Ranger versus Commando

[Imaginosis]

Which has tougher training: American Army Ranger School or British Royal Marine Commando School? Which is more pretigious?

 

[3girls2dogs]

What about Navy Seal Training, or plain old Marine Corps Boot Camp?

 

[Teufelhund]

They're all difficult in different ways, some more difficult for different people, the experience is completely different for everybody involved.

 

[Imaginosis]

They're all difficult in different ways, some more difficult for different people, the experience is completely different for everybody involved.

I tend to agree. In terms of sleep deprivation and insufficient food resulting in weight loss for most, which can be very difficult for some, Ranger is tougher than any other special forces training I can think of. In terms of cardiovascular stamina, really pushing it to the limit (e.g., 5 mile oceans swims, running with heavy packs for 20 miles) SEAL training is among the toughest in the world.

I once spoke to a Ranger who said he saw SEALs quit Ranger school. His explanation was that SEALs weren't used to the sleep deprivation Ranger school had. SEAL training has sleep deprivation (e.g., Hell Week), but Ranger trainees, on average, get less sleep per day than SEAL trainees.

 

[RangerJoe]

From someone who went through Ranger school....It was one of the hardest moments in my life. The physical exertion they put you under, plus the emotional duress is indescribable. Add a maximum of 3 1/2 to 4 hours of sleep a night to that equation and you get the desire to quit repeatedly.

Anyone who has the stones to apply for SF is automatically hard core in my opinion. I hear the whole Recon vs SEAL vs Ranger argument all the time...Here's my opinion.

Marine recon guys are nuts. These are the forward advance teams that go in after HPTs and usually go in under manned and under equipped. There is little or no intel on the sitrep and a lot of it is based off quick thinking and instinct.

SEALS: They specialize in a very specific aspect of advanced warfare. They are masters of Underwater Demo ops and beach launched snatch and grabs.

Ranger (my personal favorite for obvious reasons): Rangers are trained to be able to exist and fight in all environments from the hottest deserts of the middle east to the coldest regions of the Siberian Tundras, Rangers Lead the Way. However, they (in my opinion) are not as suited for stealth missions like your Green Berets or SEALS. I've always considered the Rangers to be the equivalent of the Army's SWAT team. We roll hard, deep and fast and we fight to win when we get there.

One thing your forgetting though is the Air Force Combat Controller. These guys HALO in and clear an enemy encampment, demo buildings and call in air strikes...then they build a bloody airfield so the rest of us can get there.

As far as British SAS goes...I'm not familiar with their training so I couldn't make an accurate judgment on their abilities...the ones I met seemed like nice enough blokes though.


I had 40 people in RIP. 4 of us graduated. Maybe mine was just an odd group...but it sure was surreal to see the numbers drop like that.

RLTW....ATW

 

[Imaginosis]

From someone who went through Ranger school....It was one of the hardest moments in my life. The physical exertion they put you under, plus the emotional duress is indescribable. Add a maximum of 3 1/2 to 4 hours of sleep a night to that equation and you get the desire to quit repeatedly.

Why is Ranger school more physically punishing than the Special Forces Assessment/Selection and Q Course? I was of the impression that Special Forces are more elite, deep behind the lines and such. Therefore, one would assume it would have more physically demanding training. Yes, their missions are different, but why the discrepancy?

 

[RangerJoe]

Why is Ranger school more physically punishing than the Special Forces Assessment/Selection and Q Course? I was of the impression that Special Forces are more elite, deep behind the lines and such. Therefore, one would assume it would have more physically demanding training. Yes, their missions are different, but why the discrepancy?

Rangers go anywhere. Green Berets...(now I could be wrong) I always thought they were trained for the deep cover behind the lines style training while the Rangers were more combat oriented. Now mind you, I dont think for a second that a squad of GBs couldn't do rediculous amounts of damage...I just figured the amount of training that goes into the languages they have to learn, etc.

I also consider Special Forces to be any elite unit. SEALS, Ranger, Recon, Green Beret, Combat Controller...They are all the groups that DELTA uses when selecting operatives.

The biggest thing for me in RIP as stated earlier is the sleep deprivation. Trying to qualify with the M4 when you haven't slept in two days is rediculous...your eyes..they just don't work the same. Nor do your muscles.

