Ralph Northam, Virginia Governor, Admits He Was in Racist Photo

[Speedwell]

He was born in 1959.

My mistake, I thought he was older. But VMI?

 

[Albion]

My mistake, I thought he was older. But VMI?

It was the Eastern Virginia Medical School, not VMI, and he was then about 25 years old.

 

[LoAmmi]

My mistake, I thought he was older. But VMI?

I'd like to think so, but perhaps not.

 

[NotreDame]

This was not a guy in high school, this was someone with a higher education degree. I'm assuming at some point he sat in a class that explained the history of blackface and how hurtful it was to black people in the United States.

If he had robbed a liquor store at that age, should we equally say that it was just a less than wise decision? I assume that even if he learned his lesson and never did it again, people wouldn't be saying it should be overlooked.

As a citizen of Virginia who voted for this man, I want him to resign. I would not vote for him again.

Comparing a liquor store robbery, which involves the threat of violence or force, or the use of view violence or force, towrds another person to take property, which is a crime, a felony, in all fifty states, to this photo, is asinine.

I'm assuming at some point he sat in a class that explained the history of blackface and how hurtful it was to black people in the United States.

May be a false assumption, as I’ve never heard of any such class in my many years in the educational system, including undergrad and graduate school. Indeed, to my knowledge, no educational institution I attended offered any such class. Maybe he didn’t attend any school, college, or unvisity offering any such class.

And a great many of us have done something or said something that was reckless and in poor taste, many years ago. How many skeletons from your youth have you hidden? How many times have you seen someone who wasn’t Caucasian and had a racist thought about them, or experienced fear because of the color of their skin? How many times, being flippant, did you utter a racist slur or phrase? How many times did you cross to the other side of the street as a person who wasn’t Caucasian was walking on your side of the street in your direction?

You’ve offered a poor rebuttal to my position. Comparing the photo to felonious criminal conduct of robbery, referring to possibly nonexistent college class, isn’t a rebuttal.

 

[LoAmmi]

Comparing a liquor store robbery, which involves the threat of violence or force, or the use of view violence or force, towrds another person to take property, which is a crime, a felony, in all fifty states, to this photo, is asinine.

What's the line? That it's a crime? What's the cutoff age? Looks like it isn't 25. 30 maybe? I'm very willing to look at someone who's underage and give them the benefit of the doubt but this was an adult. I get that it isn't the same exactly, but I don't think anybody thought a KKK member and blackface was a good thing even in the 1980s. It was a very poor decision and him being a young 25 year old doesn't excuse it for me.

May be a false assumption, as I’ve never heard of any such class in my many years in the educational system, including undergrad and graduate school. Indeed, to my knowledge, no educational institution I attended offered any such class. Maybe he didn’t attend any school, college, or unvisity offering any such class.

And a great many of us have done something or said something that was reckless and in poor taste, many years ago. How many skeletons from your youth have you hidden? How many times have you seen someone who wasn’t Caucasian and had a racist thought about them, or experienced fear because of the color of their skin? How many times, being flippant, did you utter a racist slur or phrase? How many times did you cross to the other side of the street as a person who wasn’t Caucasian was walking on your side of the street in your direction?

You’ve offered a poor rebuttal to my position. Comparing the photo to felonious criminal conduct of robbery, referring to possibly nonexistent college class, isn’t a rebuttal.

My US history classes covered the history of racism and included things like blackface. Perhaps I was just lucky.

I'd welcome someone to dig through the skeletons in my closet. I don't drink, I don't indulge in drugs, I'd rather stay home and play games than go out and my social media is pretty much blank. I was bullied so badly in school that I kept to myself and only talked to about four people the time I went. I've only been in relationships with two women, one is my wife and the other is a friend. I've never been accused of acting inappropriately toward anybody at work or in school.

Yes, I will freely admit that when confronted with a group of young black men, I've had the occasional spike of fear. Then I let my brain override that because I understand emotions are one of the worst ways to make decisions. I doubt they would have noticed anything.

"He was awkward and weird" is about what you'd come up with.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

How is Roy Moore not forgiven for merely having asked younger women on dates many years ago?

How is Paula Deen not forgiven for the use of a word that was commonplace in her state when she was a youth many years ago?

The Roy thing happen not to long ago. As was about sexual assault. I believe. He's forgotten in my mind. As for Paula Dean. I assume some people have forgiven her by now. But liberals don't seem to be a forgiving group.

How is it that Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan ARE forgiven?

Double Standard

Didn't Jesse Jackson have an affair , that produced a kid. And Louis call for segregation. Then men are considered nothing to care about. They aren't really respected at all.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Wrong. I see from your age that you weren’t even born at that time. I was in my 30s. I can assure you that such behaviour was considered unacceptable...

