Random thoughts to consider....

Chickapee · Mar 7, 2010

my sisters answer after reading your posts Wheeler and this last one
Iv'e been trying to walk the walk of the tent we are walking, through God by observing the school-master...the first five books---"the Torah-"-- so I can make a straight path to get to the lord Jesus,,,circumsision of the heart romans 3;31 free to obey--not by the letter of the law which indeed did kill Jesus, but the love of the law psalms chapter 78 ,,,,by Loving His Law...not making it a Burden but a Blessing to keep....for if you remember the young prince came to Jesus and asked what he must do in order to obtain eternal life and Jesus replyed "You Must Do the First Commandment by Loving the Lord God Wit h All Your "Heart,Mind<Soul" and then love your neighbor as yourself......I guess you are to lay your needs aside in order to treat each brother better and better for their benifit---thinking of their needs first before your own--like Jesus....How can a person enjoy all these other evil things knowing that some poor little starving children are dying of "worms,disease,pestalance, & Hungar" and they are able bodied enough to "share" their goods with the needy--Whoever has need....... Instead of lavishing all the extra "THINGS" that don't profit....?Wood,brick,stone, and stubble?
We gotta be careful for what our "Hand" does to decieve us and to "serve" from the Heart....because they Flattered Jesus with their "Mouths" while using their hands to do evil.....so if thy right hand causes you to sin cut if off for it is "Better to enter Life in Hell with one hand" then to go in with "Two Hands".
Sis I have things to get done around this place so I will be ready for work in the morning, love sis

Chickapee · Mar 7, 2010

I have been thinking about the manna and how the manna become wormy and saw in Mark 9 just how the worms dies not and fire is not queched
I love How the Word of God is eternal and what we LIVE BY ! and die by

this was very interesting study
And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. Strong's H7415 - rimmah worm bread by purification 1) maggot, worm (as cause and sign of decay) From רָמַם (H7426) in the sense of breeding [compare רוּם (H7311)] 2) (Qal) to be rotten, be wormy a) (Qal) to be exalted

Job 17:14I have said to corruption, Thou [art] my father: to the worm, [Thou art] my mother, and my sister.

Job 24:20The womb shall forget him; the worm shall feed sweetly on him; he shall be no more remembered; and wickedness shall be broken as a tree.

Job 25:6How much less man, [that is] a worm? and the son of man, [which is] a worm? 1) worm, scarlet stuff, crimson
a) worm - the female 'coccus ilicis'
b) scarlet stuff, crimson, scarlet
1) the dye made from the dried body of the female of the worm "coccus ilicis"
2) worm, maggot
a) worm, grub
b) the worm "coccus ilicis"When the female of the scarlet worm species was ready to give birth to her young, she would attach her body to the trunk of a tree, fixing herself so firmly and permanently that she would never leave again. The eggs deposited beneath her body were thus protected until the larvae were hatched and able to enter their own life cycle. As the mother died, the crimson fluid stained her body and the surrounding wood. From the dead bodies of such female scarlet worms, the commercial scarlet dyes of antiquity were extracted. What a picture this gives of Christ, dying on the tree, shedding his precious blood that he might 'bring many sons unto glory' (Hbr 2:10)! He died for us, that we might live through him! Psa 22:6 describes such a worm and gives us this picture of Christ. (cf. Isa 1:18)" (Henry Morris. Biblical Basis for Modern Science, Baker Book House, 1985, p. 73)

Psa 22:6But I [am] a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Isa 14:11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [and] the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

Isa 41:14Fear not, thou worm Jacob, [and] ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

Isa 51:8For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation.

Isa 66:24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Jon 4:7But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.

Mar 9:44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Strong's G4663 - skōlēx 1) a worm, spec. that kind which preys upon dead bodies

Mar 9:46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mar 9:48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9

Jesus went on to say, I tell you the truth, some standing here right now will not die before they see the Kingdom of God arrive in great power! The Transfiguration

2 Six days later Jesus took Peter, James, and John, and led them up a high mountain to be alone. As the men watched, Jesus appearance was transformed, 3 and his clothes became dazzling white, far whiter than any earthly bleach could ever make them. 4 Then Elijah and Moses appeared and began talking with Jesus.
5 Peter exclaimed, Rabbi, its wonderful for us to be here! Lets make three shelters as memorials

Chickapee · Mar 7, 2010

the post was tooo long and cut off somewhere in the middle

but , seems there are two types of worm in the scriptures the first rimmah found in the manna
bread / multipied in death / decay and corruption

the second towla depends and is sustaind by Jesus /WORD OF GOD and His Life

Chickapee · Mar 7, 2010

it wont let me post Mark 9 ?? so I will continue to try and share some more thoughts as time permits
Blessings in Jesus C,,,,

Wheeler · Mar 9, 2010

Hi Chickapee, will read your posts and your sisters and respond later. I had already typed up this post before I saw your posts.

Wheeler

We are to come to the Lord for the understanding of the Scriptures. We cannot lean upon our own understanding of the Bible as many have done for their own honorfor the things of this life.for riches.

(Prov 3:5 KJV) Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

(Prov 23:4 KJV) Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom.

We must come to him who has the words of Life. He is the Fountain of Life.

(John 5:39 KJV) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.

The Lord will open up a fountain for us to become clean from our sins.we have all missed the mark of the Truth. We have all sinned and fell short of the glory of God. Our interpretations of the Bible are in error.we have completely missed the mark. Many have taught the Word of God for their own honor.for their own glory and riches.they do err not knowing the Scriptures.and many have listened and followed after them. Many have gone through the wide gate of the false prophets. The false prophets deceive people by leaning on their own understanding.. but there will be a fountain of Life opened up for us.for forgiveness of our failings.

(Psa 36:8 KJV) They shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of thy house; and thou shalt make them drink of the river of thy pleasures.

Christ is the Fountain of Life..the Light. His knowledge is Light.and that Light will shine through every word in the Scriptures when he reveals it to us.

9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

A Fountain shall be opened to usfor sin and uncleanness. We are to take of the water of Life freelythe clean, pure water of the Word..which is untainted by mans ways and thoughts. In that day.the day of the revelation of Christ Jesus.there shall be a fountain opened.

(Zec 13:1 KJV) In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

The Lord will cut off the names of the idols out of the landand will cause the prophets and unclean spirit to pass out of the land. He will cut off those who teach false doctrines of men which are based on their own wisdom of the Bible. The Scriptures will no longer be taught in error by self-seeking men who do so for their own glory and honor.

