RAPTURE POLL

[LittleLambofJesus]

This thread is simply to find out which members on CF believe in a future "rapture" and the timing of it. Thanks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

The rapture is an eschatological term used by certain Christians, particularly within branches of American evangelicalism, referring to a purported end time event when all Christian believers – living and dead – will rise into the sky and join Christ.[1][2] Some adherents believe this event is predicted and described in Paul's First Epistle to the Thessalonians in the Bible,[3] where he uses the Greek harpazo (ἁρπάζω), meaning to snatch away or seize. Though it has been used differently in the past, the term is now often used by certain believers to distinguish this particular event from the Second Coming of Jesus Christ to Earth mentioned in Second Thessalonians, Gospel of Matthew, First Corinthians, and Revelation, usually viewing it as preceding the Second Coming and followed by a thousand year millennial kingdom.[4] Adherents of this perspective are sometimes referred to as premillenialist dispensationalists, but amongst them there are differing viewpoints about the exact timing of the purported event.

 

[tranquil]

I don't believe in a magically 'whisked away' rapture. People are gathered; the living gathered on earth, the dead in heaven.

 

[SeventyOne]

After Paul tells us about the mystery of the rapture, it's easy enough to go back to the source of that revelation, Isaiah 26:19-21.

In that passage, we find the dead and living gathered with the Lord prior to His wrath being poured out on the whole earth. Therefore, pre-trib.

 

[christiansoccerplayer]

Pre-Trib all the way.

 

[keras]

Pre-Trib all the way.

Until the Day that the Lord takes action, His terrible Day of wrath against His enemies and you are still on earth.
On earth, the place you were made to inhabit and where all of us Christians have work to do.
The Lord's people going to heaven is never stated in the Bible and Jesus said that such a thing was impossible. John 3:13

 

[oldrunner]

Pre-Wrath, after starting Pre-when first saved, and going to Post.

After doing a word study of the parousia, I only find it immeditely after the tribulation of those days, which lines up with when it is in Pauls writtings too: Rescue from the wrath to come by the parousia of Jesus, by the resurrection and translation of the saints. Rev 19, only has the greek word for coming and going-along with different empasis. This is important. About the same time "The Sign" , by Robert Van Kampen came out, and a Pre-Wrath book by Rosenthal, and I saw what I was seeing in both books!

Comparison of the Olivette Discourse, with the six seals of Revelation, place the coming (parousia), after the tribulation, but before God's wrath is poured out-trumpets & bowls. Pretty well, if you just study out the word coming (parousia), you will see when it is.

We have a bias that the church is not in Mat. 24, by Pre-mill believers, but I assure you it is. That is why people can't see it, IMO. The church will endure persucution by the Antichrist, but not God's wrath. Jesus said He would not come back until after the Great Tribulation, and rescue us from His wrath to come. This is what I hang my hat on.

I just belive what Jesus says, not how I see the Church, or if I can't answer every little detail-cause no one person has 100% truth in matters of the End Times, if we are truly honest. And I'm not dis-rescpecting Pre or Post view points, this is just what I came to believe is the truth.

A good book that explains Pre-Wrath, along with the other two is: Rapture: Case Closed? By Nelson Walters. This is not the same as Mid-trib.

 

[Biblewriter]

Anyone who denies that the rapture will take place is denying explicitly stated scripture. The only legitimate question is when it will take place, in relation to other end time events presented in the scriptures.

 

[keras]

Anyone who denies that the rapture will take place is denying explicitly stated scripture. The only legitimate question is when it will take place, in relation to other end time events presented in the scriptures.

I deny that there is a 'rapture to heaven', of the Church. That idea is never stated in the Bible and Jesus categorically refutes it. John 3:13, +

What Paul prophesies in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, is a transportation of those who kept their faith, to where Jesus is, that is: in Jerusalem. Confirmed by Matthew 24:30-31

 

[Biblewriter]

I deny that there is a 'rapture to heaven', of the Church. That idea is never stated in the Bible and Jesus categorically refutes it. John 3:13, +

What Paul prophesies in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, is a transportation of those who kept their faith, to where Jesus is, that is: in Jerusalem. Confirmed by Matthew 24:30-31

In the house of the Father of Jesus are many rooms, and He went there to prepare a place for us.

 

[keras]

In the house of the Father of Jesus are many rooms, and He went there to prepare a place for us.

That place is the New Jerusalem, described in Revelation 21:1-27
It will come to the earth after the Millennium and God will come to dwell with mankind with it.
So we humans never go to heaven, but heaven eventually comes to us.

 

[christiansoccerplayer]

Until the Day that the Lord takes action, His terrible Day of wrath against His enemies and you are still on earth.
On earth, the place you were made to inhabit and where all of us Christians have work to do.
The Lord's people going to heaven is never stated in the Bible and Jesus said that such a thing was impossible. John 3:13

I still believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture and if I'm wrong on the timing, then I'm wrong. But I know the way to eternal life is belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior.

 

[keras]

I still believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture and if I'm wrong on the timing, then I'm wrong. But I know the way to eternal life is belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Well, you have been sadly deceived by believing in a 'rapture to heaven'. That theory is contrary to all the scriptures that tell us to stand firm during all that must happen before Jesus Returns. Revelation 13:10
Stay strong in your belief in God and your new life, Baptized into Jesus and you will receive Eternal life when you stand before God in Judgement. Revelation 20:15-18

 

[christiansoccerplayer]

Well, you have been sadly deceived by believing in a 'rapture to heaven'. That theory is contrary to all the scriptures that tell us to stand firm during all that must happen before Jesus Returns. Revelation 13:10
Stay strong in your belief in God and your new life, Baptized into Jesus and you will receive Eternal life when you stand before God in Judgement. Revelation 20:15-18

No, I have not been deceived. I long for Jesus to come back and get me before the 7-year long Tribulation. John 14:1-4. Just too bad every time someone admits they believe in the Rapture, they get lectured by you and the rest of the anti-Rapture members on this forum.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I don't believe in a magically 'whisked away' rapture. People are gathered; the living gathered on earth, the dead in heaven.

