Rapture? Tribulation? or not?

[Telrunya]

That just means we won't go to hell.

I lean towards a post-trib or mid-trib rapture. When I read Revelation, it talks about the beast persecuting the church, THEN God pouring out His wrath on sinners, THEN Christ returning.

Have you read "The Rapture Question Answered" by Robert Van Kampen? I'm not endoresing his book because there are somethings I don't agree with, but it's a very interesting read.

 

[xsynerinc]

I grew up in the Church of Christ but am now a non-denominational Christian. I attend a Baptist church at the moment but would not consider myself strictly Baptist even though I don't disagree with the important aspects of their doctrine. Even though I grew up CoC I never really understood what their view on the end times and Revelation was. I would love to hear it because I am not really sure what I believe. Anyone CoC or not who wants to give their opinion based on scripture can and I would appreciate it. Thanks.

i am non-denom:


for myself i am looking for 'the blessed hope' (ti.2:13).. which i believe will come to pass before the tribulation begins.

see "Imminency expresses hope and a warm spirit of expectancy, 3 which should result in a victorious and purified life. 4 Believers are taught to expect the Savior from heaven at any moment. 5 Paul seemed to include himself among those who looked for Christ's return. 6 Timothy was admonished to "keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ." 7 Jewish converts were reminded that "yet a little while, and He that shall come will come, and will not tarry." 8"


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http://www.khouse.org/articles/prophetic/20021201-444.html



these scriptures i mention below are in no way all of them.. but to keep this post short i limit myself to these few.

"Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." -John 14:1-3

here Jesus says He goes to prepare mansions for us in 'My Father's' house.. then He comes to get believers, that we may be with Him.

but the post-trib rapture believers put the rapture at the same time as the second coming of Christ.. meaning that they merely goe up and come right back down..
thus not getting to those mansions that are only approachable while in heaven where 'My Fathers house' is.

but in the pre-tib rapture there is plenty of time to see and live in those mansions as well as do other things that require being in heaven .. receiving the believers robes, crowns/ rewards, (rev.4:4) taking our seats with Him (eph.2:6; rev.4:4), worshiping our heavenly Father and the Lamb Jesus Christ (rev.4:9-11; 5:9-14), the opening of the sealed scroll (rev.5:5), being there for the arrival of other believers that come from the time of the tribulation (6:9; 7:9-17), eating at the Lambs marriage supper, all else that goes on in heaven, then riding horses in the procession as Jesus arrives at the second coming. (rev.19:7,14)

"Because you (the philadelphia church) have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell upon the earth."- rev.3:10

keep "you" from test.
test "those" upon the earth.

if those words mean anything.. Jesus did not say, "you" will be on the earth at the time of testing.


so.. if the philadelphian church is raptured.. then what about the laodecian church.. who are they?

those who are saved during the tribulation period.

and perhaps, if post-trib believers believe that the church is supposed to go through the tribulation and not looking for the 'blessed hope' which by these given scriptures indicate that it will happen before the tribulation...

i used to think that God would just override their choice and rapture them anyway - but i now believe that because God will not override a persons will, that they will be in the tribulation.

 

[brother daniel]

Are we the servants of Jesus Christ? If we are then we should have counted the cost. Jesus has assured us that the servant is not greater than the master. He said "If they have done these things to me they shall surly do them to you. We should expect to be despised and rejected by family and friends as the tribulation of this world increases. But he also said we will have joy when they persacute us for his sake.
Disciples of Jesus are being tortured and killed all over the world as we relate on this forum. Why should comfort seeking christians rate a ticket out of tribulation when missionaries and disciples are being cruely slain in more humble lands.
WE have only one blessed hope and that is he will find us worthy because he finds us doing what he asked. Economic,political and enviormentel collapse are happening all over the globe. As it grows christians will become more and more the target because The UNITED STATES AND EUROPE, so called Christion nations have raped the people and resource's of the planet. Yes, you and your children will go through great tribulation such as never happened before. But have faith that when your personal trial comes you will not forsake him but are ready to bless those who will persacute you.
Be warned and be ready because the time is short.
Love God and one another while you have the chance. We who are using the internet for this forum are being automaticly tracked. This is a very powerful tool and Satan cannot be pleased with its reach. Praise the Lord Jesus.

