Random thoughts to consider....

Wheeler · Jul 30, 2010

(Mat 15:4 KJV) For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

We are to honor the Father in heaven and our mother.His wisdom from above. In His wisdom is true freedom.freedom from mans traditionscommandments and doctrines that lead us away from showing love one to another. Our traditions keep us from the royal law of God by keeping them..it keeps us from loving one another. Religious man would like to keep us in bondage in the darkness. New Jerusalem = the wisdom of God = the mother of us all = we are to be born again of. We are to honor our Father in heaven and His wisdom (the mother)..as well as our earthly father and mother.

(Gal 4:26 KJV) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Whoever will not hear the Fathers wisdom.turning his ear from the Truth will die the death.be utterly cut off from Him and His people. We are to hear the instruction of our Father in heaven.and forsake not the LAW of His wisdom..our mother. We are to be born from above in the Spirit. The word law is torah which means INSTRUCTION. We are to hear the INSTRUCTION of the Lord in this last day. He will guide us out of the darkness of hatred into His marvelous Light. He will release us from the prison of mans traditions and commandments.

(Prov 1:8 KJV) My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:

The INSTRUCTION (law) is Light..we are to honor our Father in heaven.the Father of Lights. We are to heed His voice.obeyand be saved from our envy, strife and hatred. We shall pass from death into lifefor His instruction is the Way of Life for those who will heed it.

(Prov 6:23 KJV) For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Whoever shall despise the Word of the Lord (curse).His instruction..his lamp shall be put out in obscure darkness.

(Prov 20:20 KJV) Whoso curseth his father or his mother, his lamp shall be put out in obscure darkness.

He shall die the death.be given over to a rejected mind to be filled with all unrighteousness because he will not have honored the instruction of the Father and mother from above. They will not have retained His knowledgeHis INSTRUCTION into the Way of Life from their current darkness.

(Rom 1:28 KJV) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Disobedient to PARENTS..the Father and mother of above.

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Fireinfolding · Jul 30, 2010

Wheeler, it looks as though the Pharisees were sorta spiritualizing it in the context Jesus Christ adresses honour your father and mother though.

I used to spiritualize it but I cant there, as the first and greatest commandment itself is to love the Lord thy God (specifically) whereas the second wraps up loving others (inclusive of honouring ones father and mother) likewise

Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

And the first commandment with promise to it which the pharisees did not allow for them to

Mark 7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; [he shall be free].

Mark 7:12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

Mat 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

1Titus 5:4 But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God.

1Titus 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

How could I spiritualize that away? Whats incorrectly built there?

Isnt being obedient TO GOD (loving God) inclusive of obeying His commandments toward our parents and neighbors?

Chickapee · Jul 30, 2010

gonna try to say something here , hope its clear as can be Mal 1:6A son honoureth [his] father, and a servant his master: if then I [be] a father, where [is] mine honour? and if I [be] a master, where [is] my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Jhn 8:49Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

honor Strong's G5091 - timaō
1) to estimate, fix the value
a) for the value of something belonging to one's self
2) to honour, to have in honour, to revere, venerate Mat 15:6And honour5091 not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

[Ye] hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me.

But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

I believe there is the concern for judging what is right in this one Fire and Wheeler They are priests and teachers to others how to be / examples and Jesus showed them by His examples their error in many things the scribes are readers / hearers of the Word Pharisees are the ones who separate themselves from other only to condemn them by the Letter of the law that kills , its the undone works or dead works we are to leave behind and go on into completing the New way Jesus made effective by His Life and example , to do what is right , holy , just and true

to me there is the inside of the cup and the outside , they appear on the outside to be doing what is right
but inside is deadness by tradition of the fathers , Jesus honored His Father by doing them good works in His Name , keeping His name clean / pure HOLY .... Jhn 10:25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

Mat 23:23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
I do agree there is the first works that must be done over and done right and the first Love is for God from the heart not the lip service

In John 10 this commanment the Father gave Jesus to fulfill and He does it by laying down his life for the sheep

we see that those who Jesus showed error in their tradions was a false sense

sacrifice /corban / gift offering ...

Jesus gave of himself all /love that was loving God with all/love that God/ Father had given to the Son , the Son gave back all to the Father , glorifying His Holy name in the earth / lost sheep ..

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

the unpardonable sin is the blaspheme the Holy Spirit / breath of God

these came close by speaking evil of '' good works'' by the things they did not understand ...

Chickapee · Jul 30, 2010

Wheeler said:
Chickapee.....as a long answer to your question.......

The many in the church that have gone to sleep have their sins forgiven because they have done things in ignorance of the Truth. They have lived in envy and strife in the ignorance of not having Gods knowledge. The Lords sacrifice covers the sins of all those who have gone to sleep in the last 2000 years. They are dead but this death will be completely reversible in the revelation of the Truth. They have been only asleep and need to be awakened by His knowledge. There is a time coming when the Scriptures are to be opened up for understanding so that those many who are asleep in the church may have knowledge of their sins and may repent and be saved. Lazarus is a veiled reference of the resurrection of all of His peoplethe awakening to the revealed Truth. The sickness of envy, strife and hatred is not unto death..that is , being COMPLETELY CUT OFF from the Lord. Many are dead in Christthey are sleep in him only.their sins being forgiven. They have not been completely cut off. It is for the glory of God to be displayed when we truly understand what has happened to the church and what will happen.

(John 11:4 KJV) When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Are there not 12 hours in a day..are there not 12 tribes of Israel in the Day of salvation? Our Lord comes to reveal His knowledge to all of His people (Jews and Gentiles= 12 tribes) so that we may wake up out of the current sleep that most are in. When we have the Light of His knowledge, then we can walk in true righteousness.loving one another. We will see (understand) the Light of this world.Christ Jesus.His knowledge.

(John 11:9 KJV) Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

If a man walk in the night, he stumbles because there is no light in him. Those that are asleep are asleep in the night of adversity.living in strife, envy and hatred of one another. They need to be awakened out of their condition and are to put on the new man.in Christ Jesus.

10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

If we literalize this, we do not understand it.

