Rapture timing

[JLB777]

You are simply assuming, without a shred of Biblical evidence that "the day of the Lord" and the rapture are the same event. The verse you quoted speaks of the rapture, not of "the day of the Lord."

Here it is again for you to read...

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:2


The resurrection is first, then those who alive and remain shall be caught up together with them.


All the dead in Christ, and all who are alive and remain, are caught up together... to meet the Lord in the air.

The Resurrection/rapture is one event, whereby both who are resurrected from the dead, and those who are alive and remain are caught up together.

This happens at His coming.

When the Lords comes, it will be on the last Day, which is the day of the Lord.

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:39-40

There is no time separation between the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and the rapture of those who are alive and remain, until the coming of the Lord.

Certainly not 7 years, like the false teachers claim.






JLB

 

[Biblewriter]

I see person after person trying to establish end time timelines based on the Revelation. But this is serious error. The Greek name of the revelation is apokalupsis (Apocalypse.) This means, and clearly means, presented symbolically, as opposed to being explicitly stated. But we do not just find this in the Greek name of the book. We read that "He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,]." Revelation 1:1 The word "signified" (esemanen in the Greek) clearly states exactly what I just said.

The end time timeline is not in the Revelation. It is found in the very many explicit statements of Bible prophecy, most of which are in the Old Testament. When these are examined in detail, it becomes clear that the time line is in those prophecies. And that timeline is distinctly different from the timelines invented by many that imagine they have found them in the Revelation.

This is not to even imply that the Revelation is either unreliable or wrong. But rather, that it was never intended by God to establish a timeline, but to reveal the real secret to what will take place, that God is in control, actually causing the seemingly random events of that period.

 

[Biblewriter]

Here it is again for you to read...

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:2


The resurrection is first, then those who alive and remain shall be caught up together with them.


All the dead in Christ, and all who are alive and remain, are caught up together... to meet the Lord in the air.

The Resurrection/rapture is one event, whereby both who are resurrected from the dead, and those who are alive and remain are caught up together.

This happens at His coming.

When the Lords comes, it will be on the last Day, which is the day of the Lord.

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:39-40

There is no time separation between the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and the rapture of those who are alive and remain, until the coming of the Lord.

Certainly not 7 years, like the false teachers claim.






JLB

Not even one of the scriptures you have quoted either directly states or even implies that "the day of the Lord" and "the rapture" are the same event. In the early part of this thread I posted the scriptures that plainly show that these are two entirely different events that cannot take place at the same time. Instead of considering these scriptures, you have simply presented others that you interpret to mean what they do not actually say.

And the seven years you dismiss the claim of false teachers is the last week of the seventy weeks revealed to Daniel. It is plainly stated in Bible prophecy. And contrary to the claims of some that this was only invented by dispensationalists to justify a pre tribuation rapture, a future fulfillment of this seventieth week was plainly taught in the very oldest Christian commentary on scripture that has survived to the present day. This is a commentary on Daniel, written by a man named Hyppolytus. This is thought to have been written between 202 and 211 A.D. It was also referred to in the very oldest Christian commentary of Bible prophecy of any significant length which has survived to the present day. There were older ones we know abut, but all of them have either been lost or are very short. But the oldest one of any significant length that has come down to us is the last twelve chapters of the very famous five volume work by Irenaeus, titled "Against Heresies." This is thought to have been written between 186 and 188 A.D.

 

[Luke17:37]

I see person after person trying to establish end time timelines based on the Revelation. But this is serious error. The Greek name of the revelation is apokalupsis (Apocalypse.) This means, and clearly means, presented symbolically, as opposed to being explicitly stated. But we do not just find this in the Greek name of the book. We read that "He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,]." Revelation 1:1 The word "signified" (esemanen in the Greek) clearly states exactly what I just said.

The end time timeline is not in the Revelation. It is found in the very many explicit statements of Bible prophecy, most of which are in the Old Testament. When these are examined in detail, it becomes clear that the time line is in those prophecies. And that timeline is distinctly different from the timelines invented by many that imagine they have found them in the Revelation.

This is not to even imply that the Revelation is either unreliable or wrong. But rather, that it was never intended by God to establish a timeline, but to reveal the real secret to what will take place, that God is in control, actually causing the seemingly random events of that period.

Believe what you want. I'll try not to keep trying to convince you otherwise.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Biblewriter]

1 Thessalonians chapter 4 links up with chapter 5.
the day of the Lord - when we will be caught up together

day of Christ - that day - our gathering together
shall not come- till - man of sin be revealed
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ/the day of Christ
was not at hand then, nor now.
Jesus Christ told us - when ye see all these things
/that includes the abomination of desolation
and
immediately after the tribulation
the sun shall be darkened
the stars of heaven shall fall
6th seal events
Isaiah 13 events as to when Babylon gets the wrath of God
sun shall be darkened
Rev. 18 - come out - My people - that ye receive not of her
plagues/the vials are full

let no man deceive you
So does it matter what a preacher or leader runs with as his
message? God told that if we are ashamed of His words, He will
be ashamed of us at His coming.

