Rapture Believers, question about post-rapture faith

[Timtofly]

Yes, but that's an entirely different set of angels. Those angels did nothing wrong. We're talking about the sin that Jude spells out for us.

Jude 6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

We can see that they kept not their first estate but left their own habitation.

Jude 7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, in like manner giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

These angels in these verses left their own habitation and gave themselves over to fornication. This completely ties in with what the Genesis 6 verse states.

So I ask again, what strange flesh would that be if not human? The subject is carried from verse 6 -the angels. They're the ones in everlasting chains under darkness unto judgement and we see in the next verse why.

I am pretty sure in verse 7 it was Sodom going after the angels, and saying that means the angels went after humans is not the same thing. No verse has ever been found in Scripture to indicate angels can have sex nor procreate. That is pure human imagination. You would also have to declare humans left the firmament as well if you are doing a comparison equally. Because that is what the rebel angels did.

 

[Timtofly]

For Pre-"trib" (more accurately Pre 70th week), they MUST believe in post rapture salvation.
For Post-"trib" (more accurately Post 70th week), their position doesn't leave much room for it
It's mid trib and pre wrath that have a possibility of being on either side of the issue. I think I'm an odd one out in the pre-wrath camp where I don't believe in post rapture salvation because of things I found in old testament scripture and the parables of Jesus.

There is not even any millennium salvation. Salvation as we know it with the body of Christ, the church, stops at the 6th Seal. That is it. Not even the Holy Spirit will be around. The Millennium firstfruits are hand picked by Jesus Christ Himself. The 144k are sealed by an angel. The angel is not going around looking for people saying the sinners prayer of confession. The angel seals those determined by God to be sealed.

 

[Jamdoc]

There is not even any millennium salvation. Salvation as we know it with the body of Christ, the church, stops at the 6th Seal. That is it. Not even the Holy Spirit will be around. The Millennium firstfruits are hand picked by Jesus Christ Himself. The 144k are sealed by an angel. The angel is not going around looking for people saying the sinners prayer of confession. The angel seals those determined by God to be sealed.

The Holy Spirit is omnipresent. But does not seem to be actively saving people outside of possibly Israel. That's the one I can't rule out because they're on Earth during the wrath of God.

 

[JulieB67]

I am pretty sure in verse 7 it was Sodom going after the angels,

Verse 6 specifically points out that it's the angels these verses are talking about. They're the ones in chains for the sin that was committed.


Jude 6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."


Those angels are in everlasting chains unto the judgment of the great day. Why are they in chains? The very next verse tells us.

Jude 7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, in like manner giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Both Sodom and Gomorrah and the angels gave themselves over to fornication and went after strange flesh. These are two different instances but both are the same example. The angels did it when they mated with the daughters of men in Genesis 6 and we know what happened with Sodom and Gomorrah later on. But these two verses in Jude are talking about the angels and then explains in like manner that Sodom and Gomorrah went after strange flesh as well and we know that was of the same sex variety. But the point is neither was natural. The sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair so they left their own habitation and took them as wives. Noah was perfect in his generations, meaning pedigree/family. His had not mixed.

 

[Timtofly]

Those angels are in everlasting chains unto the judgment of the great day. Why are they in chains? The very next verse tells us.

The next verse tells us about Sodom almost 2,000 years later. It is what the Sodomites did, not the angels.

The angels are in chains, because they could not come to earth, period. They left heaven in solidarity with Satan. That was their issue. No verse says they showed up on earth, except in a book called Enoch that was written within a few hundred years of Jesus on earth.

The argument is: the angels in Jude were the angels in Genesis 6, because the Sodomites were Sodomites. How is that an argument based in reality? That is conjecture.

 

[JulieB67]

How is that an argument based in reality?

How is your's when reading these two verses which do not make sense if one thinks we are talking human/human

Genesis 6:1 "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,"

This verse tells us already that men and women were marrying, multiplying, etc and having daughters. Men can't multiply without women giving birth,etc. It doesn't matter who they are, these are human men and women multiplying, having offspring.