12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.

Jesus equates this death to just sleeping.because it is totally reversible by the revealing of His knowledge.

13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

And againin the case of the 12 year old girl ( who is a veiled reference to all of the 12 tribes of Israel .the Jews and the Gentiles together,) we see that she is only sleeping.although she was literally dead. While the church is dead, there is much tumult.weeping and wailing because of the envy, strife and hatred within the churches.

(Mark 5:38 KJV) And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly.

The church is dead in Christ and not totally cut off from the Lord. The church is only asleep but will be raised in newness of life.

39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
40 And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying.

Our Lord will save us with His right handwe shall awaken.all of us togetherthose who are asleep.

41 And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.

12 years old = ALL of Israel shall be saved.and we shall walk in His righteousnessin the Light of the Day of salvation.

Our Lord Jesus Christ is that priest who makes the atonement for all of us..we are forgiven for our sins that have been in IGNORANCE of the KNOWLEDGE of God. There is a sacrifice for sins committed in ignorance.JESUS. He is the sacrifice and High Priest for all of the churchs strife, envy and hatred of one another.

25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:
26 And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.
27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

Butbut.but.here is the danger! When the Lord comes with His knowledge, we are to repent and turn back to Him when we understandwhen we receive the Truth. We are to awake and sin NO MORE and be saved from His wrath that comes upon those who will NOT cease from their sins. There will be those who will turn their ears from the revealed Truth and will continue to sin WILLFULLY after the receiving of it. The church for the last 2000 years has not had the FULL Truth, but it will be revealed in the appointed season. There is NO sacrifice for sins that are done presumptuously. This is the sin that is unto death.being cut off completely.

30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Despising the Word of God.....

31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

For if we sin WILLFULLY..presumptuously..AFTER we have received the knowledge of the Truth, there remains NO MORE sacrifice for sins. We are coming to the point where His knowledge is starting to be revealed.and we are to heed His voice that speaks the instruction we are to follow.

(Heb 10:26 KJV) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

We are not to pray for those who will willfully disregard the voice of the Lord when He reveals His knowledge. Their sin of blasphemy against the Spirit of Truth is unto death.being cut off for his own iniquity. His own iniquity will be upon his own head.no more sacrifice for sins.

(1 John 5:16 KJV) If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

We are to hear what the Spirit says in this last day.we are to hear the voice of the Lord and repent of our sins.return to Him and not continue in our church ways and thoughts which are in grievous error. Jeremiah was also instructed not to pray for those who would NOT HEAR.

(Jer 7:16 KJV) Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

Why was Jeremiah instructed not to pray for them? Because they would NOT HEAR the voice of the Lord. There was no remedy for themthey had rejected their own mercy. Todayif we hear His voice, we are not to harden our heartswe are not to turn our ears from hearing His revealed Truth. This appointed time is fast arriving.

(Jer 7:13 KJV) And now, because ye have done all these works, saith the LORD, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not;

We have the SAME INSTRUCTION for the churches today

(Jer 7:1 KJV) The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2 Stand in the gate of the Lord's house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the LORD.

We are to amend our ways and doings.

3 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place.

We are not to trust in our doctrines and commandments of men.they are lying words.

4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these.

We are to love one another..we are to execute judgment between a man and his neighbor.

5 For if ye thoroughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye thoroughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;

We are not to oppress those poor in spirit. .we are to love one another.

6 If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:
7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.

Jesus also did not pray for the world .the unbelieving and unhearing religious world of 2000 years ago. But he did pray for those that are His.those that received His words they received the love of the Truth and were saved. They believed in His words. WILL THE MANY IN THE CHURCH RECEIVE HIS WORDS TODAY AND BE SAVED? We are about to experience a repeat of the past.

(John 17:8 KJV) For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

We are to hear what the Spirit is saying in this last day.and not contradict and oppose.not blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

(Mat 12:31 KJV) Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

The Spirit of Truth comes to guide us into ALL Truth. We are to hear what the Spirit says.

(John 16:13 KJV) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

Amen Wheeler !!! it is about having the mind of Christ / obedience to the WILL / desire of God / Father and doing them in honor and Glory to His name in the earth , those poor in spirit

it shall be given as they believe , measure of faith all from the Fathers Hand / Isa 66:2For all those [things] hath mine hand made, and all those [things] have been, saith the LORD: but to this [man] will I look, [even] to [him that is] poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Mat 5:3Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 4:18The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

the sleep of death / carnal minded and the Lord Jesus is our resurrection / Life ... Jhn 11:25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

oh my , so Thankful for His coming !!!!

Fireinfolding · Jul 30, 2010

Yeah I dont want to make void any other of the scriptures posted because they are the true words of God, I agree with them too.

Them just saying, its corban meant (contrarywise to the suffer of others to do ought for ones mother and father) is this...

1) a gift offered (or to be offered) to God
2) the sacred treasury

Simply because the first commandment adresses our love for God FIRST and foremost and yet our love for Him is expressed through us in obedience to His commandments, in loving our neighbor, honouring our mother and father and doing those things which are pleasing in his sight (that which is acceptable to Him). One of those is caring for (or rather providing for) our parents (even our own household). And an example of this is found in one having a widowed parent (who have children or even nephews) and them first shewing piety at home, if that was spritualized to mean corban (a gift offered to God) and ignored (in our actions to do so) it says we have denied the faith itself and are even worse then an infidel.

They were saying it was corban, a gift to be offered to God and suffered them not to do ought for ones father and mother making the word of God to none effect. When the first commandment itself pertains to loving God first and the expression of our love through our obedience to Him pertains how we love and treat others (our parents, our own household, as well as our neighbors).

Thats all, not disregarding the other scriptures but in the context of corban and the commandment it makes sense. I do not in anyway want to be an infidel and make that same mistake is all.

Chickapee · Jul 30, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
Yeah I dont want to make void any other of the scriptures posted because they are the true words of God, I agree with them too.

Them just saying, its corban meant (contrarywise to the suffer of others to do ought for ones mother and father) is this...