Mark 8:38 Luke 9:26 Titus 1:16 2 Peter 2:1

So, because you think this passage ties these events together as a single event, the scriptures that show that they are different simply do not count?

 

[Biblewriter]

Believe what you want. I'll try not to keep trying to convince you otherwise.

I am not speaking of beliefs, but of undeniable facts. Most of those who try to construct time lines based on the Revelation have very little knowledge of what the very many explicitly stated prophecies actually say. And many of them are not even aware that these prophecies are in the Bible.

Just as an example, I will quote one little known, but explicitly stated, prophecy:

"When the Assyrian comes into our land, And when he treads in our palaces, Then we will raise against him Seven shepherds and eight princely men. They shall waste with the sword the land of Assyria, And the land of Nimrod at its entrances; Thus He shall deliver us from the Assyrian, When he comes into our land And when he treads within our borders." Micah 5:5-6

The Bible explicitly tells where this "Assyrian" will arise from, where he will attack first, second, and third, who his allies will be, when the attack on Jerusalem will take place, and even the daily progress of that attack. But almost none of those trying to establish end time time lines from the Revelation even know that this is a prophetic end time individual.

 

[Hazrus]

On the other hand, preterism (whether full or partial), as well as historicism (in its various modern forms), and pre-tribulation rapturism, symbolicism, and spiritualism, could all be animated by the same spirit of fear: that the church alive today throughout the world would otherwise have to physically suffer through the future, almost-entirely literal, worldwide tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For these 5 views of preterism, historicism, pre-tribulation rapturism, symbolicism, and spiritualism, in their different ways, each gives a mistaken assurance to the church alive today that it won't have to physically suffer through that tribulation.

That is not Partial Preterism. Partial Preterists believe that ALL Christians go through the tribulation. It is ongoing until the Lord returns. Don't lump us in with the others!

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Luke17:37]

I am not speaking of beliefs, but of undeniable facts. Most of those who try to construct time lines based on the Revelation have very little knowledge of what the very many explicitly stated prophecies actually say. And many of them are not even aware that these prophecies are in the Bible.

Just as an example, I will quote one little known, but explicitly stated, prophecy:

"When the Assyrian comes into our land, And when he treads in our palaces, Then we will raise against him Seven shepherds and eight princely men. They shall waste with the sword the land of Assyria, And the land of Nimrod at its entrances; Thus He shall deliver us from the Assyrian, When he comes into our land And when he treads within our borders." Micah 5:5-6

The Bible explicitly tells where this "Assyrian" will arise from, where he will attack first, second, and third, who his allies will be, when the attack on Jerusalem will take place, and even the daily progress of that attack. But almost none of those trying to establish end time time lines from the Revelation even know that this is a prophetic end time individual.

If pre-tribulation rapture were a fact, you could make a water-tight argument from Scripture. I gave you just a few reasons why I believe in post-tribulation resurrection-gathering but most of them you ignored. Nevertheless, you are entitled to your own opinions. Goodbye.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[pat34lee]

You are simply assuming, without a shred of Biblical evidence that "the day of the Lord" and the rapture are the same event. The verse you quoted speaks of the rapture, not of "the day of the Lord."

There is no verse that says 'rapture' unless it is
a modern version that changed the words.

 

[Biblewriter]

If pre-tribulation rapture were a fact, you could make a water-tight argument from Scripture. I gave you just a few reasons why I believe in post-tribulation resurrection-gathering but most of them you ignored. Nevertheless, you are entitled to your own opinions. Goodbye.

In this post, I was not even speaking about the timing of the rapture. Early in this thread, I clearly stated that all positions on the timing of the rapture are based on interpretation.

Here, I was only speaking about the practice of attempting to construct a timeline from the Revelation.

But I did not ignore the scriptures you posted about the timing of the rapture. Instead, I pointed out that your assumptions about their meanings were simply not stated in the actual texts of any of these scriptures.

 

[Biblewriter]

There is no verse that says 'rapture' unless it is
a modern version that changed the words.

The English word "rapture" simply means "caught up." It is derived from the Greek word "harpazo," which is literally translated "caught up" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. So this is indeed a scriptural term. But you should not be making such a case anyway. For the word trinity never occurs in any scripture, either in English or Greek or Hebrew. But the doctrine of the trinity is fundamental Christian doctrine. Even so, the doctrine of the rapture is fundamental Christian doctrine. The timing of this event is indeed a legitimate subject for debate. But not the fact that it will occur. for the scriptures very explicitly state that "we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:17 So if you deny that this will happen, you are denying explicitly stated scripture.