Rapture timing

[Psalm3704]

Do you have any proof at all, anything at all from the bible that can support your nonsense? The fact is, your arguments goes over the cliff falling flat on it's face when examined under scrutiny as Paul's writings pretty much destroyed your theory in chapter 1, verses 8-10. Paul's definition of that day is the day of Christ's return in wrath and vengeance: 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10. The fact is, you just can't make it work. Let's put it this way, what you say doesn't constitute as fact simply because you claim otherwise.

1 Corin 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corin 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

2 Corin 1: 13 For we write none other things unto you, that what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end;

14 As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are our's in the day of the Lord Jesus.

All of Paul’s comments on the “day of the Lord are not about wrath and vengeance. Yes there are two aspects to the day of the Lord, one is wrath and vengeance and one of Jesus being glorified in His saints, saints being found blameless, spirits being saved and rejoicing.

So this is your best evidence at attempting to refute Paul's declaration of that Day in 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3 being the same Day? Not even good enough to be considered a straw man. LOL!!!

​

2 Thessalonians 1:8 - 2:3New King James Version (NKJV)
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

Where is your proof Paul didn’t know what he was talking about? Just reposting the same passage with the same half of the story highlighted does not your case make.

Paul knew what he was talking about. I can't say the same for you as there's a huge difference. How many times must I keep reposting the same thing till it sinks in?

The resurrection happens in verse 19. Christ descends to earth in verse 21. Since verse 19 comes before verse 21 there cannot be a post-trib rapture. How many times do you need to see this till it stops going over your head?

Isaiah 26:19-21 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.
​

More knucklehead eschatology. Glorified by His saints does not mean He returns with His saints. It's referring to "For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord." Matthew 23:39.

Did you throw up a dart and hit this scripture? You have the nerve to say “More knucklehead eschatology” to me?????

Isn't it amazing I can make you look so foolish just by using whatever verses I get from throwing darts?

This passage has absolutely nothing to do with 2 Thess 1:10 if you imagine so , it is incumbent on you to make the connection, good luck.

Sure it does. So does Revelation 1:7 and Luke 21:27-28. You just can't make the connect. It's why it's going over your head.

Do you realize if He comes with His saints as you claimed when He returns in wrath and vengeance to fight the a/c in 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10, this completely refutes, a post-tribulation rapture?

NO, don’t think so, I am sure you can try to make it appear that way.

I could but it seems to be more fun leaving you in the dark.

A post-trib rapture happens after the tribulation, not during the tribulation when Christ comes to fight the a/c and judges the rest of the world oh wise guy. 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 happens during the tribulation, not after.

Just what is the precise marker that designates the end of the tribulation?

First you tell me this. When does a post-trib rapture occur? After the tribulation or in the tribulation?

It's a serious question because a few of you post-tribbers seem to have problem knowing when Christ leaves heaven and when a post-trib rapture is suppose to happen.

By the way, wrong saints too.

Really now, so the saints Paul referred to in 2 Thess 1 :10 are not the church ??? hmmmm.

I said it's not the church "IN HEAVEN."

Really now. You mean to tell me you didn't know some bible translations uses the word saint denoting angels, new gentile or Jewish Christians within the Tribulation too?

Plus you need to train your eyes to pick up everything you read.

How do you with a straight face talk about me putting my foot in my mouth and say I am using “knucklehead eschatology”. Are you independent Baptist? Just wondering.

Because the resurrection happens in verse 19. Christ leaves heaven in verse 21. Basic simple mathematics just goes over your head. What else can it be but knucklehead eschatology. Maybe obtuse?

The resurrection happens in verse 19. Christ descends to earth in verse 21. Since verse 19 comes before verse 21 there cannot be a post-trib rapture. How many times do you need to see this till it stops going over your head?

Isaiah 26:19-21 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.​

Who was He referring to when He said "For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord." Matthew 23:39?

You need to firm up your connection to 2 Thess 1:10 first before you start quizzing me!

You don't learn anything new dwelling over the same mistakes repeatedly. New ideas comes with introduction.

Need a hint? It's not the church in heaven.

I have repeatedly told you there is no resurrected church in heaven!

Don't you realize the rapture has to happen first before the church can go to heaven?

Do you need verses or a hint as evidence?











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[Psalm3704]

Watch this video and put on your thinking cap for a minute.

If you consider this to be Holy Spirit anointed teaching then I understand why we are having this debate.

It's not from the holy spirit. It's from post-tribbers who constantly claim Christians must go through the great tribulation to be saved.

They must not realize there are billions of dead Christians in the grave that will not be alive to go through the great tribulation. Had they thought about this first, they can see how this argument falls apart at the seem.

