Random thoughts to consider....

[Chickapee]

wow Great thoughts Fire !

THE belly as sheol grave as Jesus saith he would be in the heart of the earth as Jonhas was in the belly of the whale / great fish Strong's H990 - beten
From an unused root probably meaning to be hollow
1) belly, womb, body
a) belly, abdomen
1) as seat of hunger
2) as seat of mental faculties
3) of depth of Sheol (fig.)
b) womb

that was the hebrew meaning here we see the greek in the new Testament Strong's G2836 - koilia
1) the whole belly, the entire cavity
a) the upper [i.e. stomach] and the lower belly are distinguished
2) the lower belly, the lower region, the receptacle of the excrement
3) the gullet
a) to be given up to the pleasures of the palate, to gluttony
4) the womb, the place where the foetus is conceived and nourished until birth
a) of the uterus of animals
5) the innermost part of a man, the soul, heart as the seat of thought, feeling, choice

the belly/ soul is for hunger Pro 13:25The righteous eateth to the satisfying of his soul: but the belly of the wicked shall want.

they lack and in constant need to KILL!!
and the righteous shall be filled WITH JESUS / fruits of the Spirit/ the soul not being joined to His Spirit


Mat 5:6Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Phl 1:11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.



comparing these

1Cr 6:13Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body [is] not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

Phl 3:19Whose end [is] destruction, whose God [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.)the things of the earth and carnal mindedness thats cursed to die ! Gen 3:17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; ground here is Strong's H127 - 'adamah

adamah
1) ground, land
a) ground (as general, tilled, yielding sustenance)
b) piece of ground, a specific plot of land
c) earth substance (for building or constructing)
d) ground as earth's visible surface
e) land, territory, country
f) whole inhabited earth
g) city in Naphtali


From אָדַם (H119) 'adam
1) to be red, red
a) (Qal) ruddy (of Nazarites)
b) (Pual)
1) to be rubbed red
2) dyed red
3) reddened
c) (Hiphil)
1) to cause to show red
2) to glare
3) to emit (show) redness
d) (Hithpael)
1) to redden
2) to grow red
3) to look red

I see Adam as the wrath of man that does NOT WORK the righteouness of God ...
seeing red could be shame and wrath carnal mind Gen 2:7And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

man here is Strong's H120 - 'adam
1) man, mankind
a) man, human being
b) man, mankind (much more frequently intended sense in OT)
c) Adam, first man
d) city in Jordan valley

the soul and the Spirit have to be joined to Jesus Christ do the Works of righteouness

and the body is Christ than

we are His possesion Rom 7:4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 2Cr 10:7Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he [is] Christ's, even so [are] we Christ's.2Cr 10:16 To preach the gospel in the [regions] beyond you, [and] not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand. But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

 

[Chickapee]

wow Great thoughts Fire !

THE belly as sheol grave as Jesus saith he would be in the heart of the earth as Jonhas was in the belly of the whale / great fish Strong's H990 - beten
From an unused root probably meaning to be hollow
1) belly, womb, body
a) belly, abdomen
1) as seat of hunger
2) as seat of mental faculties
3) of depth of Sheol (fig.)
b) womb

that was the hebrew meaning here we see the greek in the new Testament Strong's G2836 - koilia
1) the whole belly, the entire cavity
a) the upper [i.e. stomach] and the lower belly are distinguished
2) the lower belly, the lower region, the receptacle of the excrement
3) the gullet
a) to be given up to the pleasures of the palate, to gluttony
4) the womb, the place where the foetus is conceived and nourished until birth
a) of the uterus of animals
5) the innermost part of a man, the soul, heart as the seat of thought, feeling, choice

the belly/ soul is for hunger Pro 13:25The righteous eateth to the satisfying of his soul: but the belly of the wicked shall want.

they lack and in constant need to KILL!!
and the righteous shall be filled WITH JESUS / fruits of the Spirit/ the soul not being joined to His Spirit


Mat 5:6Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Phl 1:11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.



comparing these

1Cr 6:13Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body [is] not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

Phl 3:19Whose end [is] destruction, whose God [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.)the things of the earth and carnal mindedness thats cursed to die ! Gen 3:17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; ground here is Strong's H127 - 'adamah

adamah
1) ground, land
a) ground (as general, tilled, yielding sustenance)
b) piece of ground, a specific plot of land
c) earth substance (for building or constructing)
d) ground as earth's visible surface
e) land, territory, country
f) whole inhabited earth
g) city in Naphtali


From אָדַם (H119) 'adam
1) to be red, red
a) (Qal) ruddy (of Nazarites)
b) (Pual)
1) to be rubbed red
2) dyed red
3) reddened
c) (Hiphil)
1) to cause to show red
2) to glare
3) to emit (show) redness
d) (Hithpael)
1) to redden
2) to grow red
3) to look red