1) a gift offered (or to be offered) to God
2) the sacred treasury

Simply because the first commandment adresses our love for God FIRST and foremost and yet our love for Him is expressed through us in obedience to His commandments, in loving our neighbor, honouring our mother and father and doing those things which are pleasing in his sight (that which is acceptable to Him). One of those is caring for (or rather providing for) our parents (even our own household). And an example of this is found in one having a widowed parent (who have children or even nephews) and them first shewing piety at home, if that was spritualized to mean corban (a gift offered to God) and ignored (in our actions to do so) it says we have denied the faith itself and are even worse then an infidel.

They were saying it was corban, a gift to be offered to God and suffered them not to do ought for ones father and mother making the word of God to none effect. When the first commandment itself pertains to loving God first and the expression of our love through our obedience to Him pertains how we love and treat others (our parents, our own household, as well as our neighbors).

Thats all, not disregarding the other scriptures but in the context of corban and the commandment it makes sense. I do not in anyway want to be an infidel and make that same mistake is all.

AGREED , we must Love God with our All , Nor do I either Sis want to disreguard any scriptures given , you know that ...

seems that those whom kept the law of Gods command were doing it still carnally minded and thats all well and good it is the first comandment with promise , like make the tree good and its fruit good , Jesus told them to do till he comes
but to me When Jesus Comes He gives us the right mind / heart to KEEP the Laws of Gods command changes / new birth , but them who opposed him were in His midst and they did not SEE the Truth before their eyes/ understanding the Light / Jesus Words and Spirit

what makes me think of the counted seed of promise/ Christ in them . is this , they called themselves seed of Abraham their father and yet Jesus told them they did not do the righteous works of Abraham as their Father Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Paul details this in Gal 3
Galatians 3 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

and reading Gal 6 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

Eph 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise

where as the God of Abraham Isacc and Jacob are Alive Gen 17:5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

these works are alive and remain though Faith in Jesus Christ and Gods promise the righteouness of God

those that are not are dead to God still in trespass and sin

Jesus Come to raise the dead to Life see how Jesus admonishes them

Jhn 8:39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
John 8 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version) this chapter explains the children who claimed promise , but Jesus called them the devils children /seed
I know what a clear statment you are making Sis
and agree something as simple as sacraficing for family and neighbours should be plain as Day to eveyone who believes in Jesus Christ and a given ..

I just see the Lord making us complete in Him all the way , but first their is a leap of faith to start the whole process

Just as Peter believed Jesus Christ is the Son of God , that faith come by / from the Father in heavens Promise to us , He changes us as we trust Him to do it .

Fireinfolding · Jul 30, 2010

Agreed sis

Abraham received the sign of circumcision in his uncircumcision

Duet 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

He is the God of the living, the God of Abraham

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Those who belong to Christ are His seed

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

So uncircumcision after the flesh or circumcision after the flesh is nothing, but the circumcision of Christ of the heart

Shown this way...

Gal 5:11 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Shown again this way...

1Cr 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

And shown both ways...

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Whereas here they said...

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Zacchaeus was a son of Abraham

Luke 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

Luke 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

Pretty neat how they confirm in various ways.

Chickapee · Jul 30, 2010

Amen !!

love those scriptures ...
I had to read though them verses and chapters again !!

and thanks be to God for you reminding me to do so ! right down to the heart of the matter ..

2Ch 6:30Then hear thou from heaven thy dwelling place,

and forgive, and render unto every man according unto all his ways,

whose heart thou knowest; (for thou only knowest the hearts of the children of men
and that change sis !

Luk 1:17And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias,

to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,

and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just;

to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

cool about Zacchaeus too , great comparisons to turn , be converted , and repent / sort of like the prodical sons return to his fathers house ?
1) transitively
a) to turn to
1) to the worship of the true God
b) to cause to return, to bring back
1) to the love and obedience of God
2) to the love for the children
3) to love wisdom and righteousness
2) intransitively
a) to turn to one's self
b) to turn one's self about, turn back
c) to return, turn back, come back
Act 26:18To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light,

and [from] the power of Satan unto God,

that they may receive forgiveness of sins,

and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.Act 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted,

that your sins may be blotted out,

when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Act 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Zacchaeus = "pure" innocent

awesome they all connect in some way together as One WORD IN POWER..

Wheeler · Jul 30, 2010

Hi Fireinfolding,

I do see what you are saying.

I am a bit puzzled though.I wasnt speaking in my post specifically about the interaction between Jesus and the Pharisees over the honor thy father and mother command. I, however, was spiritualizing about honoring our Father and mother in heaven and that we should listen to Him.our Father in heaven.and not give heed to our own doctrines. Does this make me a Pharisee by spiritualizing it?

Indeed, honoring our earthly mother and father is showing honor to our heavenly Father. Indeed, showing love to one another is showing love to God. Definitely!

Now, I am looking at the interaction of the Pharisees with Jesus.

What was the first and foremost issue here?

(Mark 7:5 KJV) Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

The overall issue was about not honoring God with their hearts. We need to honor our heavenly Father. The Pharisees with their doctrines of men only honored Him with their lips.but their hearts were far from Him.

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

In vain were they worshiping the Lord with teaching and commandments of men that actually rejected the commandments of God. The churches have repeated the past mistakes.nothing new under the sun.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

We are to honor our earthly father and mother most definitely. The law teaches the earthly so we can grasp the spiritual. We are to honor our earthly father and so honor our heavenly Father. By doing this, we show we love Godyes. Indeed, the first commandment is to love God with all of hearts, minds, and souls and strength.and the rest of the law is showing we love Him by loving others.our mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, etc.

10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

Fireinfolding, the Pharisees were not spiritualizing the command to honor the father and mother. They were coming up with a LOOPHOLE around Gods law.they were circumventing it with their own tradition. They were absolving people from honoring their father and mother by teaching they should give their offering to the templeinstead of taking care of their father and mother with the money like they should. They were invalidating Gods command (the instruction.the mother.the wisdom of God) for their own traditions. The Pharisees loved money, things and power over the people.