The thought continues,

Genesis 6:2 "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

People can spin this in any fashion but the two verses do not make sense if we are merely talking human men and women in verse 2. First that's completely redundant. Secondly, it's not normal that giants were being born out normal offspring between human men and women. But if that's your "reality" than fine. I'm fine with mine as well.

 

[Timtofly]

How is your's when reading these two verses which do not make sense if one thinks we are talking human/human

Genesis 6:1 "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,"

This verse tells us already that men and women were marrying, multiplying, etc and having daughters. Men can't multiply without women giving birth,etc. It doesn't matter who they are, these are human men and women multiplying, having offspring.

The thought continues,

Genesis 6:2 "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

People can spin this in any fashion but the two verses do not make sense if we are merely talking human men and women in verse 2. First that's completely redundant. Secondly, it's not normal that giants were being born out normal offspring between human men and women. But if that's your "reality" than fine. I'm fine with mine as well.

Do you understand the difference between Adam's dead corruptible flesh, and God's permanent incorruptible physical body?

Adam's flesh is temporal fading away. The physical body of God is permanent that cannot decay nor fade away.

Do you have an issue that God's permanent body was created larger than Adam's dead flesh? You seem to have no problem that angels are larger than humans. It was never about them being human. It was about the sin that Adam's offspring carried with them, and the fact that Adam lost the physical body he was created with.

It was not the angels that corrupted Adam's dead corruptible flesh. It was already corrupted. Adam's daughters would have corrupted the angels, and turned them into disobedience creatures. The daughters of Adam corrupted the perfect sons of God.

You have it that perfect created angels corrupted Adam's flesh, the wrong direction of corruption. The sons of God did not corrupt Adam's flesh, it was Adam's flesh that corrupted the sons of God.

The angels were not involved in this corruption. If there were giants before Adam even disobeyed God in the Garden of old, already ancient, then Adam was not the only son of God. There were many generations of sons of God hundreds of years, a thousand to be more exact, before Adam disobeyed and brought sin into the world, and hundreds of years after Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden. What happened in Genesis 6 could have been over 30 generations after the 6th day creation of humanity. Are you saying the angels were around procreating with humans for over 24 generations, and then suddenly those last few generations became corrupted and wicked? Once again it was Adam the only son of God who brought sin into the world, and death by sin. The sons of God those created on the 6th day became corrupted from the daughters of Adam. The offspring allowed giants into Adam's dead corruptible flesh. But the offspring were also sons of God in Adam's image, and no longer in God's image.

Now human flesh would be strange to angels. How much more so the sons of God, humans created in the image of God saw the strange flesh that was dead and corrupted by Adam's disobedience and was no longer God's image but the image of sin and disobedience that enticed the perfect without defect sons of God. Sin may be pleasurable for a season, but the end is death, and all that remained on earth was corruption that had to be destroyed.

 

[JulieB67]

The angels were not involved in this corruption. If there were giants before Adam even disobeyed God in the Garden of old, already ancient, then Adam was not the only son of God. There were many generations of sons of God hundreds of years, a thousand to be more exact, before Adam disobeyed and brought sin into the world, and hundreds of years after Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden. What happened in Genesis 6 could have been over 30 generations after the 6th day creation of humanity. Are you saying the angels were around procreating with humans for over 24 generations, and then suddenly those last few generations became corrupted and wicked? Once again it was Adam the only son of God who brought sin into the world, and death by sin. The sons of God those created on the 6th day became corrupted from the daughters of Adam. The offspring allowed giants into Adam's dead corruptible flesh. But the offspring were also sons of God in Adam's image, and no longer in God's image.

I'll let the actual scriptures speak for themselves.

 

[Timtofly]

I'll let the actual scriptures speak for themselves.

That is Scripture speaking. Your added human theology is not Scripture.