I see Adam as the wrath of man that does NOT WORK the righteouness of God ...
seeing red could be shame and wrath carnal mind Gen 2:7And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

man here is Strong's H120 - 'adam
1) man, mankind
a) man, human being
b) man, mankind (much more frequently intended sense in OT)
c) Adam, first man
d) city in Jordan valley

the soul and the Spirit have to be joined to Jesus Christ do the Works of righteouness

and the body is Christ than

we are His possesion Rom 7:4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 2Cr 10:7Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he [is] Christ's, even so [are] we Christ's.2Cr 10:16 To preach the gospel in the [regions] beyond you, [and] not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand. But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Very Kool Chicapee, lots to chew on sis

 

[Chickapee]

I do not want to get off track of the posts above , but I saw this and made me look again ... aftert looking into the cursed ground and how it pertains to the work/ toil of our hands Gen 3:17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;

Gen 5:29And he called his name Noah, saying, This [same] shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.


this comfort concerning them Noah = "rest" was saved from the flood by the Ark

I know its a stretch , but I thought of the land and its new name after the flood

being Ararat

(From Hitchcock's Bible Names) the curse of trembling


​

Ararat (Easton's Bible Dictionary) :: Bible Tools
strongs Strong's H780 - 'Ararat = "the curse reversed: precipitation of curse") a mountainous region of eastern Armenia, between the river Araxes and the lakes Van and Oroomiah, the site where Noah's ark came to rest2) (TWOT) the mountain where Noah's ark came to rest
I see a beautiful
picture here of those being saved by the Water /Word of God because they were in the Ark of the covenant with God in obedience and those outside
were destroyed by the flood because of unbelief ..Gen 7:17And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

and cannot help but wonder if this also is connected Mat 24:38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Mat 24:39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.



this being an eternal word as well as the promise that Fire would be the destruction on the promise to come in Peters speech
Gen 9:11And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

2Pe 3:10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.[Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,

2Pe 3:12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?


Gal 4:3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

I am wondering if this change is also to do with the new Covenant change ? C

 

[Fireinfolding]

Chicapee, been thinking on this part

Gen 3:16 .... cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Gen 5:29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.

Ararat = "the curse reversed:"

Noah found "grace" in the eyes of God the same shall "comfort us concerning the work and toil of our hands

2Thes 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

I do see similiarities sis

Gen 3:16 .... cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;


Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee

John 19:5 Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns

Cant order it up just see some similiarities between them

Do you think it has to do with a correlation between first and last Adam?

Adam was to work the ground (from where he was taken) by the sweat of his face, and in last Adam (Christ) he sweat great drops of blood in a garden. The ground into which the drops of blood fell in first Adam (under the curse) would yeild thorns and in last Adam (Christ) was given a crown of them (redeeming us from the curse)? The soul that sinneth (as Adam was a living soul) shall die, and in Christ (last Adam, made a life quickening spirit) who spake of the sorrows of death compassing him, and who made even his soul an offering? As His soul was made sorrowful unto death (in the garden)?

The shedding of blood (His) was for the forgiveness of sins (of the first covenant). He established the New covenant in His blood (crucifying the FIRST/ OLD man) being a partaker of our nature, condemning sin in the flesh and establishing the new for the remission of these. Afterall we (In Him) we become ONE NEW man.

Theres the disobedience of one in First Adam (sin unto death) and the obedience of one (even unto death) in Last Adam, Jesus Christ.

Wrapped up in between the pictures are two gardens, two trees, two covenants, two men etc.

Though right at before the flood is the numbering of mans days which fall on Moses, I think me and you discussed that before the prophecy, the number of years and the figures appear to match up beatifully.

See the connection established here...

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with MAN, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Duet 34:7 MOSES was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.


Death reigning is under the name of two men, Adam unto Moses yet in Genesis mans days are numbered in years (120 years) and those years exactly fall to Moses

Genesis 6:2 God numbered mans days 120 (years) and this just before the flood. Herein lies the similitude of baptism (as mentioned in 1Peter 3:21). Moses age (when he died) is recorded at 120 years in Duet 34:7 (and this also, just before the Jordan (which is also another figure of baptism). The law and the prophets prophesied until John (who baptized in the Jordan) these appear to equal, not only in times (as in years) but in figures. In the first its God himself saying "man is flesh" (to be destroyed). And Moses in accord with those exact number of years died and it was God who burried him) adding (in Duet 34:7) that Moses "natural force" was not abated nor was his eye dim. Which Im not yet sure how to regard yet (before his death or after it) because it speaks of a testament being of force (as well) but I also wondered (though I could be wrong here) if it could be showing a spiritual truth as well? The same appears to speak in accord with the law putting Paul to death (he said, I DIED) yet neither did his natural force abate. Paul then (through the Spirit of life in Christ) was also "no more in the flesh" but "in the Spirit" (after a spiritual truth) which appears (so far) to cordinate in accord with all three pictures.