2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

To do so, He will open up the Scriptures for our understanding so that we may know Him and see the error of ungodly men who have ruled over us in the last 2000 yearsthe man of sin will be revealed.for ungodly men will not stand for the preaching of the pure Word of Godbut will reject it and those who receive it. The Lord will sit down at meat with us.the meat of the Word.and he will break the bread.he will interpret the Scriptures..the Word is broken down so that we may understand. The Lords supper indeed!

(Luke 24:30 KJV) And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.

And then our eyes shall open and we shall fully know Him. We shall know Him with the mind of Christ.His knowledge. We will no longer see Jesus after the flesh..he vanished out of their sight.

31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

We shall no longer read the Scriptures in an earthly, literal way..to know it after the fleshin a historical waybut we will know Him and His knowledge in a spiritual way. We shall no longer see Jesus and all of the saints of the Bible as men who lived thousands of years ago.we shall know the Lord as a life-giving Spirit who opens the Scriptures to understanding. The literal will vanish from our sight and we will understand the Bible with the mind of Christthe Life- giving Spirit.

(2 Cor 5:16 KJV) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

He is the Life-giving Spirit.a quickening Spirit:

(1 Cor 15:45 KJV) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

We will see no man.but Jesus only.

(Mat 17:8 KJV) And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

The Scriptures will change from the earthly understanding (the darkness) into the spiritual understanding by the Power of God. It is the power of God who will do this.who will open our eyes so that we may know the Scripturesand know Him. Man cannot open our eyes to His understanding..it is by the power of God.Christ Jesus.

(Mat 22:29 KJV) Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

God Himself will teach us.and we will know Him. He will forgive us for our errors.

(Jer 31:34 KJV) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This Word..the earthly understanding will be removed so that the spiritual things that cannot be shaken may remain. All the rulers in our churches who trust in the earthly understanding will be shaken.the heavens will be shakenas they see the transformation of the Bible from their corrupt understanding to the understanding of the mind of Christ.

(Heb 12:27 KJV) And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

He shall open our eyes and turn us from darkness to Light..from the power of Satan unto God:

(Acts 26:18 KJV) To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Satan and his ministers have their power to deceive with the earthly, literal understanding of the Bible..the dust which is easily corrupted by their own understanding. They have kept religious men concentrating on the things of man and not of God.

(Mark 8:33 KJV) But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

They go upon their belly and eat the dust all the days of their lives:

(Gen 3:14 KJV) And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

They call themselves men of God (they say Lord, Lord)but their God is their belly..their glory is in their shame.they mind earthly things and not the things of God. They will not receive the love of the revealed Truth when they hear itthey will resist it.and be destroyed in the end.

(Phil 3:19 KJV) Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

They are the many who corrupt the Word of God .for vain gloryfor unjust gain.

(2 Cor 2:17 KJV) For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

They walk in craftiness.handling the Word of God deceitfully.

(2 Cor 4:2 KJV) But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

The full, glorious, eternal gospel shall be hid from them.because they will not love it when they hear it. They will want to keep things the sameas it has been done in our churches for the last 2000 years. The gospel will be hid from professing religious people.who say Lord, Lord and yet not believe in the revealed Truth when the time comes.

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

The god of this world will have blinded their minds to the revealed Truth blinded to the Light of the glorious gospel of Christwho will shine His knowledge into us who hear with our ears.

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The gospel will be hid to those who preach themselves.who preach for their own vain glory.for things of menfor things of this life. They will only be interested in continuing to build their ministries in their own names.to build churches in their own names.to do wonderful works for their own vain glory.and yet say it is all for God. They will resist the Spirit of Truth in due time. He will come as a thief in the night to those who arent watching.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

There is a treasure hidden underneath the external, earthly surface understanding of the Bible. The power and wisdom of God will reveal it..and not mans feeble mind.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

We are to awake from the sleep we are currently in.we have slept in the dust of the earth.in the earthly understanding of the Bible and being led astray by men of corrupt minds. Some will awake to everlasting life through the belief of the revealed, heavenly Truth..others will have everlasting contempt because they will not receive the love of the Truth and be saved. They will love sleep.

(Dan 12:2 KJV) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

We are to awake.open our eyes.and be satisfied with the bread of Truth. Love not sleep.

(Prov 20:13 KJV) Love not sleep, lest thou come to poverty; open thine eyes, and thou shalt be satisfied with bread.

But there will be those who will love sleepwho will resist the Truth for the dust. They will resist it in their religious pride and earthly, religious understandingfor the things of man. But they will be humbled.they will enter into the rock and hide in the dust for fear of the Lord. They will enter into the rock = they shall say to him Lord, Lord.

(Isa 2:10 KJV) Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty.
11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

They will seek to cover themselves with their wonderful works. They will seek to cover themselves with their doctrines (prophesied in thy name).they will seek to cover themselves with their works of dust.the things of man and not those of God. Notice that there will be many who will say to him in that day. Lord, Lord..

(Mat 7:22 KJV) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It will be too late.they will have made their decision.instead of true Life in God that should have been theirs, they will choose death. Instead of Gods knowledge, they will choose to stick to their own.a covenant with death.

(Prov 1:24 KJV) Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

But their covenant with death will not stand..they will not hide themselves under their lies and falsehoods that they preach. Their wonderful works and glorious words will not save them.they will have refused Him who spoke to them.

(Isa 28:15 KJV) Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Those that hear His Word.His revealed Truth.and DO them shall be saved.building their house upon the Rock of His revelation of the Truth. But those who hear and reject the Truth will have their house crash.

16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Chickapee · Mar 9, 2010

I am so glad you did Wheeler ! Thanks ,and many blessings in the Lord this day ....

Wheeler · Mar 11, 2010

Jesus is the true bread from heaven. Jesus made the distinction between the bread of Moses and the true bread. If we look back in Exodus, we see the Lord speaking very prophetically to Moses.He spoke of Christ Jesus who would ultimately come as the true bread to them. The true bread, Christ Jesus, would come down from heaven to prove them whether they will walk in my law or not. They were to be tested to see if they would accept Jesus words as the true bread from heaven.and as we know, many did not. They had proved that they did not walk in His Law.

(Exo 16:4 KJV) Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

This wasnt just to the children of Israel back in Moses day.but also to the Jews of Jesus day. Take note of the words and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day. The words certain rate is the Hebrew word dabar which means spoken word. The test was to see if the people would gather or pick up the words of Christ (the bread) in the day.in other words, BELIEVE in the spoken words of Jesus which are the words of God. Christ Jesus is the Light of the day. The doctrine was of God.Jesus words are spirit and life.yet the Jewish leaders did not listen to him.the bread of life. They were proved of God to see if they would walk in His Law or not. They showed that they did not.they had sought their own glory..and they hated their brother, Jesus.