Honestly? Every special forces organization in the world puts out top of the line warriors prepared to take on any situation. When it comes down to the wire, the live or die determination is based simply on team work and cooperation, IMHO.

 

[Imaginosis]

I also consider Special Forces to be any elite unit. SEALS, Ranger, Recon, Green Beret, Combat Controller...They are all the groups that DELTA uses when selecting operatives.

DELTA selection must have have some intense stressors because a lot Rangers and Green Berets wash out. That navigation course lasting weeks going over steep mountains while carrying a heavy pack must wreck havoc on candidates.

 

[RangerJoe]

DELTA selection must have have some intense stressors because a lot Rangers and Green Berets wash out. That navigation course lasting weeks going over steep mountains while carrying a heavy pack must wreck havoc on candidates.

Hooah...I agree with that.

DELTA is the best of the best. After going through RIP I couldn't even -fathom- a program that would make me wash out, but I've heard of the Elite washing out of DELTA training. Makes me wonder about what's above DELTA. Oh, for higher security clearances...LOL

 

[Imaginosis]

Hooah...I agree with that.

DELTA is the best of the best. After going through RIP I couldn't even -fathom- a program that would make me wash out, but I've heard of the Elite washing out of DELTA training. Makes me wonder about what's above DELTA. Oh, for higher security clearances...LOL

What makes Delta Force Selection so mentally and physically demanding is that it involves an intense navigation course, hiking alone over steep mountains for days on, from sunrise to sunset. Instructors never tell candidates what the navigation time limits are, if they're meeting the time limits, nor give positive/negative moral encouragement. This eventually wears down a candidates resolve. The psychological stress, coupled with extreme fatigued, of not knowing if time limits are being achieved becomes to much for most. And, mind you, this is only the screening process for formal Delta training!!

I wouldn't be surprised if SEALS washed out of Delta Selection. Although BUD/S is very intense, unlike Delta Selection, candidates can acquire moral encouragement, to some degree, from each other.

Delta trainees are scrutinized much more intensely by psychologist during selection/assessment than candidates going through BUD/S.

Have you heard of SEALS washing out of Delta Selection? I've heard of them washing out of Ranger school because they just couldn't swallow their egos because of a superiority complex (ie, SEALS are the best), or because they weren't used to the sleep deprivation.

 

[Imaginosis]

Hooah...I agree with that.

DELTA is the best of the best. After going through RIP I couldn't even -fathom- a program that would make me wash out, but I've heard of the Elite washing out of DELTA training. Makes me wonder about what's above DELTA. Oh, for higher security clearances...LOL

The Intelligence Support Activity is a highly secretive unit, almost mythical amongst special ops. It has very high standards comparable to Delta, with an intelligence gathering mission. This was the unit that perfected HAHO parachuting.

 

[k2svpete]

As has been said, every SF unit in the world puts out highly trained individuals but the standard and skills varies immensly between them.

Speaking from an Australian POV, our SAS is unique in that they are trained and operate in couter-terrorism, amphibious work and are the only SF group that has consistently maintained a deep recce role. That is why they were specifically asked for in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We also have our commandos who are drawn from the regular army but are trained in parachute & amphibious ops and some CT work. Essentially similar to the SAS but on a larger scale.

The regualar Aust soldier is highly trained in a number of different areas. Due to the small nature of our defence force there is a high degree of cross-training and the standards are quite high.

Over 11 years in the Army I have been trained to operate nearly every weapons system we use, I can call in fast jets, helicopter gunships, all indirect support fires, work in mech, motorised or foot operations, urban, jungle or arid areas, infantry tactics, basic use of armour, use of artillery and more. I have exercised with other nations and seen the differences first hand. As much as anything the mental approach taken by the soldiers differentiates them more than anything.

In the example given in the OP, I'd lean towards the the Royal Marines. They are specialists and they are very good at what they do.

 

[Screamin'Eagle]

What about Navy Seal Training, or plain old Marine Corps Boot Camp?

Are you serious? Marine corps basic training tougher than ranger training? Thats just plain silly. Marine corps basic training is not even that much more difficult than the armys. Infact ill go ahead and say its not anymore difficult at all it just lasts a slight bit longer. Id personally rather have gone through basic in san diego or parris island than fort benning!