The last part I still question though, I only see in part and sorta examine everything here and there.

But sure, even there between them all mirrors two covenants in various ways, then you have Jesus standing in and out of the water as well and a dove (we can catch a similitude in Noah) resting on Jesus (before which) returned to Noah with an olive leaf in its mouth, so there appears to be alot hidden in there which one can catch glimpses of Jesus Christ.

Had to think about that one overnight

 

[Chickapee]

I can see this in glimpses !! that IS awesome!!! WOW , the Old testament and New speak of the Same things always
and the Old speaks of the Son coming making everything right and new and the New Speaks of the Father keeping His promises of old perfectly ! what a work the Spirit of God is doing though Jesus Christ I am truly amazed ...

I also remember that Moses being a servant of God and man of God , under the Law and ministration of death those things that needs to die in order for new Life to come
till the change from servant to Son , when Jesus Christ though the eternal Spirit in the End makes perfect Gods will and promise to those called out from the world into the new name written in the book of Life

here a servant and things to come ,

Hbr 3:5And Moses verily [was] faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

Rev 15:3And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] thy ways, thou King of saints.
something here thats interesting to me was how Moses under the Law according to the pattern sprinkled the blood of calves and goats on the book and people , but not lambs blood ??? Hbr 9:19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,Saying, This [is] the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

because in John the baptist testimony he saids ''Behold the LAMB'' that takes away the sins of the world , the blood of calves and goats could never purge forever , but year to year

But God making the Lamb / Jesus Christ the eternal sacrifice , in the fulness of time once for all time , this to me is very signifigant about the Cross and the turning point made by God , this grace was not to be taken lightly nor cast off as

a small thing in any sense of the Word , there are tons of scriptures to confirm this , but will not put them all down , we have to look for ourselves as the Spirit of the Holy Father teaches us to go deeper and seek His face in these matters

there is great blessing in looking and the Lord confirming , quicking these wonderful truths to any of us whom God has called out of the world into His marvelous Light / Wisdom to know Him and believe Him with ...

 

[Fireinfolding]

because in John the baptist testimony he saids ''Behold the LAMB'' that takes away the sins of the world , the blood of calves and goats could never purge forever , but year to year .

One sacrifice, still working the figures out myself

Jos 3:18 Behold, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth passeth over before you into Jordan.

Wherein the ark

Duet 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou **brakest**, and thou shalt put them in the ark.

Contrarywise...

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have **kept** my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Behold the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth passeth over BEFORE YOU into the Jordan

Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The temple destroyed and raised up by the power of God (His body)


Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Death of the testor, die to the law through the body of Christ

1Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Though he was an husband to them under the first covenant dying to the law through the body (temple of God) Jesus Christ that we might marry another He who is raised from the dead.

Do you think when it says, I am no widow might indicate still married to God through the law? because its there its says, "though I was an husband to them" yet speaks of "the law of ones husband" and being loosed from the law of ones husband to marry another (this in accord with dying to the law specifically through the body of Christ that we might marry another (Him) who is been raised from the dead that we might bear fruit unto God? Not sure if I worded that rightly, given the second set of the tables of stone (like the first) were in the ark along with the book of the law of which Christ is called "the end of the law" fulfilling those things concerning him, yet we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith, that according to the spirit which writes His laws upon our hearts (fleshly tables of the hearts) not on tables of stone, through the circumcision of Christ who fulfilled the righteousness of the law and the righteousness of the same (Christ) formed in us?

I wish I could word this stuff better, trying to get my similitudes in order here Thats not always as easy as I wished it were, in time perhaps

 

[Chickapee]

Though he was an husband to them under the first covenant dying to the law through the body (temple of God) Jesus Christ that we might marry another He who is raised from the dead.

Do you think when it says, I am no widow might indicate still married to God through the law? because its there its says, "though I was an husband to them" yet speaks of "the law of ones husband" and being loosed from the law of ones husband to marry another (this in accord with dying to the law specifically through the body of Christ that we might marry another (Him) who is been raised from the dead that we might bear fruit unto God? Not sure if I worded that rightly, given the second set of the tables of stone (like the first) were in the ark along with the book of the law of which Christ is called "the end of the law" fulfilling those things concerning him, yet we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith, that according to the spirit which writes His laws upon our hearts (fleshly tables of the hearts) not on tables of stone, through the circumcision of Christ who fulfilled the righteousness of the law and the righteousness of the same (Christ) formed in us?