11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Thanks Chickapee for this verse. Indeed.we are to follow after judgment, mercy and faith..they are the weightier matters of the law. The Pharisees were circumventing Gods law to honor the father and mother....not looking after the truth of the law....the weightier matters.

(Mat 23:23 KJV) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

We are to honor our father and mother.of courseno question about it. We are to honor our heavenly Father and mother also. Our heavenly Father gives us His instruction and wisdom (the mother of us all.) We are His children if we are born after wisdom from above.

(Exo 20:12 KJV) Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

The Pharisees were preventing others from literally honoring their earthly father and mother with their tradition . They were in essence doing what Satan did at the beginning with the woman in the garden. They were circumventing His law with a lie. Those who would curse they father or mother would die the death. But, with the Pharisees tradition, they were saying you shall not die. You are free to not honor your mother and father with the Corban offering.it gets you off the hook of obeying Gods command from the heart.

10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

Those Pharisees were being the children of the wicked one..they circumvented Gods law with their lie. They were essentially saying you shall not surely die by preventing others from following the command of God to honor our father and mother. Those who curse their father or mother would die the death per His law. By not literally honoring their father and motherthey were not honoring God in their hearts.

(Gen 3:1 KJV) Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Who is my mother? Who are my brothers? Who are my sisters?

(Mat 12:46 KJV) While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

I have been getting a little discouraged on the forum lately.a little bit wearyand so I feel it is time for me to go for now.

Just wanted to say thank you Chickapee and Fireinfolding for investing the time to read my random thoughts..thank you for consideringGod bless you both my sisters!!

Wheeler

Fireinfolding · Jul 30, 2010

Fireinfolding, the Pharisees were not spiritualizing the command to honor the father and mother. They were coming up with a LOOPHOLE around Gods law.they were circumventing it with their own tradition. They were absolving people from honoring their father and mother by teaching they should give their offering to the templeinstead of taking care of their father and mother with the money like they should. They were invalidating Gods command (the instruction.the mother.the wisdom of God) for their own traditions. The Pharisees loved money, things and power over the people.

Yes Wheeler I agree with this, I dont disagree with your posts at all, meaning the scriptures you posted, they are His words and are true. It was just the part about honouring ones mother and father and how that is shown. You called what they were doing as creating a loophole I agree wholeheartedly, when I said they were spiritualizing it I meant spiritualizing a thing (Corban, gift to God) in the context of the commandment, which can sorta be like creating a loophole (so to speak) that would void His words in the respected sense of no longer suffer him to do for his natural mother and father) in that way (lets make it for God, and not them). In that sense.

Sorry you are feeling weary, I hope I didnt contribute to your feeling that way, I didnt mean to if I did. God bless you, I hope you have an enjoyable and peaceful break Wheeler

Chickapee · Jul 31, 2010

I have been getting a little discouraged on the forum lately….a little bit weary…and so I feel it is time for me to go for now.

Just wanted to say “thank you” Chickapee and Fireinfolding for investing the time to read my “random thoughts”…..thank you for “considering”……God bless you both my sisters!!

Wheeler

God bless you too Bro W !

I so hope it was not my ramblings , that added to your discouragement

to be honest I to am ''frustrated '' with ''everything ''' in my life right now
all I can do at this point is ''pray '' for some peace ...

God help ...
C

Chickapee · Aug 2, 2010

Keeping this in mind ,this sums up much of it here..... God bless you all ...

Ph 4

4Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.

5Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

6Be careful for nothing;

but in every thing by prayer and supplication

with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

7And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding,

shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
8Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true,

whatsoever things are honest,

whatsoever things are just,
whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely,

whatsoever things are of good report;

if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise,

think on these things.
9Those things, which ye have both learned,

and received, and heard, and seen in me, do:

and the God of peace shall be with you.
10But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly,

that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again;

wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity.
11Not that I speak in respect of want:

for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am,

therewith to be content.
12I know both how to be abased,

and I know how to abound: every where and in all things

I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry,

both to abound and to suffer need.

13I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

davidsheart77 · Aug 4, 2010

Wheeler said:
Thank you Chickapee for those verses....they are very pertinent!

Just as Moses went to make an atonement for the sin of the children of Israel, our Lord Jesus Christ makes the atonement for us.....the church ....who have gone astray. We have made "gods of gold" also.....religion that is fashioned after corruptible man...religion that is formed with man's own wisdom and desires.

(Exo 32:30 KJV) And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.
31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.

As written by Paul in Romans, we will receive the atonement. "Romans" means "strength." Instead of reading the books of the New Testament as letters written to churches 2000 years ago, we are to read them with special relevance to an "awakening" church....TODAY! The church in "strength" (Romans) will have received the atonement. That is what will make us strong in the Lord....no longer are we to be children tossed about by the doctrines of men.....which are deceptions.

(Rom 5:9 KJV) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

We will not be redeemed by those things we have previously fashioned in our earthly, religious minds....the corruptible things we have made for ourselves.....we have received doctrines and commandments of men from our church fathers whose desires were for earthly things...."vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers:"

(1 Pet 1:18 KJV) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

We will be cleansed from these things by the precious blood of Christ.....the church will be without blemish and spot...without sin...without divisions. We will be of one mind and one mouth in Christ.

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

He will "manifest" to us His knowledge so that we may see our sins and correct them....we are to be forgiven if we hear the Truth and do the Truth.

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

We are to overcome the "world." The "world" is the current "orderly arrangement" of religious men. The organizations of religion we see today are the "world" that we are to overcome. The "world" listens to its own.....they will hear what they want to hear.

(1 John 4:4 KJV) Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

(1 John 5:4 KJV) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

We are to not love the "world"....its ways and thoughts.....its lust of earthly things...its divisions....its pride of life....its ministries...its works....its grand buildings...its riches...its fame...its power. These things are motivated by man's vain glory. It is not of the Father.

