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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Rapture timing
- Thread starter Biblewriter
- Start date
1. The Rapture will be *secret* because it is reserved strictly for the saints of God. It is not a spectacular display for the unbelieving and the ungodly.
2. The Rapture will NOT be quiet for the saints. There will be a loud trumpet sound as well as a loud shout by the Lord Himself. Whether the unbelieving world will hear this we are not told.
So the Scriptures do not support your concept of the Rapture. When Enoch was translated to Heaven, it was strictly between him and God.
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Personally, I believe Moses and Elijah would be more likely, since those miracles correspond to their previous miracles.
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Correct. But neither are they angels. We should take *elders* at face value -- human beings who served as elders and their service was commendable.
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"The Rapture will be *secret*"
The "rapture" is no secret .... the scriptures have revealed it in advance
And the event will go mostly unnoticed .... most who participate will be the dead in Christ, the few living at the time will just disappear .... the event will not be noticed by the unbelieving world
Neither Enoch or Elijah were made immortal in their day .... both are waiting [sleeping] for the "rapture" .... the dead no nothing .... only the One who has come down from heaven has gone back to heaven
Enoch was taken in natural death and his body not found .... Elijah was used by the Lord experiencing super natural events moving around him from place to place for a witness to the people of his day .... he later died and his spirit was returned to His Maker for his later awakening
The "rapture" is no secret .... the scriptures have revealed it in advance
And the event will go mostly unnoticed .... most who participate will be the dead in Christ, the few living at the time will just disappear .... the event will not be noticed by the unbelieving world
Neither Enoch or Elijah were made immortal in their day .... both are waiting [sleeping] for the "rapture" .... the dead no nothing .... only the One who has come down from heaven has gone back to heaven
Enoch was taken in natural death and his body not found .... Elijah was used by the Lord experiencing super natural events moving around him from place to place for a witness to the people of his day .... he later died and his spirit was returned to His Maker for his later awakening
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The Lord took Enoch from the evil conditions on the earth that the preacher had to face .... and he was not killed by his antagonists or by the flood .... no man has gone to heaven except the One who has come down from heaven, Jesus Christ
The world generally interprets the statements regarding Enoch being translated (as in the KJV and other translations) to mean that Enoch was taken to heaven, the incident appears in [Genesis 5:24]. That is simply untrue, as it contradicts other scriptures. For instance, Hebrews9:27 states, "And it is appointed for men to die once."
In context, this is showing Christ's commonality with mankind: Even as it is appointed for men to die once because of sin, so the perfect Christ died once as a sacrifice in mankind's behalf to pay for sin. If what the world says about Enoch's translation is true, Enoch did not die, creating a contradiction in Scripture.
Jesus makes an authoritative declaration regarding what happens after death in John 3:13, "No one has ascended to heaven but He that came down from heaven," meaning Himself.
Who would know better than Jesus? "No one" certainly includes Enoch. Peter declares in Acts 2:29-34 that one as great as David has not risen to heaven either, but is still in the grave.
Hebrews 11:32 lists several other significant people of faith who served God with zeal. The section concludes, "And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us" (verses 39-40).
These and many more unnamed saints are awaiting the resurrection of the dead and glorification in God's Kingdom. This also applies to Enoch.
The term taken away or translated [KJV] in Hebrews 11:5 simply means "transferred." Enoch was transferred or conveyed from one place on earth to another to escape violence aimed against him. In this other earthly place, he died like all men.
And the two witnesses will be to mortal prophets, neither Enoch or Elijah .... the two will be martyred for their witness and subsequently resurrected
Men do not experience physical death once and then again, and neither will a man be resurrected twice
The world generally interprets the statements regarding Enoch being translated (as in the KJV and other translations) to mean that Enoch was taken to heaven, the incident appears in [Genesis 5:24]. That is simply untrue, as it contradicts other scriptures. For instance, Hebrews9:27 states, "And it is appointed for men to die once."
In context, this is showing Christ's commonality with mankind: Even as it is appointed for men to die once because of sin, so the perfect Christ died once as a sacrifice in mankind's behalf to pay for sin. If what the world says about Enoch's translation is true, Enoch did not die, creating a contradiction in Scripture.
Jesus makes an authoritative declaration regarding what happens after death in John 3:13, "No one has ascended to heaven but He that came down from heaven," meaning Himself.
Who would know better than Jesus? "No one" certainly includes Enoch. Peter declares in Acts 2:29-34 that one as great as David has not risen to heaven either, but is still in the grave.
Hebrews 11:32 lists several other significant people of faith who served God with zeal. The section concludes, "And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us" (verses 39-40).
These and many more unnamed saints are awaiting the resurrection of the dead and glorification in God's Kingdom. This also applies to Enoch.
The term taken away or translated [KJV] in Hebrews 11:5 simply means "transferred." Enoch was transferred or conveyed from one place on earth to another to escape violence aimed against him. In this other earthly place, he died like all men.
And the two witnesses will be to mortal prophets, neither Enoch or Elijah .... the two will be martyred for their witness and subsequently resurrected
Men do not experience physical death once and then again, and neither will a man be resurrected twice
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