I wish I could word this stuff better, trying to get my similitudes in order here Thats not always as easy as I wished it were, in time perhaps

I believe you do a good job bringing out the right scriptures Sis
Tis I who struggles to keep things in order and clear and spoken rightly in turn ..
I do believe the first Adam was the husband that dies Gen 3:16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

the comparing the Woman / Church to the first Adam and Eve
and the Lord Jesus Christ and the true Church

the woman/ church being the weaker vessel
is a helpmeet to Him
bearing the children
Rev 12:1¶And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

she brings fourth the man child
seed/ heir to the promise
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.
Jesus is that first fruit of the increase of God

but this goes on to tell those born again out of the world
having the commandments of God and testimony of Jesus Christ

so that would show us that it is a continuing promise being met Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.




no widow as I understand this part is those whom are of Babylon
made childless and a widow in one hour

because of the marriage was in name only and she was unfaithful to the True and Living God , with many lovers Isa 4:1And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel:


only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
Jer 3:1They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him,

and become another man's, shall he return unto her again?


shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.Hsa 2:5For their mother hath played the harlot: she that conceived them hath done shamefully: for she said, I will go after my lovers, that give [me] my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, mine oil and my drink.

Rev 17:5And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.idolatry and unfaithfulness confusion by mixing
just some things that made me think some more

I dont have them clearly ...at all

 

[Fireinfolding]

I believe you do a good job bringing out the right scriptures Sis
Tis I who struggles to keep things in order and clear and spoken rightly in turn ..
I do believe the first Adam was the husband that dies Gen 3:16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

the comparing the Woman / Church to the first Adam and Eve
and the Lord Jesus Christ and the true Church

the woman/ church being the weaker vessel
is a helpmeet to Him
bearing the children
Rev 12:1¶And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

she brings fourth the man child
seed/ heir to the promise
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.
Jesus is that first fruit of the increase of God

but this goes on to tell those born again out of the world
having the commandments of God and testimony of Jesus Christ

so that would show us that it is a continuing promise being met Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.




no widow as I understand this part is those whom are of Babylon
made childless and a widow in one hour

because of the marriage was in name only and she was unfaithful to the True and Living God , with many lovers Isa 4:1And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel:


only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
Jer 3:1They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him,

and become another man's, shall he return unto her again?


shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.Hsa 2:5For their mother hath played the harlot: she that conceived them hath done shamefully: for she said, I will go after my lovers, that give [me] my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, mine oil and my drink.

Rev 17:5And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.idolatry and unfaithfulness confusion by mixing
just some things that made me think some more

I dont have them clearly ...at all

I can kinda see both sis, not sure look how this is worded

Jerm 31:31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jerm 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

He was a husband to them (as it pertained to a covenant)

Now here...


Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married **to** another man.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye **also** are become dead to **the law** by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even **to** him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Ever notice that? Death reigning is from both Adam to Moses (by whom came the law) are concluded together under the reign of death (and which pertains to the flesh). Both appear concluded under the first man (Adam old man) and the first covenant (the law) together even though He was an husband to them, thats sorta how I was regarding it.

Yet (its sorta ironic, as you point out) if her desire would be for her husband, Paul was dealing with their desire here as well

Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Then ofcourse he continues to go into the two women and two covenants

They appear to go together somehow, not exclusive of the figue of Adam because the reign of death is named of two, Adam (first man) and Moses (through whom the law came) or the first covenant wherein God said he was an husband to them but would cut a new covenant (which come by Christ) he who is raised from the dead= married to another (in that respect)

Make better sense?

 

[Chickapee]

Yeah , thanks for pointing that out !

I do need to read all of Romans 7 again , its been awhile

AWESOME things to consider Fire ...

God is as Husband and husbandman Jhn 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Strong's G1092 - geōrgos 1) a husbandman, tiller of the soil, a vine dresser

God is everything ! wow !

 

[Wheeler]

Hi Chickapee and Fireinfolding,

I have been reading through your posts and it brought many things to mind.


There are many in the church who are “dead in Christ”….they love not their brothers because of their doctrines and commandments of men that keep them divided in darkness. These doctrines prevent them from loving others as they should. Those who are living in envy, strife, hatred are abiding in “death.” Yet, the sacrifice of Jesus covers their sins of ignorance…they know what they do.

(1 John 3:14 KJV) We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Those in darkness mind earthly things….they look upon the “outer letter” of the Scriptures and live the Bible as a literal rule book instead of living after the Spirit…keeping the doctrine of Christ….which is to love one another.

(Rom 8:5 KJV) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

To be carnally minded is “death.” It is not subject to the law of God….to love one another. God is love.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Those that are carnally-minded cannot please God.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Man’s doctrines and commandments keep its adherents as carnal children….living in envying, strife and divisions…..denominational hatred. There is no love and peace because of the carnal mind.

(1 Cor 3:3 KJV) For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Those that live that way are the “dead”…..they do NOT praise the Lord. They cannot please God because they are living in the flesh…in envy, strife and hatred of one another. God is love…..and those who do not have love, have not God dwelling in them….they are not the “living.” God is God of the “living”…those who walk after the Spirit.

