptism and see the numerous ways I personally failed to understand what it means. I’m glad I am starting to understand that better now and since God is merciful (and beyond linear time) the important part is that I’m starting to finally learn about repentance. I was fixated on the words “repent and be baptized” and it seemed I did things out of order in my limited human understanding.

It was also probably *not* helpful for me to be made privy to this type of information but I asked for it by inquiring about the baptism/chrismation issue to my friend who first introduced me to Orthodoxy so there’s that…
There is no “valid” baptism outside the Church — Part 2 of 2
Ultimately it probably boils down to pride on my part of tending to think I know best when I don’t and if God wants me baptized it will happen. Forgive me for complicating matters and working through my angst in this thread!
 
Reactions: prodromos
Upvote 0

Melista

Active Member
Jun 13, 2022
49
45
55
Noblesville
✟7,611.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Great news, I will be received by baptism in October! I talked further with my priest who said he appreciated my concerns and that I was taking my reception seriously and would be happy to baptize me. Thank you everyone for your prayers and support.
 
Upvote 0