(1 John 2:15 KJV) Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

The "world" will pass away and the lusts it indulged in...the works will be burned and dissolved just as the gold calf.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

The "world" will be cast down....but our Lord has chosen us in Him before the "foundation" of the world. The word "foundation" in Ephesians is "katabole" which means "to cast down, to throw down, descend." In other words, He has chosen us in Him before the world is thrown down to be holy and without blame in love. We are to come out of Babylon so as not to share in its sins and plagues....to suffer the wrath of God.

(Eph 1:4 KJV) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Because Babylon (the current orderly arrangement of men) will be thrown down as a stone:

(Rev 18:21 KJV) And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

For the things of the earthly-minded religious man will be thrown down......the "goodly stones and gifts" that adorn the "temple."

(Luke 21:5 KJV) And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

As the children of Israel rejoiced at the gold calf while Moses was away, many in the church have rejoiced and "sent gifts to one another" while Christ is in heaven. They have rejoiced over the bodies of the two prophets......the Scriptures which have suffered at the hands of sinful men.....who have corrupted the Word of God for unjust gain.

(Rev 11:10 KJV) And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

But we are to come out of Babylon (the world) at the appointed time.

(Rev 18:4 KJV) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

It is through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord that we will know grace and peace. The Greek word for "knowledge" in 2nd Peter is "epignosis." Epignosis means FULL discernment....to know of something fully. Not a partial understanding as we have all had these last 2000 years.

(2 Pet 1:1 KJV) Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

the "knowledge" = "epignosis"

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

We are to escape the corruption that is in the "world" through lust....we are to escape from the current religious world that teaches and builds itself with earthly things as its motivation.....for vain glory.

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Who is to overcome the "world"? Those in the church are to overcome....the religious themselves are the targets for this message......as it says in Revelation. The churches in "Asia" are us. "Asia" means "sunrise, resurrection, east"......we, the awakening churches in the revelation of the Truth, are to overcome. We are to overcome all those things we did and thought in His name....our own religion...our own "righteous" works. His thoughts and ways are higher than ours. Hear what the Spirit says to the churches:

(Rev 2:7 KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

(Rev 2:11 KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

(Rev 2:17 KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

(Rev 2:26 KJV) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

(Rev 3:5 KJV) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(Rev 3:12 KJV) Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

(Rev 3:21 KJV) To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

How will we receive the full, revealed knowledge of God when it comes? If we humbly accept the Truth and DO the Truth, it will come to us humbly and lowly as Jesus did when he went into Jerusalem on a donkey:

(Zec 9:9 KJV) Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

We are to lay down our "garments"......lay down our thoughts and ways for His thoughts and ways. To humbly accept the Truth.....to lose our lives to save them.

(Mat 21:8 KJV) And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strowed them in the way.

But if we continue to corrupt the Word of God for unjust gain after receiving the Truth, then the Truth comes and casts out all those who sell and buy in the temple. All those that sell "doves".....all those who say "peace, peace" when there is no peace. He will cast out all those who make merchandise of the Scriptures and us.

(Mat 21:12 KJV) And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Again....he wil cut off all the works of "war" from the church.....all the doctrines and commandments of men that pit one against another.....all those things that make merchandise of us.

(Zec 9:10 KJV) And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

i AM CONFUSED THEN, I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING ELSE BUT AS Far as the Lord, what are we supposed to do just sit there and stare at the wall? We can't have jobs, families, or participate in church though we still keep the new law of love in Christ Jesus. We can't have a house or build a house because that is vanity now. or fully dedicate our best to our job because thats vanity. I am confused and need you to reiterate. I can understand getting wealth at the expense of corruption being wrong, but the book of proverbs says if we live a right life we would leave an inheritance to our children's children not that its my goal but out of automatic gift from the Lord for our faithfulness. Or taking care of my self is vain glory. So me being single I am to stop going to school and just start walking the roads preaching the gospel is that it? I am being serious.

Chickapee · Aug 5, 2010

Hi Davids heart77,
Hopefully when Wheeler returns He will answer your questions ..

I have no idea how to answer them

I only have a few scriptures that come to mind on reading both yours and His post

we are to wait on the Lord for answers and to me thats one of the hardest things to do !
having patience in hope is what the Lord calls us out of the world to do in His name
to glorify Him and praise Him
seems to be what has got most religious folks in trouble in the first place

here are a few to ponder while we wait for Wheeler to return

Luk 8:15But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep [it], and bring forth fruit with patience.

in this verse its is about betrayal of everyone for serving the Lord as we wait on Him to show us through the Holy Spirit Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls

and these Rom 5:3And not only [so], but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Rom 5:4And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Rom 8:25But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].

Rom 15:4For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

some of the Old Testament too

Jer 14:22Are there [any] among the vanities of the Gentiles that can cause rain? or can the heavens give showers? [art] not thou he, O LORD our God? therefore we will wait upon thee: for thou hast made all these [things].

Lam 3:25The LORD [is] good unto them that wait for him, to the soul [that] seeketh him.

Lam 3:26[It is] good that [a man] should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD.

Mic 7:7Therefore I will look unto the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me.

may the Good Lord lead you and guide you though all things by His Spirit and truth ...........C

Wheeler · Aug 11, 2010

Hi davidsheart77,

Thank you for your concern.

What I was speaking about was the house of this current religious world .all of it SPIRITUALLY speaking. Our churches (houses) are built upon mans ignorant, misunderstanding of the Bible.they are built upon the spiritual sand. They are built upon the falsehoods of man which pit one group of Christians against another because of a literal practice they follow or because of envy, hatred, etc. I know Im a babbling, murmuring child when it comes to commenting on the Scriptures.but I have never suggested that people drop their lives.their jobs, their education, their families. I have never suggested dishonoring our parents or stop building our literal house to live in or building our own businesses or leaving an inheritance for our children. Any one who lives after the Spirit knows that we must take care of our families.that is just basic understanding. This is not about coming out of the literal world.but out of the spiritual world that are currently in. What are we really to deny here?

(Mat 16:24 KJV) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

It is always in a religious, spiritual perspective that we are to deny ourselves. It is the lusts of men that we are to flee from. Religious men seek, in covetousness, to build a name for themselves in this worldthey seek to build that big church upon the hill and to bring in as many as they canthey seek to make merchandise of the people of God..they seek to bring us into captivity to doctrines and commandments of men. All of these things are done in the vain glory of men.