Post-tribbers have been using Matthew 24:13 to mislead Christians for decades.

And I thought Daniel, Jesus, Paul and John taught the post trib resurrection, how silly of me.

If you can post just one scripture that can support a post-trib rapture, I'll leave CF for good and never pester you again. Just one verse that I can't refute.

And none of the above ever taught a post trib rapture. There is a post trib resurrection that negates a post trib rapture in Revelation 20:4. You can't have two resurrections immediately after the tribulation. It's illogical as one refute the existence of the other.

If Christians are suppose to go through the tribulation and endure God's wrath to the end in order to be saved, how will those Christians who have already died the last 2000 years be saved since they cannot go through the tribulation?

You have never read where I said that.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

No but you inadvertently promote this idea. Look at the verse you used above: Acts 16:31. The guard who asked Paul how to get saved lived 2000 years ago. How is he suppose to get saved if he has to go through the great tribulation when he's already dead in the grave?

LOL!!! Silly post-tribbers!

Do you post-tribbers (not necessarily you) not understand Jesus was telling us to resist satan's temptation till the day we die, this is what endure to the end means, not endure the wrath of God.

We will not endure the wrath of God in the tribulation, but we will face the wrath of satan and many Saints will be killed for their faith. Rev 6:9 Rev 13:7 Dan 7:21

And we've gone over this a thousand times already. It's not satan wrath as he does not have the power to destroy the earth as God can.

Revelation 12:12 (BBE) Be glad then, O heavens, and you who are in them. But there is trouble for the earth and the sea: because the Evil One has come down to you, being very angry, having the knowledge that he has but a short time.

Revelation 12:12 (CEB) Therefore, rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them. But oh! The horror for the earth and sea! The devil has come down to you with great rage, for he knows that he only has a short time."

Revelation 12:12 (CJB) "Therefore, rejoice, heaven and you who live there! But woe to you, land and sea, for the Adversary has come down to you, and he is very angry, because he knows that his time is short!"

Revelation 12:12 (CSB) Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the earth and the sea, for the Devil has come down to you with great fury, because he knows he has a short time.

It means the devil is [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]sed, kinda like your emotions having to write up 6 posts in one night trying to refute me. LOL!

LMAO, six posts!!!! Really!? Was I on your mind for that long? I must have ruffled your feathers purty gud.









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[Postvieww]

So this is your best evidence at attempting to refute Paul's declaration of that Day in 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3 being the same Day? Not even good enough to be considered a straw man. LOL!!!

​

2 Thessalonians 1:8 - 2:3New King James Version (NKJV)
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,




Paul knew what he was talking about. I can't say the same for you as there's a huge difference. How many times must I keep reposting the same thing till it sinks in?

The resurrection happens in verse 19. Christ descends to earth in verse 21. Since verse 19 comes before verse 21 there cannot be a post-trib rapture. How many times do you need to see this till it stops going over your head?

Isaiah 26:19-21 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.
​

Isn't it amazing I can make you look so foolish just by using whatever verses I get from throwing darts?



Sure it does. So does Revelation 1:7 and Luke 21:27-28. You just can't make the connect. It's why it's going over your head.



I could but it seems to be more fun leaving you in the dark.




First you tell me this. When does a post-trib rapture occur? After the tribulation or in the tribulation?

It's a serious question because a few of you post-tribbers seem to have problem knowing when Christ leaves heaven and when a post-trib rapture is suppose to happen.




I said it's not the church "IN HEAVEN."

Really now. You mean to tell me you didn't know some bible translations uses the word saint denoting angels, new gentile or Jewish Christians within the Tribulation too?

Plus you need to train your eyes to pick up everything you read.



Because the resurrection happens in verse 19. Christ leaves heaven in verse 21. Basic simple mathematics just goes over your head. What else can it be but knucklehead eschatology. Maybe obtuse?

The resurrection happens in verse 19. Christ descends to earth in verse 21. Since verse 19 comes before verse 21 there cannot be a post-trib rapture. How many times do you need to see this till it stops going over your head?

Isaiah 26:19-21 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.​

You don't learn anything new dwelling over the same mistakes repeatedly. New ideas comes with introduction.




Don't you realize the rapture has to happen first before the church can go to heaven?

Do you need verses or a hint as evidence?











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Psalm3704 said:

Not even good enough to be considered a straw man. LOL!!!

I can't say the same for you as there's a huge difference. How many times must I keep reposting the same thing till it sinks in?

Isn't it amazing I can make you look so foolish just by using whatever verses I get from throwing darts?

You just can't make the connect. It's why it's going over your head.

I could but it seems to be more fun leaving you in the dark.