Much like Lazarus was "whisked away" into the bosom of Abraham as shown in this "covenantle" OT sv NT parable/story?

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:
19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day."
20 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores."
22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom.
The rich man also died and was buried."

This Scripture is also a fitting representation of the position of the nations before the Messiah's sacrifice for the world's sins. They were certainly "excluded from the commonwealth of Israel," "strangers to the covenants of promise," and "without hope and without God in the world."
The Gentiles were beggars, located outside Judah and longing to be fed spiritual crumbs from the table of the divinely blessed Jews.......................

The Jews pictured by the rich man in this parable are in their present state because of their unbelief, which ultimately manifested itself in the rejection of the Messiah, Yeshua. Unfortunately, this parable shows that the punishment and testing they would undergo would not immediately lead them to Yeshua. Instead of calling on the Messiah, the rich man calls on his ancestor Abraham to help ease his suffering.

Yeshua ends this parable abruptly, with no real resolution presented.
The picture presented is a bleak one, yet there is hope for the Jews and for all Israel. In Romans 11, Paul laid out that hope in such a manner that scarcely few today have really believed it.

CONCLUSION
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, long used by mainstream Christian ministers to teach the "reality of hell," really has nothing to say about punishment or reward in the afterlife.
Yeshua used this story, which fit the common misconception about life after death in his day, to show the fate that awaited the Jewish nation because of the unbelief and faithlessness which caused them to reject him as the Messiah. They still suffer from that fate to this very day.
================================
Let's not forget the corrupt Judean Rulers were divided about where there was a resurrection on not.

Acts 5:17
Rising yet the Chief-Priest and all those together to-him, being a sect of the Sadducees they are filled of-jealousy/boiling

6 Paul yet knowing yet that the one part is of Sadducees, the yet different of Pharisees, he cried out in the sunhedrin, "Men, brethren, I a Pharisee, am son of Pharisees; about the hope and resurrection of dead-ones I am being judged!"
7 And when he had said this, a dissension arose between the Pharisees and the Sadducees; and the assembly was divided.
8 For Sadducees say that there is no resurrection -- and no angel or spirit;
but the Pharisees confess both.
9 Then there arose a loud outcry. And the scribes of the Pharisees' party arose and protested, saying, "We find no evil in this man; but if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him, let us not fight against God."

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 says we will be "arpagēsometha" (seized, caught up, snatched away, aka "Raptured") when the Lord returns with the clouds (not mentioning it being on Earth, as with in the Millenium). If you read Revelation 7:9 as it is written (Chronological order), John sees the Great Multitude in Heaven (not on earth) after the 6th Seal is opened and after the 144,000 jews are sealed. From that point forward in Revelation, the only Christians mentioned as being on Earth are the 144,000 and the 2 witnesses and they are martyrs. This is why I believe the "Rapture" of saints occurs before the 7th seal is opened. I believe the 1st seal has already been opened (Rider on a White Horse) because I had an open vision and saw riders on white horses trampling the clouds from east to west. It is not Christ or the Anti-Christ, but one of the 4 spirits of Heaven from the throne of God that goes West and is the spirit of Conquering (Zechariah 6:4-6)

 

[keras]

If you read Revelation 7:9 as it is written (Chronological order), John sees the Great Multitude in Heaven (not on earth) after the 6th Seal is opened and after the 144,000 jews are sealed.

I read Revelation 7 and I see that chapter as entirely describing earthly events . The first 3 verses set the scene and it never changes.
Your idea of the vast multitude of Christians being in heaven, is never stated anywhere in the Bible. That they are in Jerusalem is proved by Rev 14:1, where Jesus is standing on Mt Zion to select the 12,000 out of each tribe; far more than just those of Judah. And they are not dead, they go out to proclaim the coming Kingdom to the world. Isaiah 66:19

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

After Paul tells us about the mystery of the rapture, it's easy enough to go back to the source of that revelation, Isaiah 26:19-21.

In that passage, we find the dead and living gathered with the Lord prior to His wrath being poured out on the whole earth. Therefore, pre-trib.

Where is it shown in Revelation?

Members who believe or don't believe in a future "rapture"

1. *
   I don't believe in a future rapture
   13 vote(s)
   37.1%
2. I believe in a future rapture
   8 vote(s)
   22.9%
3. I am pre-trib
   10 vote(s)
   28.6%
4. I am mid-trib
   2 vote(s)
   5.7%
5. I am post-trib
   5 vote(s)
   14.3%
6. Other [please explain]
   3 vote(s)
   8.6%

 

[Biblewriter]

I am disappointed to see that the largest number in this poll goes to those that outright deny the explicitly stated scripture that "the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

 

[Douggg]

I voted other because in my view the rapture could happen pre-70th week, or maybe later once the 70th week starts, but it has to happen before the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

 

[keras]

Where is it shown in Revelation?

A question that the 'rapture to heaven' believers cannot answer.
That Bible writer and Douggg, two knowledgeable people and Christians, should believe in something that simply isn't Biblical or prophesied, is a sad thing.

Those who hold to the belief that they won't face trials and testing - any tribulation; are set up to fail when disaster strikes and they remain stuck on the earth.
But it seems that God wants it that way. Those whose faith is weak will renounce God when what they thought He would do for them, doesn't happen.

I know that to change your beliefs is a very difficult and traumatic thing to do. Your friends and family will think you have gone mad. However, you will stand stronger thru all that must happen and the Lord will honor you for it.