(1 Pet 4:2 KJV) That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Peter writes to an awakening church..awakening to the Truth of our situation that will pass away. In the time past of our life..AS A CHURCH, we have walked in SPIRITUAL lusts. As a church, we have all lived after the lusts of our pastors and our church leaders. Excess of wine = covetousness. These lusts are not to be read literally but spiritually. We are no longer to live after our church leaders covetousnesshis selfish ambitions for a bigger church.a bigger congregation.a bigger church bank account.all self-serving things. Who can deny that many pastors today are in it for their own vain glory?

3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

The TRUTH shall set us free..free from the lusts of religious men.from their influences.from their teachings.from their commandments.

(John 8:31 KJV) Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

We are to no longer be servants to our pastors who preach in error. They keep us in their prison houses by deceit.they keep us as merchandise. But the Truth comes to set us freeso that we may no longer abide in their religious, spiritual houses any longer. No longer will we be in bondage to manto his doctrines and commandments.

35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

What religious man has built in the last 2000 years or so has been in the VAIN glory of men. The many different denominations and different ways of interpreting the Bible are evidence of that. Our Lord comes to reveal His Truth to us in this last day so that we may be built into a church of one mind, one spirit, one body.

(Psa 127:1 KJV) A Song of degrees for Solomon. Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

We are not to cast away our personal lives.our families, our jobs, our education, our literal homes, etc. We are to deny our own religious, preconceived-by-men wisdom and understanding though which is in error to the Truth. The high thingsthe imaginations of menthat are in opposition to the Truth are to be cast down. We are to be set free from mans bondagehis own wisdomhis own thoughtsand to be brought into captivity to the obedience of Christ in the knowledge of God.

(2 Cor 10:4 KJV) (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Religious men have only looked upon the outward appearance of the knowledge of the Bible. But it is high time for men to start looking into the spiritual meanings of the Scriptures.he must now look beyond the literal, plain meanings in the knowledge of God. The Scriptures are alive with meaning for us today. Religious man must stop looking at them as history lessons.man keeps the stories of the Scriptures in their historical contextman has been looking upon them in the tomb perspective. The Scriptures are anointed with the living Spirit of God.they are alive and have direct meaning for us in this last day.

7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

We are to participate with God in spreading the revealed Truth to this dark world. Building big, grand church buildings upon the hill does not change this world.only God can bring the Light of His knowledge so that real, meaningful changes can be made. We participate in the spiritual, re-creation of this world.in the regeneration. This earth has become without form and void.religious man has become foolish in the darkness of his own understanding. Religious man thinks gain is godlinesshe thinks that his great, wonderful religious works are going to save him. No knowledge = earth without form and void and heavens no light.

(Jer 4:22 KJV) For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

But our God comes to give us His knowledge so that we may know our right hand from our left. He comes to give us His knowledge so that we may escape from the lusts of ungodly men in our churches. The Light = the Light of Gods knowledge in Christ Jesus. Christ Jesus = the Truth.

(Gen 1:3 KJV) And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

We are to be fruitful and multiply with His knowledge.with the revealed Word of God. We are to replenish the earth and subdue it with His knowledge. We are to be fishers of men in the knowledge of the Truth of God.not in religious mans knowledge.

(Gen 1:28 KJV) And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

We are not to be barren and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.the LIGHT of Gods revealed knowledge.

(2 Pet 1:8 KJV) For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are to participate in filling this earth with the revealed knowledge of the glory of the Lordfor it will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea bed.

(Hab 2:14 KJV) For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

It is about the Lords will being done in this earth as it is in heaven. The earth must be filled with His knowledge. His kingdom is coming so that His will is to be done in this earth.

(Mat 6:10 KJV) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

The rain is coming.the revealed Word of Truth and it will bring forth fruits of righteousness in men. Men will be fruitful and multiply with His knowledgeHis Word will not return to Him void but will accomplish that which He has appointedthat pleases Him.

(Isa 55:9 KJV) For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Mans living in the darkness of his own mind has been for a purposeso that he may see His Light when it finally shines. It is for His glory alone. He has formed the Light and created the darkness.

(Isa 45:7 KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The Scripture of Truth will open up for our understanding.the skies will pour down righteousness and those who will receive the love of the Truth shall be saved. Salvation and righteousness shall spring up together in this NEW, SPIRITUAL RE-CREATION of the heaven and earth. It is the REGENERATION of man.the salvation from the current darkness of the mind and his works of darkness. The Lord's revealed Word = the "rain"...

8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

The Lord will raise us up in His righteousnessnot our own. He will direct our ways in Christ Jesus.

(Isa 45:12 KJV) I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
The captives shall be let gothose who are in bondage to other mens doctrines and commandments. Many of our pastors today preach for price and reward.but those who will preach the anointed Truth will have no regard for such things. We shall have dominion over the fish of the seawe shall be fishers of men in His revealed knowledge of the Truth.

13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

We shall have dominion over the creeping things that creep upon the earth. We shall have power over the enemy.over the scorpions and serpentsthose men who preach in the earthly understanding of the Bible for the earthly thingsfor wonderful works done in His name. The labor of Egypt = the labor for religious, earthly things. The men of stature are our current pastors and leaders in the church who perpetuate the labor of the church body to continue to work after earthly thingsbuilding great ministries, etc.

14 Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.

We are to be made in the image of God.in the express imageChrist Jesus.

(Gen 1:26 KJV) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Christ Jesus is the express image of God:

(Heb 1:2 KJV) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

We are to get rid of the old man of religion and put on the new man Christ Jesus so that we may participate in the re-creation of this dark worldso that the earth may be filled with His knowledgeso that His will may be done in earth as it is in heavenso that God may be all in all.

(Eph 4:22 KJV) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
It is the regenerationthe re-creationthe renewing of the Spirit of our minds. The Light shall shine in the darkness of our minds by the opening up of the Scriptures.

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

continued in next post.....