Wrong. Such behavior was not considered unacceptable at all in 1984. It was commonplace and not considered racist as to be considered racist in those days would require one to seriously suggest that one race was superior to others. The average person did not consider dressing up as a monster ( which would be the KKK costume ) or as a person of a different racial background as inherently racist in 1984. If one looks back at photographs from the early eighties one will find numerous similar pictures and find that there were no societal expressions of outrage associated with them. I was 30 years old in 1984 so I also have quite good memory of those times and the continued physical presence within to the US boot. It has only been since African Americans openly expressed their outrage that society as a whole has been forced to conclude that such things are unacceptable. And that was not the case in 1984.

 

[Albion]

The Roy thing happen not to long ago.

Yes, it was long ago. The flap was recent, but the events themselves were long ago--just as in the Northam case.

As was about sexual assault.

No, it wasn't.

As for Paula Dean. I assume some people have forgiven her by now. But liberals don't seem to be a forgiving group.

The point was that, in some cases, they are.

Didn't Jesse Jackson have an affair , that produced a kid. And Louis call for segregation. Then men are considered nothing to care about.

You are telling me that these men are, or have been, politically insignificant??

 

[NotreDame]

What's the line? That it's a crime? What's the cutoff age? Looks like it isn't 25. 30 maybe? I'm very willing to look at someone who's underage and give them the benefit of the doubt but this was an adult. I get that it isn't the same exactly, but I don't think anybody thought a KKK member and blackface was a good thing even in the 1980s. It was a very poor decision and him being a young 25 year old doesn't excuse it for me.

My US history classes covered the history of racism and included things like blackface. Perhaps I was just lucky.

I'd welcome someone to dig through the skeletons in my closet. I don't drink, I don't indulge in drugs, I'd rather stay home and play games than go out and my social media is pretty much blank. I was bullied so badly in school that I kept to myself and only talked to about four people the time I went. I've only been in relationships with two women, one is my wife and the other is a friend. I've never been accused of acting inappropriately toward anybody at work or in school.

Yes, I will freely admit that when confronted with a group of young black men, I've had the occasional spike of fear. Then I let my brain override that because I understand emotions are one of the worst ways to make decisions. I doubt they would have noticed anything.

"He was awkward and weird" is about what you'd come up with.

What's the line? That it's a crime? What's the cutoff age? Looks like it isn't 25. 30 maybe?

I’m not really interested in a line drawing fallacy dialogue with you. What I can say is comparing what is considered to be a violent felony in many jurisdictions to this photo is asinine. They aren’t parallel for purposes of this discussion. I need not follow you off onto the exit ramp and onto the tangent discussion of whether crimes, or certain crimes, should preclude people from obtaining public office or force people with that history to resign from public office.

It’s satisfactory right now to say, A.) we aren’t discussing criminal behavior and B.) we aren’t discussing violent criminal behavior.

In regards to time, rationally, there may not need to be a “cutoff age,” but intead it is a factor to be taken into consideration, with perhaps how recent or long ago the event occurred determining the weight to be given to the factor itself.

but I don't think anybody thought a KKK member and blackface was a good thing even in the 1980s.

I do not know whether “anybody” so thought that way in 1980s, and I do not really care. The focus is upon him personally, not whether everyone else was doing it or everyone else thought or believed it was okay.

Today, the man has a recent history showing that he isn’t a racist, that the man he is today would not be so reckless, and careless, to do the same thing again.

It was a very poor decision and him being a young 25 year old doesn't excuse it for me.

And it shouldn’t. There’s no excuse. This isn’t about “excusing it for” you. Rather, this is all about that, regardless of age, people will make mistakes, people will say and do stupid things, insensitive things, on account of race, gender, stereotypes of all kinds, not made, however, on account they are racist, sexist, etcetera and there should be room for people to make those mistakes, learn from, change, apologize if necessary, and allowed to continue with their current vocation in life, including elected office.

Yes, I will freely admit that when confronted with a group of young black men, I've had the occasional spike of fear.

A fear based upon an irrational, racial stereotype. You should be tarred, feathered, and asked to resign from any job you currently hold. How dare you not be perfect.

Then I let my brain override that because I understand emotions are one of the worst ways to make decisions. I doubt they would have noticed anything.

You are attempting to mitigate the severity of your racially based stereotyped fear. So is Northam, except with Northam his conduct may not have been on account of any racism, just a poor decision drenched in racist insensitivity.

And, did you just try and argue that your fear based on a racial stereotype was okay since, well, no one knew about it, especially the blacks on the street?

 

[LoAmmi]

A fear based upon an irrational, racial stereotype. You should be tarred, feathered, and asked to resign from any job you currently hold. How dare you not be perfect.



You are attempting to mitigate the severity of your racially based stereotyped fear. So is Northam, except with Northam his conduct may not have been on account of any racism, just a poor decision drenched in racist insensitivity.

And, did you just try and argue that your fear based on a racial stereotype was okay since, well, no one knew about it, especially the blacks on the street?

Now you are the one conflating things, I think. What someone feels like that is not necessarily within their control. What they do with those feelings is within their control. That initial stereotype fear never had me put on blackface.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Yes, it was long ago. The flap was recent, but the events themselves were long ago--just as in the Northam case.


No, it wasn't.