Plus you need to train your eyes to pick up everything you read.

How many times do you need to see this till it stops going over your head?

You don't learn anything new dwelling over the same mistakes repeatedly.


Your PHD in condescension at work. I do admit you bring out the worst in me. Lord forgive me.

 

[Postvieww]

Psalm3704 said:

Don't you realize the rapture has to happen first before the church can go to heaven?

Do you need verses or a hint as evidence?

There is no resurrected church in heaven. Yes I do need verses!

 

[Postvieww]

Psalm3704 said:

If you can post just one scripture that can support a post-trib rapture, I'll leave CF for good and never pester you again. Just one verse that I can't refute.


John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


There is no doubt in my mind that you can refute the words of Jesus, I just want to watch you do it.

 

[Psalm3704]

Actually, it doesn't. For Jesus' coming FOR his saints and WITH his saints will occur at the same 2nd coming.

Actually, in its context, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 happens after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming. For 2 Thessalonians 1:7 refers to when "the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven", which is only at his 2nd coming (Matthew 24:30).

And 2 Thessalonians 1:7 refers to when "the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels", which is only at his 2nd coming (Matthew 25:31, Matthew 24:31, Mark 8:38, Luke 9:26).

And 2 Thessalonians 1:9 refers to the future presence of the Lord in glory and power, which is only at his 2nd coming (Matthew 24:30).

And 2 Thessalonians 1:10 refers to when Jesus "shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe", which is only at his 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

The problem is you don't know the correct time when Christ leaves heaven and descend upon the earth. Christ doesn't come after the tribulation, He comes at the 6th vial to Armageddon. This happens before the end of the tribulation. There's also a 7th vial that happens after Christ is already on earth.

Do you know who causes the great hails and why it happens? I don't think you do. More evidence against a post-trib rapture in the old testament.

The tribulation doesn't end till after the 7th vial. Now how can there be a post-trib rapture if Christ comes to earth and raptures the church at the 6th vial? Does the word post not mean after? The 6th vial occurs before the 7th. For so mysterious reason, some post-tribbers are numerically disordered.

Bible2, how does the tribulation end if Christ doesn't come in time to end the war at Armageddon? He said unless those days be shorten, no flesh would be saved. If He doesn't come before the end of the tribulation, there would be no one alive to rapture.

Revelation 16:12-16 New King James Version (NKJV)
12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” 16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.​

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[Postvieww]

Psalm3704 said:

No but you inadvertently promote this idea. Look at the verse you used above: Acts 16:31. The guard who asked Paul how to get saved lived 2000 years ago. How is he suppose to get saved if he has to go through the great tribulation when he's already dead in the grave?

You are arguing a point with me that doesn’t apply to anything I’ve said. Why not spent that time actually answering a point I’ve raised.

 

[Psalm3704]

Psalm3704 said:

If you can post just one scripture that can support a post-trib rapture, I'll leave CF for good and never pester you again. Just one verse that I can't refute.


John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


There is no doubt in my mind that you can refute the words of Jesus, I just want to watch you do it.

We've gone over this scripture, what a thousand times now? The last time was only a few weeks ago.

Oh that's right. I just remember I need to repost the same thing repeatedly a thousand times a thousand more till it sinks in right?










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[Psalm3704]

Psalm3704 said:

No but you inadvertently promote this idea. Look at the verse you used above: Acts 16:31. The guard who asked Paul how to get saved lived 2000 years ago. How is he suppose to get saved if he has to go through the great tribulation when he's already dead in the grave?

You are arguing a point with me that doesn’t apply to anything I’ve said. Why not spent that time actually answering a point I’ve raised.

That's because Acts 16:31 had nothing to do with what we were discussing. You tried to pull another straw man and it blew up in your face.

I can play your game too. LOL







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[Psalm3704]

Psalm3704 said:
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


There is no doubt in my mind that you can refute the words of Jesus, I just want to watch you do it.

By the way, when is the last day? That can't be post trib as the word post means after. The last day of the tribulation is not after the tribulation. After the tribulation would be the first day of the millennium. John 6 refutes the post-trib rapture too.

Only, only, only a pre-trib rapture falls on a last day as it falls on the last day of the church age. The next day is the first day of the tribulation.

So when is the last day?










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[Postvieww]

We've gone over this scripture, what a thousand times now? The last time was only a few weeks ago.

Oh that's right. I just remember I need to repost the same thing repeatedly a thousand times a thousand more till it sinks in right?










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Whatever it takes to honor your commitment.

 

[JLB777]

Zechariah 14, 1st and 2nd Thessalonians is not about the Olivet Discourse.