(John 7:16 KJV) Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

They did not pass this testthey demonstrated that they did not follow in His Law because they did not recognize the Words of God when they heard them from Jesus.they did not walk in His Law. They did not listen to Moses nor the Prophets who testified of the true bread who would come from heaven and they sought to kill Jesus. They did not keep the Law of God:

19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

And going back to Exodus, we see another prophecy. In the evening they would eat flesh and in the morning they would be filled with bread. The evening was the time before Christ Jesus in which they would follow the external Law.that is the flesh.
But in the morning, they would be filled with bread. Christ Jesus is the morning star and the bread from heaven that would satisfy them. He is the morning. All these things were teaching the children of Israel about what to expect..the evenual arrival and belief they should have in Christ Jesus.the true bread by which they would be fully satisfied with.

(Exo 16:12 KJV) I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God.

Ye shall know that I am the Lord your God...the Bread from heaven would enable them to fully know God. The words Christ speak are spirit and life.the flesh does not profit.that is, following the external Law (the flesh) that was to be the schoolmaster that would lead up to the words spoken by Jesus.the true bread from heaven. They were to believe and be satisfied in spirit and truth in the words of Life. .the Bread of Life. They would have fully known Life in God.

(John 6:63 KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

He is the Bread of Life in which they were to be full of in the morning.

(John 6:35 KJV) And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Once the true Bread of Life came, there was no longer any need for the schoolmaster. The schoolmaster no longer profits.now that faith in Christ has come.

(Gal 3:25 KJV) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The external works of the law profit nothing..we are not made perfect by the fleshthe works of the law. Flesh was given them in the evening to eatbut now the true bread in the morning had come to satisfy.Christ Jesus.

(Gal 3:2 KJV) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Moses did not give them that bread from heaven.the true bread. The external Law came through Moses in order to teach and lead them eventually to Christ. They should have recognized, accepted and believed in Jesus if they had truly followed the Law.because it taught them what to look for.

(John 6:32 KJV) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

And as Moses told them, let no man leave of it till the morning:

(Exo 16:19 KJV) And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.

The spiritual morning is Jesus Christ.the true light that shines in the darkness.the bright, morning star that rises up to make the day..the day star. When Jesus came to his own, the Jews, they were to receive him. It was time to listen to Jesus.one greater than Moses. It was time for them to leave the schoolmaster and accept Christ. It was time for them to eat of the true bread from heaven and to not keep the old. It was time for them to be free in Christ and not continue to be bound. It was their time to come unto him..Jesus would have gave them rest if they had believed in his words. They would have had a true Sabbath rest.they would have ceased from their labors..and the heavy laden that the leaders put upon them.all the doctrines and commandments of men that were added to Moses.the Law.

(Mat 11:28 KJV) Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

All they had to do was learn of him.he would have taught them the words of Life and would have found rest in God.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

But, the Jewish leaders did not listen to Moses. Since they did not listen to Moses, they could not listen to Jesus. They hearkened not unto Moses.a prophecy of the reaction of the leaders to Jesus. Moses was wroth with them.

(Exo 16:20 KJV) Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.

If they believed not Moses writings (they hearkened not unto Moses,) then how should they have believed Jesus words?

(John 5:47 KJV) But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Moses was wroth..Moses accused them because they did not believe his words. they hearkened not unto Moses.

(John 5:45 KJV) Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

They kept and used the old mannaand it bred worms. The word for bred is ruwm which means to rise or raise, to exalt, proud. This was all a prophecy. The Jewish leaders indeed rose up in their religious pride (with the old manna that they hung onto into the morning) against Jesus. The word for worms is towla which means crimson grub or maggot.and it comes from the word yala which means to blurt or utter inconsiderately. Indeed, the Jewish leaders uttered proudly and inconsiderately against Jesus. They sinned.. crimson. They used the Law in words of pride.to sin.to stand against the Lord.

(Mat 12:2 KJV) But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

By their stout words were they condemned..

(Mat 12:37 KJV) For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

To be continued..

Chickapee · Mar 12, 2010

Thanks Wheeler , I love the way you just dig in to Gods word and the way you
express His Word
I love this and yes it helps me to see more clearly , It also makes alot more scriptures ''click'' for me
like the bread being Jesus Christ from heaven is satisfying

His flesh/ bread and Blood / wine is the communion we have in His Body

you have really touched on some great thoughts on the matter !
the Living Word / Bread of Heaven that God sent ... to fill us sustain us

and the warning of pride being the leaven to corrupt the True Bread/ Word of God !
the bread of wickedness is pride and the wine of violence , a murderer and liar !

Pro 4:17For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence.

1Cr 5:8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.

We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death.
1Jo 3:15Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

My little children, let us not love in word,

neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

Oh this is a great topic
we can see the hypocrisy in pride because the desired to Kill Jesus ! their word and deed was to lie and murder works of the hands Luk 12:1In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
Mat 26:45Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take [your] rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
And [some] of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Jhn 9:41Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

much blessings Wheeler in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ ..... C

Chickapee · Mar 12, 2010

they did not love the Truth / Jesus Christ / word of God they hated him without a cause

Wheeler · Mar 14, 2010

I think you highlighted what it means for the worm not dying.

The Jewish leaders heard Jesus words and did not believe him. They did not obey his voice and provoked him with their words. They withstood him.they contradicted him.they resisted the Truth. They were antichrist. Therefore, their sin remained upon them.they were not pardoned.

(John 9:41 KJV) Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

As Moses said, Jesus was that Angel that was sent to keep them in the Way of righteousness.he was to bring them into the place which God had prepared for them.they were to enter into His rest.

(Exo 23:20 KJV) Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

But many did not obey his voice and provoked him..and so their transgressions were not pardoned. Their sin remained..their worm died not.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

Jesus was the Archangel Michael..meaning who is like God?. who contended with the Pharisees over the body of Moses..the Writings of Moses. The Jewish leaders resisted Jesuswho had the chief message of the Truth that they were to listen to .
(Jude 1:9 KJV) Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Jesus did not accuse them (railing accusation) to the Father..but Moses himself would be the witness against them because they did not hear the words of Moses. They did not believe the Writings of Moses.

(John 5:45 KJV) Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

As God said, he was the Prophet from among them.their brother.who was like Moses and spoke the Word of God from his mouth.