(Psa 115:17 KJV) The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

God is God of the living.

(Mat 22:31 KJV) But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

God will awaken those many who are currently “asleep”…..those who are “dead”….those who walk after the flesh instead of the Spirit. He will bring life to those who are in their “graves” so that they may worship Him in Spirit and in TRUTH.

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

For if one lives after the flesh….after the lusts of religious man…according to his commandments and doctrines, then there is “death”….there is hatred, envy, strife waiting for those who enter through the wide gate of false prophets.

(Rom 8:13 KJV) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Religious man has looked upon the outer letter of the Scriptures and has fallen into temptation. Like the woman in the garden, man has desired to be wise. He has leaned upon his own understanding…his own wisdom of the Bible. He has taken of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He has formed his own doctrines and commandments and eaten of its fruit. Religious man has tried to make God with the works of his own hands….. making his own commandments of what is good and evil according to his earthly understanding of the Scriptures. Religious man teaches others his own erroneous way to be righteous…his own way of salvation. But he teaches deception…he leads others astray down the path of ruin…into strife and envy and hatred. This brings forth fruit unto “death.”

(Gen 3:6 KJV) And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Religious man has taken the earthly-understanding of the Scriptures and made his own works of “righteousness” to cover himself.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

As the woman in the garden saw that the tree was good and was pleasant to the eyes and desired to be wise, religious man also lusts for the things of this world….the lust of the eyes and the pride of this life.

(1 John 2:16 KJV) For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Religious man has been tempted and drawn away from the Truth by his own lust and enticed. When lust has conceived it brings forth sin ….and when sin is finished, it brings forth “death.” Religious man has been tempted to live by the “outer letter” of the Scriptures as if it was a rule book. He has not lived after the Spirit. He has succumbed to the temptation to form his own doctrines and commandments and work his own works of “righteousness.” His works are works of “death”…..causing envy, strife and hatred among the brothers and sisters.

(James 1:13 KJV) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

But the last Adam has tasted “death” also for every man. Man has his sins forgiven….although he is dead in sins and trespasses. Our Lord has forgiven us for our sins of ignorance….by the grace of God….His compassion on us.

(Heb 2:9 KJV) But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

“The woman whom thou gavest to be with me” = Israel, His people. “She gave me of the TREE”= Jesus died on the TREE/cross. “I did eat” = Jesus tasted death for every man. ….the “last Adam.”

(Gen 3:12 KJV) And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

In “sorrow” does religious man eat of the earthly-minded works of his own understanding of the Scriptures. The works of the flesh cause many people to live in divisions, envy and strife. There is no love, peace and joy in divisions. There are no fruits of the Spirit…there is no life….only the sorrow of the world.

(Gen 3:17 KJV) And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

The earthly-minded wisdom of religious man brings forth thorns….. the cares of this world….the lusts of things….the deceitfulness of riches

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

But thanks be to God, those that sleep shall awake from the dust to everlasting life in Him.

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The “sorrow” of this religious world works “death.”

2 Cor 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Instead of loving one another….instead of partaking of the tree of life…they partake of the tree of knowledge. They have “swerved” and turned aside to “vain jangling.” They have desired to be teachers of the law….of the tree of knowledge. They teach others to observe certain days, to follow precepts and rules, to follow practices that they look upon the Bible with their earthly, external wisdom. These works lead to division and hatred…. “death” ….sin brings forth “death.” There is only one doctrine we are to follow….to love one another…the doctrine of Christ….that sums up the law and the prophets.

(1 Tim 1:5 KJV) Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

The Word of the Lord is unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept….instead of resting in the Lord from their “works” of “death.”

(Isa 28:12 KJV) To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Those that will refuse to hear His revealed Word in this last day, shall “fall backward and be broken and snared and taken:”

13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

They are the “natural” brute beasts who will be taken and will perish in their own corruption. They will speak evil of the spiritual, revealed Word….scoffers following after their own lusts in the last time. They will continue on in their own earthly wisdom and works.

(2 Pet 2:12 KJV) But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

continued in next post....

 

[Wheeler]

....continued from previous post..





Our Lord has died for our sins though….he will come for those who are currently living in “death”…he comes to resurrect them into the Life of God with the revealed Word of God….with His knowledge and Truth. God is merciful and forgiving…not wanting any to perish. Our sins were done in ignorance….and He comes with the knowledge of the Truth. But we must believe in His revealed Word….we must believe and be saved. We must repent of our own religious ways and thoughts….we must deny our own religiousness taught by men that we have held onto tightly. Jesus is the Truth…we must follow after him.

(Mat 16:24 KJV) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Those that are in their “graves”….those bogged down in religious strife, envy, division, hatred….shall hear His voice and come forth.

