Raising the minimum wage?

[bèlla]

I heard FEMA has already stockpiled a lot of body bags for the occasion.

But really, "the strong and fittest" only means those that are needed to develop and maintain the machines. As soon as the machines can do that as well, they can go, too.

I wasn’t speaking of laborers in that remark. ;-)

They’re expendable.

 

[Nithavela]

I wasn’t speaking of laborers in that remark. ;-)

They’re expendable.

Know anyone that isn't expendable?

 

[carlv_52]

that's going in the wrong direction

As the cost of automation gradually comes down we hurry up the changeover by raising the cost of human labor, that's the plan, get people out of work asap

Yes and no. We are at a DECISION point now. Do we allow our fellow humans to have a livable wage and a base level of existence? Or do we all agree that other humans are meaningless cogs in the wheel that if we can replace with machines we should do so so we can start ignoring them?

Because the minute we put ENOUGH people out on the streets our problems do NOT get suddenly better. They get much, much, much worse.

Couple that with the Right's seeming goals to eliminate all social safety nets.

Just have to love those Democrats.

No, you will soon love the Executives. They are making the calculations and unless you are in the C-Suite your job will be under threat. All of us.

 

[carlv_52]

We’re moving in a direction that favors the strong and fittest amongst us. Things are being put in place to ensure the weaker links perish or destroy themselves.

It hasn't taken ME out yet! So there's a good indicator of the bottom....

 

[Nithavela]

Because the minute we put ENOUGH people out on the streets our problems do NOT get suddenly better. They get much, much, much worse.

How about a shallow grave. Would putting enough people into a shallow grave make things better?

 

[bèlla]

It hasn't taken ME out yet! So there's a good indicator of the bottom....

I’m still standing too. But I have little faith in employers. Some are good. But the market is designed to reward owners. Not employees.

It is my belief that self-employment is a better avenue for those willing to invest the time and resources it demands.

 

[Nithavela]

I’m still standing too. But I have little faith in employers. Some are good. But the market is designed to reward owners. Not employees.

It is my belief that self-employment is a better avenue for those willing to invest the time and resources it demands.

Personally I'm self-employed as a copy writer, but there's already AI on the horizon that can write anything on demand when given a few key words. I'm pretty sure that I'll have to reorientate myself before 2030, propably sooner.

 

[Sparagmos]

Many people seem never to realize that you cannot beat the marketplace. If x happens, then the people will sooner or later react by doing y in response. Liberals never see the consequences; they do not deal in such things as consequences because their theories are always pegged to what they think COULD BE or SHOULD BE (as they imagine an ideal world).

Most of the innovators are liberals. Scientists, engineers, researchers, designers and tech folks. Conservatives fear change and tend to resist progress.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

What people seem to forget is that workers CHOOSE to work for minimum wage; no one forces them into these jobs. If they want more money then they need to acquire skills and find a better paying job. The rest of us should not be punished for getting skills and having good paying jobs only to see prices rise across the economy because some lazy nonskilled people want a free handout from the government and raising the minimum wage just lowers the wages of everyone else. Plus, these entitled nonskilled workers after getting their raise will just demand more money in order to compensate for the price increase that their last free hand out caused.

It is called “minimum wage” not “minimum livable wage”. If you want a livable wage, do what the rest of the responsible people have done and get one, don’t beg for handouts, unless it is on a street corner.

 

[bèlla]

Personally I'm self-employed as a copy writer, but there's already AI on the horizon that can write anything on demand when given a few key words. I'm pretty sure that I'll have to reorientate myself before 2030, propably sooner.

Pivots can open new opportunities. Wish you luck.

 

[carlv_52]

Personally I'm self-employed as a copy writer, but there's already AI on the horizon that can write anything on demand when given a few key words. I'm pretty sure that I'll have to reorientate myself before 2030, propably sooner.

I’ve seen some examples of newspapers using AI based sports writing. It’s amazing but deeply troubling

 

[Albion]

Most of the innovators are liberals. Scientists, engineers, researchers, designers and tech folks.

That is beside the point, however. The system (our topic) either permits/encourages them to use their talents and be properly remunerated for it or it does not. If most of them are liberals IN OUR SOCIETY, it is because they are fairly compensated by private companies. That is no recommendation for Socialism!

Conservatives fear change and tend to resist progress.