(Deu 18:18 KJV) I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Those who did not listen to Jesus, who spoke the Word of God in Truth, was held accountable for their provoking words. They did not listen to their brother, Jesus, and so was judged. They did not believe Moses nor the Lord.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

They were angry with their brother without cause..they hated him without cause. They were judged by their words and their sin remained upon them.the worm did not die.

(Mat 5:22 KJV) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Those that resisted Jesus words were unable to escape the judgment of hell.or Gehenna.

(Mat 23:33 KJV) Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

They had been visited by the Lord.the day of the Lord.and they did not listen to His words. Their sin was visited upon them.

(Exo 32:34 KJV) Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.

They have been judged..their worm dies not.nor has their fire been quenched. Their sin has remained upon them until the appointed time that the Lord will turn them from their sin.

(Isa 66:24 KJV) And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

They did not like to retain God in their knowledge and so God gave them over to a reprobate mind to be filled with all unrighteousness..the fire. There is no peace of mind in the fire..there is not the peace of God for those who have been given over to the fire of wickedness..who willfully transgressed. They did not enter into His rest because of the unbelief of Jesus words.they did not obey His voice and were prevented from entering into His rest.

(Rom 1:28 KJV) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Wickedness burns as the fire.and it is not quenched. Their sin has remained upon them and sin devours.the worm does not die. Violence against each other results.hatred. There is no peace given from God.

(Isa 9:18 KJV) For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke.
19 Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother.

Judgment is the prison that they were thrown into..they contended with their adversary.Jesus. They did not make peace with him and so were given to the Judge and was delivered to the officer who cast them into the prison.the fire that has not been quenchedand the worm does not die.

(Luke 12:58 KJV) When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.

But, they will depart from it as shown here..when the last mite has been paid:

59 I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.

The Jewish leaders spoke evil of the things they did not understand and have perished in their own corruption.decay.

(2 Pet 2:12 KJV) But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

As it says in Proverbs, the wicked shall fall by their own wickedness. They were judged by their words against the Truth of God.

(Prov 11:5 KJV) The righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way: but the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness.
6 The righteousness of the upright shall deliver them: but transgressors shall be taken in their own naughtiness.

The sins of the fathers.the Jewish leaders of Jesus day .have been visited upon the children unto the third and fourth generationof them that hate Him. The fire has not been quenched nor the worm has died until the spiritual fourth generation.

(Exo 20:5 KJV) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

But as God spoke unto Abram, they will come again to their rightful place.in the spiritually-discerned fourth generation. The iniquity of the Amorites = the fullness of the Gentiles.

(Gen 15:16 KJV) But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

The Deliverer shall turn away ungodliness from all of Israel..from Jacob.

(Rom 11:25 KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

He will take away their sins ..for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

The raising of Lazarus from the dead is a literal parable of the future removing of the sins of Jacob..Israel of the flesh. He tells his disciples that he will go into Judea AGAIN:

(John 11:7 KJV) Then after that saith he to his disciples, Let us go into Judaea again.

Even though they have been enemies of the Lord they will be saved.He will turn them from their sins.from the sins of the fathers who had rejected His words.

8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?

He will come to give them His Light.to awake them out of their sleep. There are 12 hours in the day.there are 12 tribes that make up Israel.He will save ALL of Israel. We, collectively, will shine the Day into the darkness of this world.

9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Lazarus means God helps..He will be the Delivererthe helper for themand they will listen this time. When Jesus came, he found Lazarus laying in the grave for 4 days already:

(John 11:17 KJV) Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already.

The four days = the fourth generation.the sins of the fathers had been visited upon the children unto the fourth generation. They shall come to their own place in the fourth generation.the four days.

(Gen 15:16 KJV) But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

They shall rise again.for the Lord is the resurrection and the Life.He will make them live again in the Lord.

(John 11:23 KJV) Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

The receiving of them shall be Life from the dead:

(Rom 11:15 KJV) For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Jesus wept over Lazarus. NOTEthis is in the PRESENT TENSE GREEK. Our translators in their earthly thinking have put it in the past tense in English. It is properly Jesus WEEPS..he weeps for his brothers..for their blindness.

(John 11:35 KJV) Jesus wept.
36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!

And NOT coincidentally, they noted how Jesus had opened the eyes of the blind. Jesus will indeed open their eyes so that they may see again! The light will shine in the darkness. Life from the dead.

37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?

The veil covers their eyes..but it will be removed. The stone shall be taken away.

38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.

The four days = the fourth generation. He stinketh..as a result of the judgment.the reprobate mind that has filled with all unrighteousness. The manna bred worms and it stank.

39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

Jesus lifts up his eyes.the knowledge of God shall fill the earth.

41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

The dead came forth..the receiving of them shall be life from the dead. Their graveclothes shall be removed.the veil upon the face shall be removed.

43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

To be continued.

Chickapee · Mar 14, 2010

geart thoughts Wheeler ,
going to read this all before answering

the error of Israel is idolatry unfaithfulness which leads to blasphemy
and that is what the gentiles /all nations are under now
learning not to Lie against the Truth or Holy Spirit

Jesus always glorified God
and though out the scriptures we see that the name of God was / is blasphemed
railed against

2Ki 19:22Whom hast thou reproached and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted [thy] voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? [even] against the Holy [One] of Israel.

Psa 74:18Remember this, [that] the enemy hath reproached, O LORD, and [that] the foolish people have blasphemed thy name.

Isa 37:6And Isaiah said unto them, Thus shall ye say unto your master, Thus saith the LORD, Be not afraid of the words that thou hast heard, wherewith the servants of the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.

Isa 37:23Whom hast thou reproached and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted [thy] voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? [even] against the Holy One of Israel.

Isa 52:5Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day [is] blasphemed.

Isa 65:7Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

Eze 20:27Therefore, son of man, speak unto the house of Israel, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Yet in this your fathers have blasphemed me, in that they have committed a trespass against me.

Act 18:6And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook [his] raiment, and said unto them, Your blood [be] upon your own heads; I [am] clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

Rom 2:24For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

1Ti 6:1Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and [his] doctrine be not blasphemed.

Tts 2:5[To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Rev 16:9And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
grateful for the posts Wheeler , praise God ... C

Wheeler · Mar 16, 2010

Going back to Exodus and Numbersa prophecy is presented to us.

The mixed multitude went out of Egypt also. The mixed multitude represents the Gentiles who would also come out of spiritual Egypt.

(Exo 12:38 KJV) And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

But the mixed multitude fell into lusting (covetousness) in the desert. This is a literal parable of the many in the Gentile church who have also fallen into covetousness. This is all a prophecy that was demonstrated to Moses thousands of years ago. Moses knew, by the reaction and deeds of the people back then, how the Jews and the Gentiles of the future would react to the Lord Jesus Christ. Again, the mixed multitude represented the Gentile church who would fall into covetous ways in these days.