(John 5:28 KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Those that receive the love of the revealed Truth and DO the Truth shall awaken to righteousness.....true LIFE. They will cast out their works of darkness and walk in the Light of Christ. But those who will refuse to hear the Truth, will come forth in their religious pride to speak evil of it. Like natural, brute beasts that are made to be broken and snared….they will perish in their own corruption. What they currently know now…doctrines and commandments of men…shall turn on them.

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

False preachers keep their subjects in the “grave.” There is no works of righteousness in the “grave”…..there is no knowledge of God in the grave……there is no wisdom of God in the grave. Man pursues after the things of this world in his own wisdom in the grave of denominations. But the Lord comes with His knowledge to enlighten our eyes....the Light shall shine in the "darkness" of our minds.

(Eccl 9:10 KJV) Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Those “MANY” (as compared to the “few” who have found true life in Christ) that are “asleep” in the “dust of the earth”….where there is the sorrow of the world….where there is “death”….where there is envy, strife and hated, shall “awake.” Some will awake to everlasting life because they will believe and do the revealed Truth….some will awake to shame and everlasting contempt because of their unbelieving heart of the Truth. They will seek to keep their current religious lives…the grand church buildings, the church riches, the great ministries, the wonderful works done in His name. We are to hear His Word and awake to LIFE in this last day….to pass from the “death” of hating one another into life.

(John 5:24 KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

How will we know that we pass from “death” unto life? By LOVING (tree of life) the brethren instead of hating (death.) His knowledge and Truth “awakens” us from the “graves.”

(1 John 3:14 KJV) We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


(Dan 12:2 KJV) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

This was all planned to reveal His glory in this last day. When He will “turn us again and cause His face to shine,” we shall be SAVED. When He will open us His Word for understanding, then we shall have His knowledge that can save us from our sins…from our hatred….from our strife.

(Psa 80:3 KJV) Turn us again, O God, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.

Then there shall be NO MORE CURSE. No more sorrow and tears that comes with relying upon religious mans thoughts and ways. We shall see His face and His name shall be in our foreheads.

(Rev 22:3 KJV) And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Then we shall be fruitful and increase.

(Jer 23:3 KJV) And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Great scripts Wheeler, have you ever noticed this verse too

Ephes 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The desires of the MIND, think that could also pertain to Eve, desire to make one WISE in that respect. Paul used the MIND being corrupted in the context of Eve (as well)

2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[Chickapee]

Amen Wheeler ,
You have shown us sleep and the sickness , its more of a ''condition ''
of the Church , or ones mind / heart not discerning the Body of Christ our Lord


For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Cr 11:30 For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

this is why we should judge ourselves



I have always wondered what the sickness unto death is that we are told not to pray for that ?

Jhn 11:4When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

is that because the Lord would not be glorified than ?

or the sin unto death is righteous judgment of God and we would be praying against Gods command ?



1Jo 5:16If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Thanks C ..

 

[Chickapee]

Great scripts Wheeler, have you ever noticed this verse too

Ephes 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The desires of the MIND, think that could also pertain to Eve, desire to make one WISE in that respect. Paul used the MIND being corrupted in the context of Eve (as well)

2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

, I thought of the mind to sis! the carnal mind in particular

being an enemy against the Spirit ...Hbr 10:16This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.
Thanks C

 

[Fireinfolding]

Amen Wheeler ,
You have shown us sleep and the sickness , its more of a ''condition ''
of the Church , or ones mind / heart not discerning the Body of Christ our Lord


For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Cr 11:30 For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

this is why we should judge ourselves



I have always wondered what the sickness unto death is that we are told not to pray for that ?

Jhn 11:4When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

is that because the Lord would not be glorified than ?

or the sin unto death is righteous judgment of God and we would be praying against Gods command ?



1Jo 5:16If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Thanks C ..

C, I always questioned this one, what is he talking about and pondered the ones we all think of, blaspheme against the Holy Spirit come first to mind, and I'm not saying that that wouldnt be it but I was looking at something I never caught before and I dont know how this ties in if at all.

For instance, Jesus says this (look how its worded)

Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

Heres what they were saying

Mat 15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Now here, notice theres promise attached to that particular commandment?

Ephes 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with **promise**)

When you look it up, there is a promise

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that ***thy days may be long*** upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

John is speaking of sin (and there is sin not unto death) so what is sin?

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Then here...

1Jon 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Ever look up "parents" scripture? Thats a biggy everywhere.

For instance what the Pharisees would change in respect to honouring ones father and mother (the first commandment with a promise attached to it as it pertains to living long upon the land or die the death) ever notice that? Then adressed again in 1Titus 5:8

1Titus 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

I never saw that before save only only recently as it pertains to one father or mother, or parents, but when I look they appear to confirm, in the OT, in Jesus words, the apostles acknowledging providing for ones own (wherein the pharisees made the word of God none effect) ever notice that?