Conservatives are alert to the fact that change for change sake is not a good policy. What has worked well is worth retaining, even while prudent change is encouraged. Admirers of Socialism (Socialism as a theory only) rarely understand this

 

[Nithavela]

I’ve seen some examples of newspapers using AI based sports writing. It’s amazing but deeply troubling

The possibilities for influencing are endless. Just imagine what you'd get if you coupled that writing AI with a profiling AI that trolls peoples internet usage, facebook and so on. You'd be able to send out completely personalised letters that can convince everyone of everything without any human input besides feeding it an email list.

 

[Sparagmos]

that's going in the wrong direction

As the cost of automation gradually comes down we hurry up the changeover by raising the cost of human labor, that's the plan, get people out of work asap

For manual tasks in retail in a very big chain store the pay rate to begin automating is 11.00 PH which has now been reached and automation is beginning.

Just have to love those Democrats.

Automation is inevitable and we will need to adjust, like we have to all of the wonderful innovations before. We never find ourselves saying it was a mistake to allow modern farm equipment or washing machines to be developed. More automation means humans can work fewer hours and have more hours for family, travel, and creative endeavors. It means fewer people will have to perform repetitive, dirty, and meaningless work. Raising wages is key as we transition. Ultimately, we as a society will decide who benefits from automation- the very wealthy owners, or all of us. In the industries where I represent workers, we will be expecting the owners who profit from automation to help the affected workers transition into other more meaningful work, and also have automation relieve overwork and work that causes injury.

 

[Nithavela]

Automation is inevitable and we will need to adjust, like we have to all of the wonderful innovations before. We never find ourselves saying it was a mistake to allow modern farm equipment or washing machines to be developed. More automation means humans can work fewer hours and have more hours for family, travel, and creative endeavors. It means fewer people will have to perform repetitive, dirty, and meaningless work. Raising wages is key as we transition. Ultimately, we as a society will decide who benefits from automation- the very wealthy owners, or all of us. In the industries where I represent workers, we will be expecting the owners who profit from automation to help the affected workers transition into other more meaningful work, and also have automation relieve overwork and work that causes injury.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that only the very wealthy will profit.

 

[Speedwell]

Automation is inevitable and we will need to adjust, like we have to all of the wonderful innovations before. We never find ourselves saying it was a mistake to allow modern farm equipment or washing machines to be developed. More automation means humans can work fewer hours and have more hours for family, travel, and creative endeavors. It means fewer people will have to perform repetitive, dirty, and meaningless work. Raising wages is key as we transition. Ultimately, we as a society will decide who benefits from automation- the very wealthy owners, or all of us. In the industries where I represent workers, we will be expecting the owners who profit from automation to help the affected workers transition into other more meaningful work, and also have automation relieve overwork and work that causes injury.

But in the end we will have to face the issue of how to distribute the wealth produced by our society when the labor market is no longer adequate to the task.

 

[Sparagmos]

I'd bet my bottom dollar that only the very wealthy will profit.

Well, I don’t blame you for that prediction but as a labor organizer I will work until I die to keep that from being the case. We’ve done it before, that’s why we have the 8 hour workday and workplace protections.

 

[Sparagmos]

But in the end we will have to face the issue of how to distribute the wealth produced by our society when the labor market is no longer adequate to the task.

Yes, absolutely. That is the key.

 

[Sparagmos]

That is beside the point, however. The system (our topic) either permits/encourages them to use their talents and be properly remunerated for it or it does not. If most of them are liberals IN OUR SOCIETY, it is because they are fairly compensated by private companies. That is no recommendation for Socialism!

It’s up to us, we the people to decide what kind of system we will have. I’m not sure what your obsession with socialism on this thread is about...

Conservatives are alert to the fact that change for change sake is not a good policy. What has worked well is worth retaining, even while prudent change is encouraged. Admirers of Socialism (Socialism as a theory only) rarely understand this

Honestly, I don’t know anyone who is promoting economic change for change’s sake. We all agree our system needs to be better and people have various ideas about what kind of change would be good.

 

[Albion]

It’s up to us, we the people to decide what kind of system we will have. I’m not sure what your obsession with socialism on this thread is about...

1. The discussion was not about our democratic processes. It was about the nature of Socialism.

2. Obsessed? you've posted as much on this subject as I.