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Rate of Abortion is highest in countries where it is illegal
- Thread starter Gwendolyn
- Start date
Statistics show that the more someone goes to Mass the more they are likely to agree with the teachings of the Church and the less often one goes to Mass the less likely they will agree with the teachings of the Church. And statistics about Catholics who voted for Obama revealed that the less someone went to Mass the more likely they were to vote for Obama who is 100% Pro-Abortion.
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MikeK
Traditionalist Catholic
It isn't immediately clear to me how that relates to what we were talking about - that as a whole, Catholics are opposed to abortion but not contraception...which is contrary to your statement that pro-life Catholics tend to be orthodox Catholics - the math doesn't work.
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You haven't shown any proof of your claim that Pro-Life means Pro-Contraception. I'm Pro-Life and not Pro-Contraception, so I guess your claim is debunked.
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My wife and I both think that abortion should be illegal. We don't use contraception, we use NFP and nothing else. We donate food through our parish to a local homeless shelter for women and their children. We recycle. We don't agree with every war that comes along. We aren't members of the NRA. We aren't white. I know that doesn't fit the stereotype you are trying to make of people who are against legalized abortion. And a good percentage of our parish is like us. We also know of many other parishes that regularly give to the poor and support events like March for Life. But you will never hear it this way in the news.
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Please provide evidence of your claim that a high percentage of Catholics who think that abortion should be illegal are the same Catholics who use contraception. The fact is that there is a high percentage of fallen away Catholics. But these aren't likely the ones marching in Pro-Life rallies. When I went through a non-practicing phase in my life I was not even thinking about going to a Pro-Life rally.
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InnerPhyre
Well-Known Member
Because there is a correlation does not mean that making abortions illegal will necessarily increase the numbers of abortions.
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Yep. It's like the correlation between ice cream sales going up and the crime rate going up. Just because people are buying and eating more ice cream when the crime rate is going up doesn't mean that ice cream causes the crime rate to go up.
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MikeK
Traditionalist Catholic
Absolutely not. Thankfully, nobody was foolish enough to make such a claim - certainly not the OP, who is a pretty bright chica. She meant, I think, to point out that there are ways of successfully preventing abortion without outlawing it - not that it shouldn't be outlawed.
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- Jun 11, 2005
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I don't know how accurate statistics can be compiled on illegal abortions. If you committed a crime would you tell some pollster?
I wonder what methodology they use?
If you look at statistics in the United States, states that pay for abortions, like NY, have many more abortions per 1000 than states that do whatever they can to discourage it (like the Bible Belt.) Now it is possible, of course, that NY's statistics look so bad because young girls in the Bible Belt take buses there, get abortions, and go home. I don't know.
If Roe v. Wade were overturned, the states that currently pay for abortions (are there 13 or so?) would continue to perform them--and women in the other 37 states who wanted abortion would travel there--if they could afford to.
But if the statistics on illegal abortions are true, I think that the reason is that if a woman has an abortion at Planned Parenthood, they will sit her down and say, "What are you going to do so that you don't get pregnant again until you are ready?" The potential of that woman returning is lower.
But a woman who has an illegal abortion without medical intervention will just keep getting pregnant and getting pregnant and getting pregnant and having abortion after abortion after abortion.
I know that the Church is sorrowful when the policies they are bound to by their moral code (no condoms in countries with HIV for example) result in many lives being lost. I know they are sorrowful when lack of effective contraception in the third world might result in millions of illegal abortions.
And there are some who would call those tears crocodile tears. (I do not agree with that assessment--but I don't have much trouble understanding why most of the world does...)
I wonder what methodology they use?
If you look at statistics in the United States, states that pay for abortions, like NY, have many more abortions per 1000 than states that do whatever they can to discourage it (like the Bible Belt.) Now it is possible, of course, that NY's statistics look so bad because young girls in the Bible Belt take buses there, get abortions, and go home. I don't know.
If Roe v. Wade were overturned, the states that currently pay for abortions (are there 13 or so?) would continue to perform them--and women in the other 37 states who wanted abortion would travel there--if they could afford to.
But if the statistics on illegal abortions are true, I think that the reason is that if a woman has an abortion at Planned Parenthood, they will sit her down and say, "What are you going to do so that you don't get pregnant again until you are ready?" The potential of that woman returning is lower.
But a woman who has an illegal abortion without medical intervention will just keep getting pregnant and getting pregnant and getting pregnant and having abortion after abortion after abortion.
I know that the Church is sorrowful when the policies they are bound to by their moral code (no condoms in countries with HIV for example) result in many lives being lost. I know they are sorrowful when lack of effective contraception in the third world might result in millions of illegal abortions.
And there are some who would call those tears crocodile tears. (I do not agree with that assessment--but I don't have much trouble understanding why most of the world does...)
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No, I'm sure they don't.
But I don't see a state like NY (where I lived many years) ever banning abortion. Republicans in NY are often more liberal than Democrats in the Bible Belt.
I was in college when NY made abortion legal...it was, I think, around 1970. Before that, girls in NY would fly to Puerto Rico, where abortion was legal even before it was legal in NY. It didn't take Roe v. Wade to make abortion legal in NY, and ending Roe v. Wade won't end abortion in NY.
Nevertheless, if those 13 states (mostly on the west and east coasts) continued to keep abortion legal, women would go there.
The way the girls I went to college with used to fly down to Puerto Rico.
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I wonder when people are going to start arguing that every kind of murder should be legalized based on the fact that when murder is illegal murders still happen and in order to make it safer and more convenient for those doing the killing.
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I posted the article because I found it interesting. I had an inkling that outlawing abortion wouldn't affect the abortion rate much. I also think we need to look at other ways we can discourage abortion and give women real choices.
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QFT.
I have a feeling that that would really change the way we define who the "pro-life" politicians are.
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The problem is that as soon as something becomes legal people believe that there is nothing wrong with it. And it becomes thought of as a right and something people must have. I think that now radical feminists even think of it as a duty to get an abortion and a sin if one doesn't get one. We are in a culture where evil is now called good and good is now called evil. It's the culture of death. How can we convince people of the need to reduce the number of abortions when the culture is telling people by our laws that there is nothing wrong with it and with many people now even saying that it's a good thing to do? When it was illegal at least most people recognized that it wasn't something to be proud of.
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StThomasMore
Christian Democrat
Abortion rates are higher in countries where the procedure is illegal and nearly half of all abortions worldwide are unsafe, with the vast majority in developing countries, a new study concludes.
Experts could not say whether more liberal laws led to fewer procedures, but said good access to birth control in those countries resulted in fewer unwanted pregnancies.
The global abortion rate remained virtually unchanged from 2003 to 2008, at about 28 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15 to 44, a total of about 43.8 million abortions, according to the study. The rate had previously been dropping since 1995.
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Rate of abortion is highest in countries where practice is banned - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent
I know that in OBOB, many of us are hopeful that making abortion illegal would somehow prevent it... but this article's stats tell us that that just isn't the case.
What do you think?
I think the article is incorrect. around 46 million abortions happen worldwide. 26 million were legal and 20 million illegal. So "legal" abortions have the higher rate of 6 million children killed.
Secondly the 3 highest countries with abortion are countries with legalized abortion.
1. China - 7,930,000
2. Russia - 2,287,300
3. United States - 1,365,700
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