 

[alorents]

Revaluations is definitely one of the most controversial and hardest to understand books in the bible with many ranging interpretations of the names and events that take place.

One could spend a lifetime reading it and never even understand even a small fraction of it. If anyone claims to understand Revelations in it's entirity than they are only fooling themselves and hopefully not others.

The are two great truths that can be drawn from Revelations. First, what is about to take place on Earth, though unknown to man and unexpected by him, is fully known to those in heaven. Secondly, what is to take place on Earth is under the complete control and direction of heaven, as this fulfills the Word of God.

The question of Revelation is not about trying to understand it's every meaning -- you not going to, you're only think you will. It is about preparing yourself for the end times. It is the spiritual message that one must look for in Revelations.....

 

[Sketcher]

Revelation 13:5-9

He who has an ear, let him hear. If anyone is to go into captivity,
into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword,
with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.

This is why I believe in a post-trib rapture. There needs to be saints on Earth under persecution for these verses to be correct.

Have you read "The Rapture Question Answered" by Robert Van Kampen? I'm not endoresing his book because there are somethings I don't agree with, but it's a very interesting read.

No I haven't but I don't put a lot of stock in prophesy books. Some of these writers may be playing with fire, by adding to or subtracting from the book of Revelation. Not to mention many people, even famous evangelists have predicted when the rapture would come and they were dead wrong.

I don't really know what will happen. If it's a pre-trib rapture, great. No loss to me. But if it's a post-trib rapture, a lot of pre-tribbers will be VERY dissillusioned when they run smack into the worst persecution in the history of the world.

 

[Bible2]

"Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy."

-- 1 Peter 4:12-13

 

[brother daniel]

Lets take it slow and prayerfully.
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN is speaking to us NOW. HIS GRACE is speaking And this is his message today.
He want's us to wake up and listen to this warning and blessing.
Foget all past opinions. Let Gods word speak to you NOW.

 

[YahwehLove]

The rapture theory comes from these verses:

1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

we know that it will be before the tribulation because in the tribulation God shall pour out his wrath on an unrepentant world. But the church has the promise of God:

1 Thessalonians 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

but it says right there that we arent appointed to WRATH.
Gods WRATH will come at the end.

If you think tribulation is wrath then there are a LOT of christians down thru the ages who probly have something differnt to say .

 

[brother daniel]

We shall learn from Jesus,

Revelation 1

3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;


5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. ARE YOU ONE OF US?. I mean, WE who have eyes to see and ears to hear ,right now. No matter how many, days, years or miles seperate us, we are here now in the name of Jesus, no matter how we pronounce or spell his name. Amen

 

[xsynerinc]

Revelation 13:5-9

He who has an ear, let him hear. If anyone is to go into captivity,
into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword,
with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.

This is why I believe in a post-trib rapture. There needs to be saints on Earth under persecution for these verses to be correct.


No I haven't but I don't put a lot of stock in prophesy books. Some of these writers may be playing with fire, by adding to or subtracting from the book of Revelation. Not to mention many people, even famous evangelists have predicted when the rapture would come and they were dead wrong.

I don't really know what will happen. If it's a pre-trib rapture, great. No loss to me. But if it's a post-trib rapture, a lot of pre-tribbers will be VERY dissillusioned when they run smack into the worst persecution in the history of the world.

the worst that can be done is death. and people go through that every day. what is there to be disillusioned in that?
to live is Christ.
to die is gain.

 

[Bible2]

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands... These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

-- Revelation 7:9,14

"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

-- Revelation 2:10

 

[Sketcher]

the worst that can be done is death. and people go through that every day. what is there to be disillusioned in that?
to live is Christ.
to die is gain.

The death may not be quick nor easy. Remember, this is persecution headed by the devil himself. Christians in persecuted countries know very well that some of their persecutors can be very sadistic. Here in the relatively peaceful U.S., we do not know persecution or torture and many Christians don't beleive they will ever be faced with it. They base this on certain "promises" which are not correctly interpreted or applied. To them, God may be breaking a promise while their thumbs are in a press. Double whammy.