The point was that, in some cases, they are.


You are telling me that these men are, or have been, politically insignificant??

Your bringing things up, that haven't been forgiven .By many liberal. Many forgotten by me. But I'm not going to keep these horrible grudges over people, like many liberals do.


Roy Moore in 2011

In November 2017, nine women came forward with allegations of sexual misconduct, child molestation, and pedophilia against Roy Moore, the Republican nominee in the 2017 United States Senate special election in Alabama and a former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Alabama. Three of the women alleged that he had sexually assaulted them, two during their adolescence (one who was 16 at the time of the alleged incident, when Moore was 31, and one who was 14 at the time of the alleged incident, when Moore was 32).[1] Six other women recalled Moore pursuing romantic relationships, or engaging in inappropriate or unwanted behavior with them, while they were between the ages of 16 and 22. The age of consent in Alabama is 16.

 

[hislegacy]

I'm assuming at some point he sat in a class that explained the history of blackface and how hurtful it was to black people in the United States.

You would assume incorrectly. I was in college in the 80’s
There were no classes like that. It was pretty much a non issue even in the black community.

 

[Allandavid]

I don’t know that this was a deliberate omission. I’m not sure, when he decided to run for public office, he thought,”Quick, check my yearbooks for any potentially offensive material,” or that he should have. It’s not at all clear when he chose to run for public office that he even recalled the existence of this photo in any of his yearbooks. I can recall two pictures of all the pics in my yearbooks.

Perhaps not, but if politics in your country is anything like mine, he would have had a band of ‘handlers’ helping to structure his run through the political minefield. The smart ones would advise “Now Ralph, tell us of anything in your past which is likely to be an embarrassment later...let’s get in front of it now...”

 

[NotreDame]

Now you are the one conflating things, I think. What someone feels like that is not necessarily within their control. What they do with those feelings is within their control. That initial stereotype fear never had me put on blackface.

The fear was in part based on their skin color. That is within your control. You can choose not be be afraid of people, even a group of them, on the basis of their skin color.

The point I’m making, however, is that you shouldn’t necessarily be subjected to the kind of reaction Northam is receiving, and neither should he.

 

[LoAmmi]

The fear was in part based on their skin color. That is within your control. You can choose not be be afraid of people, even a group of them, on the basis of their skin color.

I have trouble seeing due to what looks like static in my vision and get afraid if it's dark where I'm at because I cannot see my surroundings. I'm not choosing to be afraid of that. What I do with that, however, is what I consider important.

The point I’m making, however, is that you shouldn’t necessarily be subjected to the kind of reaction Northam is receiving, and neither should he.

I still think he should resign.

 

[NotreDame]

I have trouble seeing due to what looks like static in my vision and get afraid if it's dark where I'm at because I cannot see my surroundings. I'm not choosing to be afraid of that. What I do with that, however, is what I consider important.

I still think he should resign.

You want to pat yourself on the back for merely having a fear of people based in part in race because you didn’t engage in conduct because of race? This ignores the fact that the fear is based in part on skin color, which is the problem, and you can’t mitigtae that by arguing other conduct is worse.

But I love your philosophy. Northam hires you as his PR guy to address the picture in the yearbook. You craftily tell the press that it was a picture in poor taste and racially insensitive, but since Northam’s actions aren’t as deplorable as being a member of the KKK, or espousing racist views, Northam should receive a reprieve from the demands he resign.

As I said, you do not want to be harshly treated for your fear of a group of guys who are black, at some point in the past, what you acknowledge was a problem, and neither should Northam for his poor exercise of prudent judgment.

What’s ironic is your reasons for Northam to face the political guillotine are applicable to you but you want to escape the same result, Mr. Maximilien Robespierre.

 

[LoAmmi]

You want to pat yourself on the back for merely having a fear of people based in part in race because you didn’t engage in conduct because of race? This ignores the fact that the fear is based in part on skin color, which is the problem, and you can’t mitigtae that by arguing other conduct is worse.

But I love your philosophy. Northam hires you as his PR guy to address the picture in the yearbook. You craftily tell the press that it was a picture in poor taste and racially insensitive, but since Northam’s actions aren’t as deplorable as being a member of the KKK, or espousing racist views, Northam should receive a reprieve from the demands he resign.

As I said, you do not want to be harshly treated for your fear of a group of guys who are black, at some point in the past, what you acknowledge was a problem, and neither should Northam for his poor exercise of prudent judgment.

What’s ironic is your reasons for Northam to face the political guillotine are applicable to you but you want to escape the same result, Mr. Maximilien Robespierre.

I haven't asked for any of that stuff. My argument is that having some emotion over something is not an action and that I judge based upon actions, not emotions. I'm not sure where you are getting any of this other stuff from. Maybe I'm some kind of exception, but I've never been able to control emotions. I control what I do when those emotions happen.

If I were taken to court, my actions are what matter, right? If a prosecutor stood there and said "he thought about robbing the bank!" but I never attempted to or actually robbed the bank, I'd be found not guilty.