Again...

Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die **the death**.

And here...

Ephes 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with ***promise***)

Then here...

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that ***thy days may be long**** upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.


All three appear to confirm each other, am I seeing things?

 

[Fireinfolding]

, I thought of the mind to sis! the carnal mind in particular

being an enemy against the Spirit ...Hbr 10:16This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.
Thanks C

You can put these things together in so many ways, they are so confirming in many various ways

John 12:50 I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Psalm 139:33 **Search me**, O God, and know my heart: **try me**, and know my thoughts:

Gen 3:4-5 And the serpent said unto **the woman**, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


Duet 13:3-4 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God **proveth you**, **to know** whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and **obey his voice**, and ye shall serve him, and cleave **unto him**.

2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so **your minds** should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman **saw** that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one **wise**,

Ephes 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;

Gen 3:6... she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they**knew** that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Romans 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Job 31:33 If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom...

Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things **are naked** and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Isaiah 47 Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame **shall be seen**: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.

Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Psalm 139:33 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

Jerm 2:19 Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: **know** therefore and **see** that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.

The FEAR of the Lord is the BEGINNING of wisdom (Good)

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.


You can truly keep going, his words so rock

 

[Chickapee]

wow Yes the parents
so the earthly parents
so is it in the heavenly begetting us ?
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon parents

Paul states this verse below but , Jesus Christ was the only begotten Son of the Father


1Cr 4:15For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

here is a couple for the fathers

Eph 6:4And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Col 3:21Fathers, provoke not your children [to anger], lest they be discouraged.

wow this verse says alot about maturity in Christ

3 stages of spiritual growth 1Jo 2:13I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.


Its all so very amazing when looking deeper than just the surface of the written Word .... Wow! praise God !! ")

 

[Fireinfolding]

The contex Jesus uses is in helping ones parents with a gift and not providing for one household is also in the context of the same, it doesnt appear to be spiritualized there though because Jesus contrasts that against saying "its a gift devoted to God" in a sense and so they dont allow one to provide help for their mother and father to honour them, well at least it appears very much that way for me. In Ephes (was it) it was speaking of not providing for ones own (you know... like if one has a widow let their children do for them to practice piety at home). Then when you look at all three tied together, which some say, "its the commandment it dont matter" (as they do) the apostle says its the first commandment with promise then when you read how Jesus puts it and the OT it is indeed. And its denying the faith, and one is regarded as an infidel if they dont provide for their own in that way, its something I never really saw before (to be quite honest) but appears very much to confirm the same things.

 

[Wheeler]

I have always wondered what the sickness unto death is that we are told not to pray for that ?

Jhn 11:4When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

is that because the Lord would not be glorified than ?

or the sin unto death is righteous judgment of God and we would be praying against Gods command ?



1Jo 5:16If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Thanks C ..

Chickapee.....as a long answer to your question.......


The many in the church that have gone to “sleep” have their sins forgiven because they have done things in ignorance of the Truth. They have lived in envy and strife in the ignorance of not having God’s knowledge. The Lord’s sacrifice covers the sins of all those who have gone to “sleep” in the last 2000 years. They are “dead” but this “death” will be completely reversible in the revelation of the Truth. They have been only “asleep” and need to be “awakened” by His knowledge. There is a time coming when the Scriptures are to be opened up for understanding so that those many who are “asleep” in the church may have knowledge of their sins and may repent and be saved. Lazarus is a veiled reference of the resurrection of all of His people…the awakening to the revealed Truth. The “sickness” of envy, strife and hatred is not unto “death”…..that is , being COMPLETELY CUT OFF from the Lord. Many are “dead in Christ”…they are “sleep” in him only….their sins being forgiven. They have not been completely cut off. It is for the glory of God to be displayed when we truly understand what has happened to the church and what will happen.

(John 11:4 KJV) When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Are there not 12 hours in a day…..are there not 12 tribes of Israel in the Day of salvation? Our Lord comes to reveal His knowledge to all of His people (Jews and Gentiles= 12 tribes) so that we may “wake” up out of the current sleep that most are in. When we have the Light of His knowledge, then we can walk in true righteousness….loving one another. We will see (understand) the Light of this world….Christ Jesus….His knowledge.

(John 11:9 KJV) Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

If a man walk in the “night,” he stumbles because there is no light in him. Those that are “asleep” are asleep in the “night” of adversity….living in strife, envy and hatred of one another. They need to be awakened out of their condition and are to put on the new man….in Christ Jesus.

10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

If we literalize this, we do not understand it.

12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.

Jesus equates this “death” to just “sleeping”….because it is totally reversible by the revealing of His knowledge.

13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

And again…in the case of the 12 year old girl ( who is a veiled reference to all of the 12 tribes of Israel ….the Jews and the Gentiles together,) we see that she is only “sleeping”….although she was literally dead. While the church is “dead,” there is much “tumult”….weeping and wailing because of the envy, strife and hatred within the churches.