(Num 11:4 KJV) And the mixed multitude that was among them fell a lusting: and the children of Israel also wept again, and said, Who shall give us flesh to eat?

What has the Gentile church coveted after? Things of Egypt.the food of the world.the things of man.worldly things. They remember.to keep in mind foremostthe things of this life. They mind earthly things. Egypt = the world. We are to love God first and seek His kingdom first.

5 We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlic:

We were to be content with living in Christ.having and behaving in love for each other. But, many had the desire to press forward with their activitiespursuing their own righteousness with the works of their own hands. Their soul has dried away because many in the church were not content with just loving each other and to patiently wait on the Lord.they had fallen into craving and going after worldly things within their churches. This is fairly obvious todayespecially from the outside. This manna before our eyes..this manna that we have knowledge of.it wasnt enough for them.

6 But now our soul is dried away: there is nothing at all, beside this manna, before our eyes.

The manna was the color of bedellium:

7 And the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof as the colour of bdellium.

The Hebrew word for color is ayin which means eye, fountain, knowledge and the word for bdellium is bedolach which means something in pieces. In other words, they were not content with knowing the Scriptures in part.for we have only known in part..in pieces. For NOW we see through a glass darkly.we know in part.

(1 Cor 13:12 KJV) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

As we wait for the perfect knowledge of God to come, we were to NOW abide in faith, hope and love.love beingthe greatest.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

We are to follow after love and desire SPIRITUAL things.not covet after the things of the world .after the food of Egypt. To prophesy means to preach the Word of God with His knowledgewith His meaning and not our own. When we preach leaning upon our own wisdom, then divisions, envy, strife, hatred are a result.

14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

Our faith is for the Lord to come and open up all of the Scriptures for us.our hope is for deliverance from ungodly men who preach the Word in their covetousness.

The manna is referring to the Scriptures which is an extension of the body of Christ. All those witnesses of the Bible are in Christ..are a part of his body. And so we see in the book of Numbers, the people went about. to push forward.in the Scriptures (went about and gathered the manna) with their own knowledge.not satisfied with knowing in part. They have taken the manna.the Scriptures.and ground it in mills, beat it in mortar, baked it in pans and made cakes of it. They have misused them for their own covetous activities. but the taste of it was as the taste of fresh oil.indicating the forgiveness for our sins by the Lord. He forgives us because we do it in ignorance.only knowing in part.

Numbers 11:8 And the people went about, and gathered it, and ground it in mills, or beat it in a mortar, and baked it in pans, and made cakes of it: and the taste of it was as the taste of fresh oil.

The Gentiles have taken the Scriptures and mocked, scourged and crucified them.just as they did to the literal body of Jesus. Jesus was the harbinger of things to comehe showed us by his life, death, and resurrection how the Scriptures themselves would also be fulfilled in like manner.

(Mat 20:19 KJV) And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

The mixed multitudethe Gentile church.fell into lusting..we were to beware of covetousness:

(Luke 12:15 KJV) And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

The Gentile church has sought after the things of manthey covet after these things: what shall we eatwhat shall we drink.what shall we be clothed in. In other words, the Gentiles have sought after their own knowledge of the Scriptures..they have sought after their own doctrines.they sought after their own works to be clothed in. Many seek their own vain glory in building great ministries, grand church buildings, selling religious merchandise, etc, etc. We seek after those things as a top priority. Our God has forgiven us of these things because we have done them in our ignorance of His knowledge. But there is a limit on these things.for our Lord will reveal the Truth and we are to cleanse ourselves from these things. The mixed multitude.the Gentilesseek after the things of this world.they fell a lusting.

(Mat 6:31 KJV) Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

We are to seek first the kingdom of God and HIS righteousness..not our own.
The Gentile church has made it a priority to seek after their own things in their own knowledge. The wonderful works of religious men will not save us.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

By seeking after our own wisdom and knowledge of the Scriptures, we show we are lusting after flesh to eat.

Our God is going to give us the meat of the Word.the revealed Truth. But we are to sanctify ourselves when He does. We are to cleanse ourselves from our unrighteousnessour coveting.our hatredsour divisionsour strife and envy. These things are a prophecy for us today:

(Num 11:18 KJV) And say thou unto the people, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow, and ye shall eat flesh: for ye have wept in the ears of the LORD, saying, Who shall give us flesh to eat? for it was well with us in Egypt: therefore the LORD will give you flesh, and ye shall eat.

It is by the Spirit of Godthe Spirit of Truth.who will reveal these things to us.the meat of the Word. The quails fell around the camp as it were two cubits high upon the face of the earth. The two witnesses..the Writings of Moses and the Prophets.will be thoroughly explained by the Spirit of Truth. We shall see the meaning of them be given through the surface understanding.the face of the earth. The literal will change to the spiritual.which is the true meat. The two witnesses will speak with new meaning through Christ Jesus.

(Num 11:31 KJV) And there went forth a wind from the LORD, and brought quails from the sea, and let them fall by the camp, as it were a day's journey on this side, and as it were a day's journey on the other side, round about the camp, and as it were two cubits high upon the face of the earth.

They fell around the camp.we are compassed about with a great cloud of witnesses.those of the Scriptures who will speak spiritual things to us. Their true meanings will be thoroughly explained. They are round about the camp = we are compassed about with a great cloud of witnesses.

(Heb 12:1 KJV) Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

And the people stood up all that day, all that night.and all the next day and gathered the quails. This next verse speaks of the resurrection of the people of God.in the revealed Truth..the meat of the Word.

(Num 11:32 KJV) And the people stood up all that day, and all that night, and all the next day, and they gathered the quails: he that gathered least gathered ten homers: and they spread them all abroad for themselves round about the camp.

Three groups of people are mentioned here in this prophecy of the resurrection of the Truth.

The people stood up all that day = the resurrection of the just..the standing up of the children of the Day = those who will awake from the dust to everlasting life. They will receive the love of the Truth.

(1 Th 5:5 KJV) Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

The people who stand up all that night = the resurrection of the unjust = children of the night = those who love the darkness of their own deeds instead of the revealed Light will awake to contempt. These are the people of God who will not receive the love of the revealed Truth and be saved. They will stand up to oppose it in their pride of this life. They will have not sanctified themselves in the Truth but instead will continue in their lust. The abomination of desolation..covetousnesswill stand up where it should not. They prefer to stay asleep to the great revelation of the Truth.the meat of the Word of God.