Wheeler · Aug 11, 2010

...continued from previous post....in reply to davidsheart77...

In the Light of Christ Jesus, we are to replenish the earthfill it with His knowledge. We are to subdue it in the knowledge of Christ Jesus.so that God may be all in all.

(1 Cor 15:28 KJV) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The Lord formed the earth and made it.He created it not in vain. But man has become vain and empty in his own knowledge and wisdom of the Scriptures. Mans sins have hidden the Truth from his dark mind. The earth has BECOME void and without form.

(Isa 45:18 KJV) For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

But our God comes to save us from our sinsfrom our prisons of darkness. He comes with the Light of His knowledge so that we may know Him.and His righteousness.

(Isa 43:8 KJV) Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.

Let the seas be gathered togetherlet the nations be gathered together to hear His Truth.

9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and show us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Let His people gather together in His Truthand let the hearts of man bring forth fruits of His righteousness..and His salvation.His peace.

(Gen 1:10 KJV) And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

And God said = the rain = His Word =His revealed Scripture of Truth.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Gods revealed spoken Word is the rain. Many have said it did not rain until Noah.that is complete nonsense. When God speaks, it is rain that brings forth His righteousness, salvation and His peace in the heart of man.

(Isa 55:10 KJV) For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.

When God speaks, we are not to turn back again to follyour own religious thoughts and ways and works of darkness. His revealed Word is the rain.

(Psa 85:8 KJV) I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.
9 Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.
10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

With His rainHis revealed Word, Truth shall spring out of the earth.out of the Scriptures and the heart of man. We shall be fruitful in His Word of Truth.

11 Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
12 Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; and our land shall yield her increase.
13 Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set us in the way of his steps.

THIS IS MUCH BETTER THAN STARING AT THE WALLS!

Chickapee · Aug 11, 2010

Amen, good posts Wheeler !
I have been struggling to put to ''good use'' what we are learning in these very things ! Thanks , and much blessings from on High C ..

Wheeler · Aug 12, 2010

Many pastors and church leaders today handle the Word of God deceitfully. They use the Bible to reinforce their own doctrines and commandments. They preach out of covetousness for bigger church buildings, for bigger congregations, for bigger ministriesfor their own greater glory. and they use the literal, earthly understanding of the Scriptures as a net to catch men with. They are fishers of men but only for dishonesty.preaching for richesreward. Their nets are their erroneous Bible teachings they use to capture men with. But they will be given an opportunity to renounce the hidden things of dishonesty.to quit handling the Word of God with deceitfulness.

(2 Cor 4:2 KJV) But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

Let him that stole steal no more.let him who preaches out of the covetousness in his heart renounce the hidden things of dishonesty. Let him preach the revealed Truth instead.to those who are in need of it.

(Eph 4:28 KJV) Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Let the pastor live as a minister of the Truth instead of a prince that exercises authority over the church.

(Mat 20:25 KJV) But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Those that serve themselves must deny themselves and follow the Lord in the Truth.

(Mark 8:34 KJV) And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

What profit is there in gaining bigger church buildings.in getting bigger ministries.in writing books.in achieving greater self glory for ones self?

35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Let him deny himself and follow the Lord in the revealed Truth as the disciples showed us by example. Peter and Andrew were fishers also and forsook their nets to follow him. So also, spiritually speaking, those who preach erroneously with their nets that deceptively catch men must forsake their own teachings in order to follow Him in this last day. The disciples left their nets immediately when they heard the Lords counsel.

(Mat 4:18 KJV) And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
20 And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.

Again, James and John left their working immediately. Men who preach out of covetousness must leave off mending their nets.perfecting their erroneous, deceitful teachings that gather men and earthly things. Zebedee means gift.they must leave off preaching for gifts.for reward..for covetousness. The ship with Zebedee = preaching the Word of God deceitfully for giftsreward. Let us forsake our nets and follow Him in the Truth.

21 And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.
22 And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.

Many Christians are like the fishes who have been caught in an evil net.the erroneous preaching by covetous men. They need to be made aware of their predicament.

(Eccl 9:12 KJV) For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.

There are wicked men among us.tares.who seek to make merchandise of those they capture in their evil nets. They catch menand they bring them into their houses full of deceit. Most churches today have become houses of deceit.

(Jer 5:26 KJV) For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.

And the goal of these men is to become great.to get rich off of the flock of men that they catch.

27 As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich.

They have fattened themselves in the day of slaughter. They shinethey are slickthey have perfected their craftand they prosper in their deceitful ways.

28 They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.
29 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?
30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;

They prophesy falselythey preach the Bible with their falsehoods. They bear RULE by their means..and yet the people LOVE to have it so. What will they do in the end?

31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Will men still desire the net of evil men when the Truth is revealed? Will religious men stick up for their rulers in this last day? Will men love their pastors so much as to turn their ears from the revealing of the Truth?

(Prov 12:12 KJV) The wicked desireth the net of evil men: but the root of the righteous yieldeth fruit.

Apparently there will be MANY that shall follow after the pernicious ways of their pastors/church rulers. Apparently many in the church will keep to their pastors of error and speak evil of the Way of Truth in this last day. These false prophets will DENY the Lord that bought themthey will oppose and contradict His Word of Truth in the last day.

(2 Pet 2:1 KJV) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

Apparently, many will love to be taken advantage of by their church rulers. Apparently many will love to have it so.being made merchandise of .

3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

They will not hear and trust in the revealed Word of Truth but will trust in their own wealth.and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches. They will boast in their big church buildings upon the hill.they will boast in their successes in their ministries.in their successful books.in their abilities to catch many men in their nets.in their greatness in this world. They will think that their gain is a sign of their godliness. Their riches and success are powerful signs and wonders that deceive.

(Psa 49:6 KJV) They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;

Their wonderful works, though, will not redeem themselves..even though they say Lord, Lord.

7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
8 (For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever
9 That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption.
10 For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person perish, and leave their wealth to others.

They will think that their houses shall continue for ever.that their greatness shall live on .that their names shall be great among religious men.

11 Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue for ever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names.