(Mark 5:38 KJV) And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly.

The church is “dead in Christ” and not totally cut off from the Lord. The church is only “asleep” but will be raised in newness of life.

39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
40 And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying.

Our Lord will save us with His right hand…we shall awaken….all of us together…those who are asleep.

41 And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.

12 years old = ALL of Israel shall be saved….and we shall walk in His righteousness…in the Light of the Day of salvation.

42 And straightway the damsel arose, and walked; for she was of the age of twelve years. And they were astonished with a great astonishment.

We shall be given to eat of the tree of life….to eat of His supper…to know His ways and thoughts…to understand the Scripture of Truth.

43 And he charged them straitly that no man should know it; and commanded that something should be given her to eat.

Our Lord comes to reveal His knowledge to us…I can’t stress this enough.. It is important. When we hear and receive His knowledge in this last day, we are expected to HEAR AND OBEY His voice. He will show us all how we have missed the mark…He gives us knowledge of our sins. His sacrifice has covered the sins of the church for the last 2000 years that was done in IGNORANCE of this knowledge…as Jesus showed us on the cross.

(Luke 23:34 KJV) Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.


His sacrifice (Jesus) covers us for our sins of ignorance as typified in Numbers:

(Num 15:24 KJV) Then it shall be, if ought be committed by ignorance without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one young bullock for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour unto the LORD, with his meat offering, and his drink offering, according to the manner, and one kid of the goats for a sin offering.

Our Lord Jesus Christ is that priest who makes the atonement for all of us…..we are forgiven for our sins that have been in IGNORANCE of the KNOWLEDGE of God. There is a sacrifice for sins committed in ignorance…….JESUS. He is the sacrifice and High Priest for all of the church’s strife, envy and hatred of one another.

25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:
26 And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.
27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

But…but….but….here is the danger! When the Lord comes with His knowledge, we are to repent and turn back to Him when we understand…when we receive the Truth. We are to awake and sin NO MORE and be saved from His wrath that comes upon those who will NOT cease from their sins. There will be those who will turn their ears from the revealed Truth and will continue to sin WILLFULLY after the receiving of it. The church for the last 2000 years has not had the FULL Truth, but it will be revealed in the appointed season. There is NO sacrifice for sins that are done “presumptuously.” This is the sin that is unto “death”….being cut off completely.

30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


Despising the Word of God.....



31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

For if we sin WILLFULLY…..presumptuously…..AFTER we have received the knowledge of the Truth, there remains NO MORE sacrifice for sins. We are coming to the point where His knowledge is starting to be revealed….and we are to heed His voice that speaks the instruction we are to follow.

(Heb 10:26 KJV) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

We are not to pray for those who will willfully disregard the voice of the Lord when He reveals His knowledge. Their sin of blasphemy against the Spirit of Truth is unto death….being cut off for his own iniquity. His own iniquity will be upon his own head….no more sacrifice for sins.

(1 John 5:16 KJV) If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

We are to hear what the Spirit says in this last day….we are to hear the voice of the Lord and repent of our sins….return to Him and not continue in our church ways and thoughts which are in grievous error. Jeremiah was also instructed not to pray for those who would NOT HEAR.

(Jer 7:16 KJV) Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

Why was Jeremiah instructed not to pray for them? Because they would NOT HEAR the voice of the Lord. There was no remedy for them…they had rejected their own mercy. Today…if we hear His voice, we are not to harden our hearts…we are not to turn our ears from hearing His revealed Truth. This appointed time is fast arriving.

(Jer 7:13 KJV) And now, because ye have done all these works, saith the LORD, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not;

We have the SAME INSTRUCTION for the churches today……

(Jer 7:1 KJV) The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2 Stand in the gate of the Lord's house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the LORD.

We are to amend our ways and doings….

3 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place.

We are not to trust in our doctrines and commandments of men….they are “lying words.”

4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these.

We are to love one another…..we are to execute judgment between a man and his neighbor.

5 For if ye thoroughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye thoroughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;

We are not to oppress those poor in spirit. ….we are to love one another.

6 If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:
7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.

Jesus also did not pray for the world ….the unbelieving and unhearing religious world of 2000 years ago. But he did pray for those that are His….those that received His words …they received the love of the Truth and were saved. They believed in His words. WILL THE MANY IN THE CHURCH RECEIVE HIS WORDS TODAY AND BE SAVED? We are about to experience a repeat of the past.

(John 17:8 KJV) For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

We are to hear what the Spirit is saying in this last day….and not contradict and oppose….not blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

(Mat 12:31 KJV) Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

The Spirit of Truth comes to guide us into ALL Truth. We are to hear what the Spirit says.

(John 16:13 KJV) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.