(1 Th 5:7 KJV) For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

The people of all the next day = the many Jews who will be eventually grafted in again. The receiving of them is life from the dead. They are those who still must enter in to His rest another day = the next day. Children of the next day who are to enter into His rest at the appointed time.

(Heb 4:6 KJV) Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Continued in next post.....

Wheeler · Mar 16, 2010

continued from previous post......

(Num 11:32 KJV) And the people stood up all that day, and all that night, and all the next day, and they gathered the quails: he that gathered least gathered ten homers: and they spread them all abroad for themselves round about the camp.

NOTE : he that gathered least gathered ten homersmeans those who will have diminished the revealed Word will gather to themselves the wrath of God. The word least means to lessen, to pare off, to bring to nothing. In other words, they will reject the revealed Truth when it comes which will bring the wrath of God upon them. They will have not sanctified themselves in the Truth of God. Ten homers.ten represents completion.and homer means to bubble up, to glowwhich the wrath of God will do against those who lessen His revealed Word. We are not to diminish His Word.

(Deu 4:2 KJV) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

(Rev 22:19 KJV) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

They will not receive the love of the Truth and after the hardness of their hearts will treasure up unto themselves wrath they gather ten homers .wrath to the uttermost. They will be contentious about the Truth and not obey.they will diminish His Word.they will instead continue in their own unrighteousness and not sanctify themselves. Their sins will be filled upcompletethe fullness of the sins of the Gentiles.the iniquity of the Amorites will be filled up.ten homers.

(Rom 2:5 KJV) But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

NOTE also that they spread them all abroad for themselves round about the camp.
These people who, will oppose the Truth, will enlarge themselves in their pride against those who do receive the love of the Truth. They will speak evil of those who have escaped from them who live in error. Those who hear and believe the revealed Truth will suffer persecution by those who do not accept it. They will compass the camp of the saints about but the wrath of God will come upon them and they will perish in their own corruption.

(Rev 20:9 KJV) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

And continuing in Numbers, we see that while the flesh was yet between their teeth, before it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was kindled against the people.,,,,:

(Num 11:33 KJV) And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague.

Between their teeththe word for between is beyn which means a distinction. The word comes from biyn which means to understand, know, have distinction. In other words, they will have received the full knowledge of God but not love it. But before they could chew it..destroy it, the wrath of God was kindled and He smote them with a very great plague. Nothing and nobody can stand against Gods revelation of the Truth.

34 And he called the name of that place Kibrothhattaavah: because there they buried the people that lusted.
35 And the people journeyed from Kibrothhattaavah unto Hazeroth; and abode at Hazeroth.

Chickapee · Mar 16, 2010

Wow , I love how you saw Michael as Jesus ! the Angel who watches over Israel
like a shepherd as well
so many things you are bringing to LIGHT / Knowledge of Him , still reading your other post Wheeler , looking forward to reading these two you wrote for today ...

about the Law and prophets and in John 5 ;45 believing the writings and now Jesus Words ... the Letter of the Law that kills made me think of Hebrews 10
dying without mercy under two or three witnesses
and Jesus being the Living Word and those rejecting this Knowledge would have no remedy for those whom do so reject the ''gift/ Spirit of grace '' which is the mercy and Love of God though Jesus Christ ..

Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God

the Law of Moses , not hearing him / body of Moses law and prophets
should bring us all to repentance ! a change of mind and heart towards God and fear Him which is the begining of Wisdom
they did not retain this knowledge

wow Wheeler your posts have ''sparked'' some awesome truths to me !

Bless you AMEN To the Lord and His Wisdom and those whom He sends in His Holy Name !

the worm that does not die is the same ''dead works'' that has remined thoughout all this time and the fire of judgment is not quenched ...Hbr 9:14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the World ...... this ''perfect sacrifice '''
if rejected leaves no hope for them that need to be saved , body , soul and Spirit and have not Jesus peace and Spirit dwelling within them to save them
Mat 10:28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

1Th 5:23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

the second time Jesus comes is without sin or the purging of our conscience of dead works

the old adam must die under the law of sin it is the wages required for sin , but Jesus is the sacrifice and His blood Judges in grace and has mercy on us ! the Lord comes and is the Life giving Spirit
that makes us new creatures in Christ , we than become His possesion and part of His body

Jesus come in the fulness of time Gal 4:4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Hebrews 9 have to read the whole chapter

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world:

but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
this is all so enlightning

Praise God !!

Chickapee · Mar 16, 2010

There is so much to ''grasp'' seeing that all of Israel shall be saved
I have read more of your message
I could not help but think of How the Father caused the blindness of Israel
so the Fulness of the Gentiles could come in
and Jesus dying on the Cross / Tree said Father forgive them for they know not what they do '''

the blindness / darkness is ignorance 1Jo 2:11But he that hateth his brother is in darkness,

and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth,

because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Strong's G4653 - skotia

1) darkness
2) the darkness due to want of light
3) metaph. used of ignorance of divine things,

and its associated wickedness, and the resultant misery in hell

the vail /veil over Moses face is what covers the Light / knowledge ?

the Light of the world is Jesus Christ ..Strong's G5457 - phōs
1) light
a) the light
1) emitted by a lamp
2) a heavenly light such as surrounds angels when they appear on earth

1Jo 2:8Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

1Jo 2:9He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1Jo 2:11But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

2Cr 3:13And not as Moses, [which] put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ.
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.

the olive trees the natural one and wild one the two witnesses
we are to see Live when the Spirit of God rasies them from death

Your message is really helping me percieve better now , Thanks be to God in His mercy though Jesus Christ ....
light being

b) anything emitting light
1) a star
2) fire because it is light and sheds light
3) a lamp or torch
c) light, i.e brightness
1) of a lamp
2) metaph.
a) God is light because light has the extremely delicate, subtle, pure, brilliant quality
b) of truth and its knowledge, together with the spiritual purity associated with it
c) that which is exposed to the view of all, openly, publicly
d) reason, mind
1) the power of understanding esp. moral and spiritual truth

and blindness Strong's G4457 - pōrōsis

1) the covering with a callus
2) obtrusiveness of mental discernment, dulled perception
3) the mind of one has been blunted
a) of stubbornness, obduracy

Rom 11:25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
seeing things more clearly and differently than before today ....
wow , this is awesome stuff to learn and understand ....

Wheeler · Mar 16, 2010

The Jewish leaders were angry with their brother, Jesus, without cause. He was their brother they were to love and listen to him. His words were to be received.but they rejected himhated him. Whoever shall say to his brother Raca shall be in danger of the judgment. Raca means empty, vain, worthless one.

Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

This all goes back to Cain and Abel. By no coincidence Abel means emptiness, vain.obviously Cain thought of his brother as empty, worthless. am I my brothers keeper? This was all foreshadowing of the Jewish leaders who would also hate their brother Jesus and consider his words as emptiness. Cain talked with Abel.Jesus talked to the Pharisees. Cain hated Abel..they hated Jesus.

(Gen 4:8 KJV) And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

Jesus talked to them also and declared to them their sins.and they hated him for it. Their works were works of darkness and Jesus declared this to them. We can now see what the subject of conversation must have been between Cain and Abel.

(John 15:22 KJV) If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

Jesus works were righteous.and so were Abels. Cains works were evil. Whoever hates their brother, hates the Father as well.

24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

Abels works were righteous while Cains were evil. Jesus works were righteous while those of the Jewish leaders were evil.

(1 John 3:12 KJV) Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Whoever hates his brother cannot love God.

(1 John 4:20 KJV) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

The Pharisees and scribes hated Jesus just like the brothers hated Joseph, their own brother. They hated him for his WORDS and refused to have him reign over them.

(Gen 37:8 KJV) And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.

Their father, Israel, loved Joseph the most. He sent him to see whether it be well with his brothers and well with the flocks. This represents the Father sending Jesus to his own brothers to see if they would receive His word..and receive the Fathers sheep into his care.

(Gen 37:13 KJV) And Israel said unto Joseph, Do not thy brethren feed the flock in Shechem? come, and I will send thee unto them. And he said to him, Here am I.
14 And he said to him, Go, I pray thee, see whether it be well with thy brethren, and well with the flocks; and bring me word again. So he sent him out of the vale of Hebron, and he came to Shechem.

But Josephs brothers envied him.they did not want him to reign over themto be the inheritor of their inheritance.

(Gen 37:19 KJV) And they said one to another, Behold, this dreamer cometh.
20 Come now therefore, and let us slay him, and cast him into some pit, and we will say, Some evil beast hath devoured him: and we shall see what will become of his dreams.

God also sent His beloved son to the brethren..that maybe they may have reverence of him when they see him.hear his words. Jesus is the spiritual heir of the Fathers kingdom. the vineyard is His..the sheep are His.

(Luke 20:13 KJV) Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

They were proud and envied Jesus and did not want him to rule over them. The Jewish leaders were the husbandmen.the brothers who hated and envied him. They wanted the inheritance for themselves.they want to keep the vineyard for themselves. The sheep are rightfully the Fathers but they did not want to relinquish their control. They wanted to continue being the leaders that people looked up to.and Jesus threatened their power over the people. They envied him.. all the world has gone after him.

14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.

Abel was a keeper of sheep.and so is Jesus:

(Gen 4:2 KJV) And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

Jesus is the good shepherd and knows and keeps his sheep. He gave his life for his sheep.

(John 10:14 KJV) I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

(John 10:11 KJV) I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

The world hated Jesus.the world being the religious Jews who were supposed to be hearing Moses and the Prophets which were made through Christ. He testified that their works were evil.

(John 7:7 KJV) The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

The world was made by him and the world knew him not..he came unto his own and his own received him not..just as Josephs brothers did not receive him.

(John 1:10 KJV) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

The Light shined in their darkness but they comprehended it not:

(John 1:5 KJV) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

The Jewish leaders loved their works of darkness rather than the light.because their deeds were evil. They loved to be greeted in the marketplaces, they loved the burdens of men they placed on the people.traditions and commandments of men, they loved money, they loved the power and prestige of their positions. They were tillers of the ground.minding earthly things.like Cain. And they were jealous of Jesus their brother.just as Cain must have been of Abel. They hated Jesus for his reproof of their deeds.

(John 3:19 KJV) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

And so in this end of the age, we will find our own brothers who will hate us also.for loving the revealed Truth and reproving their works of darkness.

(1 Th 2:14 KJV) For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

(Eph 5:11 KJV) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

They also shall be blindedby a strong delusion so that they should believe a lie. They will not believe the Truth.that their church works are works of darkness.that their deeds are also evil.their wonderful works in His name are really works of iniquity. And they shall hate those of us their brothers who love the Truth and will reprove their ways. All who shall live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution from our own brothers. They will have filled up their sin.the fullness of the sin of the Amorites.by hating their brothers and speaking against the Truth.

(2 Th 2:11 KJV) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Chickapee · Mar 18, 2010

much to think upon in your last post !

the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world ,

could this be a metaphor for innocent blood being shed / like a sheep to slaughter ? for no good reason but because of hate that fruit of death being evil ?
this verse below is what has made me consider this because of ..

the righteous blood being shed from the start for pleasing God and the evil for covetousness in cains heart , right off the tree of knowledge of good and evil , that to me cain and abel symbolize here both types of fruit ..

Mat 23:35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth,

from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias,

whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Luk 11:51From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

the evil generation that has grown in sin/lust desire in hate , like regenerating the evil out of that tree
this verse also below is proof that abel has faith and cain has no faith
because faith generates righteous works and evil works are children with no faith in God but have turned away because of sin / trespass of Gods will ..

Hbr 11:4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain,

by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts:

and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

This also reminds me of Jesus speaking on the gifts on the altar in Matthew 23 , after reading the whole chapter it explains so much !!!THIS IS THE CRUX OF IT HERE All the blood of the Lamb and its gifts of faith towards God makes one guilty of all the law and prophets ...and yet Jesus is speaking of Himself being the mediater between God and man to the sanctifying every bit of this blood ....against sin
and the forgiveness ! this is a powerful Truth ! wow Jesus declared to everyone who has ears to hear it ..

18And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
its everything from the beginning that's required at the start which is the sin of cain !!!

Oh my JESUS IS giving a great warning here !!!!!

as abels blood even as Christ was the end of it as the new covenant was coming into effect / Hebrews 12 all the innocent blood of righteous dying in faith

the law and prophets / telling the Truth in Love , speaks as a witness against hate / evil by those gifts given from the start as by faith on the altar !! wow

Hbr 12:24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.

Jesus spoke on the Cross forgive them Father for they know not what they do !! pardoning the sin of evil/ hate to repentance all this innocent Blood shed on their heads from the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world . or holding them accountable whom do not repent ...