Little do they know that they shall perish because they will have not received the love of the Truth and be saved. Those that are in honor and refuse to understand the will of God is like the beasts that perish.

12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.

Yet, those who follow their pernicious ways approve of their sayings. They love it so.

13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah.

The upright shall have dominion over them in the spiritual morning of the revealed Truth. Men who are in the express image of God (Christ Jesus) shall have dominion over the fishes of the sea and fowl of the air and over every living thing that creeps upon the earth.

14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.

Men who have put on the new man the image of God (Christ Jesus) shall tread upon the enemies of the Truth.the scorpions and the serpents. Kings in the church will be tread upon by those who know and love the revealed Truth. No longer will they be deceived by those who live in honor.

(Luke 10:19 KJV) Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Man that trusts in is own religious wealth and understands not the revealed Truth is like the beasts that perish.

(Psa 49:20 KJV) Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.

Men who trust in their own deceptions .their own covetousness.are to be captured. They will speak evil of the revealed Truth when it comes.they will like the way things are in their churchesthey will love their own unrighteousness more than the Truth.

(2 Pet 2:12 KJV) But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

They have covetous practices that they will not cease from.they will love their own unrighteousness more.

14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

continued in next post....

Wheeler · Aug 12, 2010

.....continued from previous post

The rich pastor/king must take heed and beware of covetousness. His life does not consist of the abundance of things which he possesses. His life is not his big congregation, his big church buildings, his glorious ministry.

(Luke 12:15 KJV) And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?

This is so fitting for today as we see many smaller churches being pulled down and mega churches being built. We are seeing religious man going for bigger and better. We see religious man worrying about the things of this world. He is pulling down his barns and building greater things. He is saying today to take his ease, eat, drink and be merry in his own doings.

18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

The rich pastor /king must not lay up treasures for himself.but must be rich toward God. He should receive the love of the Truth.lay down his nets and follow after Him. He should be fishers of men with the revealed Word of God in this last day.

21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
22 And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.

Living water shall flow out of the belly of those who will believe in the revealed Scripture of Truth. Man can then be a fisher of men in the revealed Truth if he will believe in the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Truth, the Way and the Life.

(John 7:38 KJV) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

And wherever these living waters shall comethere will be a great multitude of fish that will live.be healed. Men shall be healed of their spiritual sicknesses and sleep when they will hear the revealed Word of Truth. If we can deny ourselves and follow after Him, then we can be fishers of men.

(Ezek 47:9 KJV) And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

Engedi and Eneglaim are fountainswe can be fountains of living water in the Lord.we can be preachers of the revealed Scripture of Truth.

10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

But those who will stubbornly cling onto their own ways and thoughts will not be healed. They will be given to salt.being unproductive in the Word of God because they will not have received the love of the Truth when they hear it.

11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

Wheeler · Aug 12, 2010

.continued from previous posts.

Is your pastor a minister or a king..is he a prince of the gentiles. that exercises his authority over you in your church?

(Mat 20:25 KJV) But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

Is your pastor/king called a benefactor.a worker of good.a great man of God. and yet exercises his authority upon you in your worship?

(Luke 22:25 KJV) And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.

Does your pastor serve you in the name of God or does he serve himself and his own goalspursuing his own wonderful works.also done in the name of God?

26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

The Lord has spoken through Samuel about how a king reigns over his subjects..his congregation.

(1 Sam 8:10 KJV) And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.

Has your pastor/king given a spiritual gifts assessment test of his subjects in order to put them to work in his own ministry? Has he suggested that members be a part of a team ministry within the church in order to work toward the goals of the king? Has he spoke to you about your calling in the church? A king exercises his rule over you.he puts you to work for himhe burdens you with labor and lays burdens upon your shoulders with his teachings. He wants the numbers to grow with the help of your efforts.everything geared to growing his kingdom. The king pastor does not serve those under him..they serve the king pastor.

11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.

Has your pastor/king appointed his captains over the congregation of the church? Has he made instruments of war.preaching his own doctrines and biblical principles in order to keep his subjects in line to his goals and selfish ambitions? Has he broken down the church into a small groups ministry in order to maintain control over the flock? Has he appointed a leader over you to watch over your spiritual growth which really only serves to keep you in conformity to the goals and desires of the king pastor? The king appoints other leaders under him to maintain control while his kingdom grows larger.

12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.

Does your pastor/king demand a tithe? Does he expect a tenth of your seed money? A king takes a tenth from you.he reinforces this teaching with his instruments of war. He preaches straight out of the Bible those verses that seem to reinforce the tithe.

14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.

The tithe is a prime example of a king lordship in the church.for that is what a king does to rule over his subjects. The king collects his taxes from the subjects of his kingdom. He collects the tenth and gives it to his officers who determine what they should do with it. They are the kings servants who look after his best interest and in most cases, it is to bring attention to the good works of the benefactor.the king pastor of the church. It builds his kingdom.and helps make a name for himself. He takes a tenth of your seed money to grow the numbers..for example: building a bigger church.put in a coffee shop, gym ,etc and attract the masses into the doors of the kingdomall done in the name of God of course. It is all about the numbers for those who covet after the things in this world in their hearts.

15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.

The kings of the earth..the king pastors.take custom or tribute from those who they really dont care aboutthey take from anothers material wealth . strangers.

(Mat 17:25 KJV) He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

The congregation is expected to work for the king pastor.they are expected to work for the good of the church.. team ministries and the like. They volunteer their time, money and services for the church. But who are they really doing this work for? Is it really for God or is it for the king pastor? Whose church is it? Is it the pastor who started that church or for God who is our only King and Lord who is the only One that truly adds to the church?

16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.
17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.

Our Lord is our only King and Savior..all those that labor and are heavy laden under their kings will have rest.if they come unto Him.

(Mat 11:28 KJV) Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

If we come unto Him, we find that He is meek and lowly in heart to those who seek Him.unlike the kings who exercise dominion over their subjects. We shall find rest unto our souls from our heavy burdens that have been placed upon us by other men.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Our churches have become a religion of clichés..not knowing what they mean. Clichés that are spoken with no substance.

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