As to the original post. Probably the british. The rangers are spec ops, where as british commandos are special forces. There is a difference. The correct thing to be comparing them too would be the US armys Green Berets.

 

[Sakaragi]

pssshh, that's what all you army guys say! We had a previous service army go through boot with us, and he said the first two weeks were harder than the entire time at army boot camp! Pick your poison, hiking up mountains, getting hypothermia from freezing rain, or being eaten alive by sand fleas!

but seriously, I think recon guys don't get enough love. I've had to experience them firsthand in a field exercise, and those guys will tear you up before you realize they're there!

You can't really compare the training, because all elite units seem to have a strong sense of tradition, and it makes each one have very unique training, although the SEALS was newer and took some things from Recon if I'm not just making things up.

 

[Screamin'Eagle]

pssshh, that's what all you army guys say! We had a previous service army go through boot with us, and he said the first two weeks were harder than the entire time at army boot camp! Pick your poison, hiking up mountains, getting hypothermia from freezing rain, or being eaten alive by sand fleas!

but seriously, I think recon guys don't get enough love. I've had to experience them firsthand in a field exercise, and those guys will tear you up before you realize they're there!

You can't really compare the training, because all elite units seem to have a strong sense of tradition, and it makes each one have very unique training, although the SEALS was newer and took some things from Recon if I'm not just making things up.

Your point? lol.

Pick your poisen. Hiking up mountains, wading through swamps, getting heat stroke from 100 + degree weather and 90% humidity, digging ticks out of your skin every single night, being eaten alive by chiggers and fire ants, getting bit by snakes and gators. You guys dont have it any harder.

 

[NeverClever]

but seriously, I think recon guys don't get enough love.

Becuase they are not part of SOCOM.

What makes Delta Force Selection so mentally and physically demanding is that it involves an intense navigation course, hiking alone over steep mountains for days on, from sunrise to sunset. Instructors never tell candidates what the navigation time limits are, if they're meeting the time limits, nor give positive/negative moral encouragement. This eventually wears down a candidates resolve. The psychological stress, coupled with extreme fatigued, of not knowing if time limits are being achieved becomes to much for most. And, mind you, this is only the screening process for formal Delta training!!

DELTA Selection is almost identical to SF Selection, except the land nav. course is 40 miles with a 45 pound ruck with legs no longer then 7 or 8 miles.

In my opinion, from what "wash outs" have told me, is that passing their selection doesn't gaurentee anything, but rather making it thru the Shooter's course and then hoping they think you'll fit on a team, if you don't, they'll let you go.

Why is Ranger school more physically punishing than the Special Forces Assessment/Selection and Q Course?

It's not. The SUT course can blow Ranger School out of the water. Remember, Ranger School is under TRADOC ( Training and Doctrine Command ) and they have toned Ranger School down over the years, but the SUT ( small unit tactics ) is not under the same restrictions.

However, thats the Q course. Selection isn't really a weeding out process as much as the Q-course is now a days.

I've heard of them washing out of Ranger school because they just couldn't swallow their egos because of a superiority complex (ie, SEALS are the best), or because they weren't used to the sleep deprivation.

I think that is a reflection apaun the person, rather then their service.

I also consider Special Forces to be any elite unit. SEALS, Ranger, Recon, Green Beret, Combat Controller...They are all the groups that DELTA uses when selecting operatives.

Anyone on active duty in the Regular Army, can apply for the DELTA selection.

 

[NeverClever]

What about Navy Seal Training, or plain old Marine Corps Boot Camp?

Not all of us have the honor of being a Marine mam'

 

[NeverClever]

Are you serious?

I imagine she is and I don't think she was trying to engage in any sort of branch rivalry either, tho it may seem like it. I'm not sure what kind of exposure you have had with Marines, but once you understand their mentality, it provides a much better context for her comment.

As to the original post. Probably the british. The rangers are spec ops, where as british commandos are special forces. There is a difference.

Then why are both the 75th Ranger Regiment and Special Forces under SOCOM (Special Operations Command) ? Why is the "SF Sniper school" called Special Operations Target Interdiction Course?

I don't think it's fair to classify mission as either "Special Operations" or "Special Forces"

 

[marine005]

Lets all band together and decree success to the US military.