1Jo 3:12Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Jud 1:11Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
the spots are the mark or sign in the love feasts !
these types hate their brothers without cause because they do not know God or love from their hearts ,,,, the heart is dark and ignorant and void of good and faith and love which is God , no light in them , they gnash their teeth to devour anyone who speaks in faith . hope and love

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. Gen 4:16And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
wandering star /cain was sent away from the Lords presence to wander Nod means =""wandering" 1) land to which Cain fled or wandered after the murder of Abel

Gen 4:15And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

now curious why the Lord not only marked Cain , set a watch/warning over him a sign, signal, proof , but would avenge 7 times anyone who would slay him ?

could this be adding sin to sin ?that fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil , good being the love and the evil being a fruit of hate and this mark would be adding the increase of evil till sin becomes utterly sinful ...... Egypt being the world , you know this is exactly as I was taught so many things you say Wheeler is new , but some things are a double witness to me , this was one of them times Cain went out into the world a rebellious child from the presence of God without council from the Lord .... Isa 30:1¶Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!

lots to think upon here the joy comes in knowing the Lord and His Truth , love the Son shine in our hearts !
thanks C

Chickapee · Mar 18, 2010

that is why Jesus is all in all , the Lamb of God and there remains no more sacrifice for sin !
in the fulness of times / ages Jesus made this open show against the works of darkness / hatred...Hbr 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
who does not believe / faith in moses writtings believes not in My Words !

Hbr 9:26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation

first to put away sin and the second time for salvation wow !Lamb of God !

Jhn 1:29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Jhn 1:36And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
its clicking within my heart and making good thoughts !

Rev 21:22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it

.

Rev 21:23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.

Rev 22:1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Rev 22:3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
please share your thought on this , love to hear them ....

Wheeler · Mar 18, 2010

Hi Chickapee,

Just wanted to say thank you for reading! Im going to be gone for a whilea week or so.this will be my last post until next weekend maybe. I wanted to say more about your postsbut now out of time.

I wanted to correct a mistake I made in a previous post concerning the verse Jesus wept. I said the word wept was in present tense in the Greek.I relied on my interlinear English translation which translated it into present tense English . weeps. The actual Greek is in aorist active indicative.which makes it like Jesus began to weep. Doesnt speak of how long he wept. Sorry about that..its all Greek to me I guess..of which I know nothing about.

By not listening to the message of all the witnesses of the Scriptures, the blood of all of the prophets would be required of them. Because Jesus came to the Jewish leaders with the spoken Word of Truthbut they did not listen to him.which meant they were not listening to Moses and all of the righteous witnesses of the written Word.

(Luke 11:50 KJV) That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

The Jewish leaders were to hear Moses and all of those who heard and believed.and their testimony is written so that they were without excuse. Jesus came to them.one greater than Moses, greater than all of the prophets. He has the wisdom of God.greater Wisdom than Solomon that they were to listen to. If they had really heard Solomons writings, then they would have heard Jesusbecause his witness is greater:

(Luke 11:31 KJV) The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

If they would have heard Jonah.his testimony and preaching, they would have listened to Jesus preaching of the Truth.

32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

Moses testimony was for the things which were to be spoken after..Jesus came to speak the Word of Truth to them. His Word supersedes Moses and the Prophets.

5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

The Jewish leaders were to hear his voice and harden not their hearts. But they did not hear him and so suffered the judgment. Judgment has been on them for the last 2000 years but I feel that their redemption is very near. Their receiving is very nearlife from the dead.

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

the parable of the rich man and Lazarus was more than what most Christians have made it to be. This was spoken to the Pharisees.they were the rich man. Judah had five brothers from the same mother.Leah. The rich man was a veiled reference to the Jewsthose who would not listen to Moses and the Prophets and Jesus and would suffer the judgmentthe place of torment. Lazarus would be the rest of the world.Gentiles who would be helped by God.

(Luke 16:28 KJV) For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

They had Moses and the Prophets to listen to.but they did not hear them.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

The future generations would also not listen to them.even if one went unto them from the dead.in other words, Jesus, who would rise from the dead.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

If they did not hear Moses and the prophets, neither would they listen to Jesus who rose from the dead.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

The sin of the Jewish fathers who did not listen to Jesus were visited upon the children who also hate him. All of the blood of the righteous was required of them.
(Deu 5:9 KJV) Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

They hated Jesus, their brother. And whoever hates their brother is in darknessand the darkness has blinded their eyes.

(1 John 2:11 KJV) But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

But Gods mercy will save them.the blind shall see.

(Rom 11:25 KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Jesus comes again to open up the Word of God to us. He will give us the full, revealed knowledge of the Scriptures. Let us take note of the judgment of the Jewish leaders of Jesus day. Let us hear His voice when He speaksand not harden our hearts to His words.

(Heb 10:26 KJV) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

The Pharisees and the scribes are the examples for us Christians today. They had despised Moses law by not listening to Moses testimony of Jesus (and so did not hear Jesus).for he wrote of him. They died under two or three witnesses.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

They did not believe Moses writings.Moses was a witness against them.

(John 5:45 KJV) Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
.
Jesus was a witness against them. If we go back to Joseph being sent by Israel to his brothers, we see that Joseph was to return word back to his father about how things were going with the brothers and the sheep. Jesus, likewise, did as the literal parable of Joseph. He returned to the Father with what he witnessed.

(Gen 37:14 KJV) And he said to him, Go, I pray thee, see whether it be well with thy brethren, and well with the flocks; and bring me word again. So he sent him out of the vale of Hebron, and he came to Shechem.

Interestingly, Joseph did not find them in Shechem.but in Dothan which means custom, law, two wellsin other words, Jesus found his brothers in the traditions and commandments of men..the customs of men. He found them in a place where they sought honor from one another and did not listen to Moses and the Prophets. This is where they fed the sheep.the poor of the flock.people.

(Gen 37:17 KJV) And the man said, They are departed hence; for I heard them say, Let us go to Dothan. And Joseph went after his brethren, and found them in Dothan.

They saw him afar off..they did not hear Jesusthey did not come near him for the Truth..and they conspired against him.

18 And when they saw him afar off, even before he came near unto them, they conspired against him to slay him.
19 And they said one to another, Behold, this dreamer cometh.
20 Come now therefore, and let us slay him, and cast him into some pit, and we will say, Some evil beast hath devoured him: and we shall see what will become of his dreams.

Chickapee · Mar 18, 2010

well thanks for clearing up for me Wheeler Jesus weeps , or began weeping , I certainly struggle with the greek and Hebrew stuff .. Its not so far apart as past tense wept ..
Gods blessings to you and yours and Holy Spirit dwell with you always
You will be missed , have a safe journey than
and pray for your safe return

much thanks for your courtesy in letting me know , I would have fretted a bit, I confess

it will not be the same without you around CF..............

in Jesus Peace C ...

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