The Olivet Discourse was describing Zechariah 14.

The Coming of the Lord with His saints.

The sun being darkened and the moon not giving it's light.



Here is some context from Zechariah:

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10


30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30


again


Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.
It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
Zechariah 14:5-6


29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31


again


Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
Zechariah 14:2


20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
Luke 21:20


and again


Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
Zechariah 14:1


16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-5:2


Case Closed.



JLB

 

[Postvieww]

By the way, when is the last day? That can't be post trib as the word post means after. The last day of the tribulation is not after the tribulation. After the tribulation would be the first day of the millennium. John 6 refutes the post-trib rapture too.

Only, only, only a pre-trib rapture falls on a last day as it falls on the last day of the church age. The next day is the first day of the tribulation.

So when is the last day?










.

Maybe the last day of this age, the last day of the tribulation. We do have possibilities other than the last day of the church age in your theory. Ever consider the last day of the church age is the last day of the tribulation?

 

[Psalm3704]

Psalm3704 said:

Don't you realize the rapture has to happen first before the church can go to heaven?

Do you need verses or a hint as evidence?

There is no resurrected church in heaven. Yes I do need verses!

You seriously need verses revealing a rapture must happen first before the church goes to heaven? You can't just realize this logically? Or would you rather just take my word if I told you the church goes to heaven, then gets rapture...........from heaven?









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[JLB777]

By the way, when is the last day?

The last Day of this age, before the age to come.

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:34-36


It shall be one day which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.
Zechariah 14:6


If He comes in the evening on the last Day of this age [the 6000th year from Adam] and Gathers His people at the resurrection/rapture, whereby all those who are Christ's will be caught up together with Him in the clouds, then He destroys they wicked and the angels gather them in bundles for burning, when His feet stand on the mount of Olives with all His people around Him, and He takes His place on His throne, it will be the next Age.

[At 6:01 PM, in Jerusalem, it is considered the next Day.]

He will come in the evening on the last Day, and it will be the next Day [the age to come] after 6:00 PM on the same Day.

It will be a day, known to the Lord.

The Age of the resurrection.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

1st Thessalonians doesn't give signs leading up to the rapture. "But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night." 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2. The book of 1st Thessalonians focuses on the rapture of the church and Christ coming as the bridegroom before the tribulation. There's no detail of the tribulation in this book.

Thank you for admitting that the Rapture occurs on the Day of the Lord.

You just made my point!



JLB

 

[Psalm3704]

The Olivet Discourse was describing Zechariah 14.

The Coming of the Lord with His saints.

The sun being darkened and the moon not giving it's light.

Here is some context from Zechariah:

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10


30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

again

Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.
It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
Zechariah 14:5-6


29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31


again


Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
Zechariah 14:2


20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
Luke 21:20


and again


Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
Zechariah 14:1


16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-5:2

Case Closed.

JLB

Here's the Olivet Discourse. His disciples asked Him what are the signs of His coming and the signs of the end.

Matthew 24:3 New King James Version (NKJV)
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”​

Here is the Discourse Christ explains to His disciples of what must take place leading to the end of the age and before His return. Show me where in Zechariah 14 is Matthew 24:4-14.

Matthew 24:4-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
​

Also this. If the signs leading up to the second coming are already in the bible, why didn't Jesus say read Zechariah 14 as He told them the AoD spoken by the Daniel the prophet?

Also this. Once you're in the tribulation, do you still need signs to know the whole world is going through hell on earth to realize you're in the end of the age?

Plus this. If you go by that notion that Zechariah 14 is the discourse, you would have to consider the entire prophetic books from Isaiah to Malachi in the OT would also be the Olivet Discourse. All those books are prophecies of the 70th week.











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[Psalm3704]

Thank you for admitting that the Rapture occurs on the Day of the Lord.

You just made my point!

JLB

No problem as long as you realized the bible mentions more than one future days of the Lord.

Luke 17:22 New International Version
Then he said to his disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it.








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[Postvieww]

You seriously need verses revealing a rapture must happen first before the church goes to heaven? You can't just realize this logically? Or would you rather just take my word if I told you the church goes to heaven, then gets rapture...........from heaven?









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No word games please you know very well I've said in the past there is no scripture that shows a resurrected church in heaven. That would be because it will never happen. I fully understand you believe a rapture will wisk the church away to heaven for 7 years but I am saying that is not in scripture. Yes there is a resurrection and catching up but not to heaven. How many times must I repeat myself before you get it. That did feel good. You taught me well.

 

[Psalm3704]

Ever consider the last day of the church age is the last day of the tribulation?

This still won't produce a post trib rapture as a post trib rapture falls on the first day of the millennium.











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