Rainbows!

[juvenissun]

No one said anything about ancient climate conditions. We were talking about rainbows. What are you proposing exactly?

Are we talk about the rainbow before Noah's time?

 

[The Nihilist]

Are we talk about the rainbow before Noah's time?

What are you suggesting was different?

 

[neutralino7]

Are we talk about the rainbow before Noah's time?

lol are you a teacher at a school? You sound like you are using several devices to try to get people to think without giving the answer. But, I am going to give the answer.. sorry


Basically, the earth was like a rainforest before Noah's flood. There was no need for rain because there was a thick (thicker than modern day) mist in the atmosphere.

"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground." (Genesis 2:4-6.)

Here, the story of the creation of man is being told after the fifth day creation: the generationsbeginning with the creation of Adam, and ending with the descent of the Holy City at the end of Revelations. It begins by saying God did not cause it to rain upon the earth, since He had not made man yet, but He made a mist to water and nourish the earth. Remember, God created this firmament on the second day:

"Then God said, 'Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.' Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day." (Genesis 1:6-8).

Here, the word Heaven is "shamayim" in Hebrew, which means lofty, or expanse. And, in this case implies, it implies the visible arch above everything - the sky (or firm atmosphere.) For comparison, the moon has no heaven because it has no firm atmosphere. The expanse above the surface of the moon is not unique to the moon - it is the universe (space). The sky when it was created was - was wedged between waters above, and waters below (land had not yet been created.) The sky was capped by a dense earth-sized circle of mist, instead of space (the universe) This water above is the mist spoken of in Genesis 2.


Keep in mind that this circle of water encompassing the earth did not mean it didn't rain. We know this intuitively and empirically (again, see the Rain Forest of S. America.) But, in order to see a rainbow, the angle of light rays shined on the mini prisms we call raindrops, and the index of refraction need to be precise in order for the light to split into its respective colors. The density of the mist would be too high to see a rainbow ever - not enough sunlight could penetrate the mist to reach the Heaven and cause refraction of light below the mist.

However, this all changes when God drops the mist, and causes it to literally dissolve away via global flood. But, it wasn't just the firmament that caused the flood; the fountains of waters beneath the earth (oceans, lakes, rivers, seas, etc.) contributed to the flood. In other words: seismicity and meteorology.

"In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened."

The windows of heaven being open is a metaphor (literary device) illustrating that the firmament was removed, and the heaven of the universe was visible. It is tantamount to removing the shudders to reveal the outside of the house. In this case, the shudder is the circle of mist around the earth, and the outside of the house is the universe.

Now, the spiritual implication of God giving the rainbow as a sign of His covenant with Noah (not to destroy the earth with water) comes with scientific implications: The rainbow is a reminder that God dropped the water canopy over earth and caused it to rain/flood as judgment, but just as that canopy can "never" drop like that anymore (because it doesn't exist anymore,) so also will Noah be reminded that God will never destroy the earth in that way anymore. Therefore, everytime a rainbow is seen, it should be a reminder that the earth didn't always have the ability to show a rainbow, and at one time the earth's firmament of Heaven (the sky) was capped by water.

 

[The Nihilist]

lol are you a teacher at a school? You sound like you are using several devices to try to get people to think without giving the answer. But, I am going to give the answer.. sorry


Basically, the earth was like a rainforest before Noah's flood. There was no need for rain because there was a thick (thicker than modern day) mist in the atmosphere.

"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground." (Genesis 2:4-6.)

Here, the story of the creation of man is being told after the fifth day creation: the generationsbeginning with the creation of Adam, and ending with the descent of the Holy City at the end of Revelations. It begins by saying God did not cause it to rain upon the earth, since He had not made man yet, but He made a mist to water and nourish the earth. Remember, God created this firmament on the second day:

"Then God said, 'Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.' Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day." (Genesis 1:6-8).

Here, the word Heaven is "shamayim" in Hebrew, which means lofty, or expanse. And, in this case implies, it implies the visible arch above everything - the sky (or firm atmosphere.) For comparison, the moon has no heaven because it has no firm atmosphere. The expanse above the surface of the moon is not unique to the moon - it is the universe (space). The sky when it was created was - was wedged between waters above, and waters below (land had not yet been created.) The sky was capped by a dense earth-sized circle of mist, instead of space (the universe) This water above is the mist spoken of in Genesis 2.


Keep in mind that this circle of water encompassing the earth did not mean it didn't rain. We know this intuitively and empirically (again, see the Rain Forest of S. America.) But, in order to see a rainbow, the angle of light rays shined on the mini prisms we call light, and the index of refraction need to be precise in order for the light to split into its respective colors. The density of the mist would be too high to see a rainbow ever - not enough sunlight could penetrate the mist to reach the Heaven and cause refraction of light below the mist.

However, this all changes when God drops the mist, and causes it to literally dissolve away via global flood. But, it wasn't just the firmament that caused the flood; the fountains of waters beneath the earth (oceans, lakes, rivers, seas, etc.) contributed to the flood. In other words: seismicity and meteorology.

"In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened."

The windows of heaven being open is a metaphor (literary device) illustrating that the firmament was removed, and the heaven of the universe was visible. It is tantamount to removing the shudders to reveal the outside of the house. In this case, the shudder is the circle of mist around the earth, and the outside of the house is the universe.

Now, the spiritual implication of God giving the rainbow as a sign of His covenant with Noah (not to destroy the earth with water) comes with scientific implications: The rainbow is a reminder that God dropped the water canopy over earth and caused it to rain/flood as judgment, but just as that canopy can "never" drop like that anymore (because it doesn't exist anymore,) so also will Noah be reminded that God will never destroy the earth in that way anymore. Therefore, everytime a rainbow is seen, it should be a reminder that the earth didn't always have the ability to show a rainbow, and at one time the earth's firmament of Heaven (the sky) was capped by water.

Wow, that's a lot of words! I'd sure like to sit here and give you a line by line critique of your explanation, but I won't because your explanation is stupid and doesn't merit the time or energy!

 

[juvenissun]

What are you suggesting was different?

It is recorded that during the flooding, it rained 40 days and 40 nights (all over the earth). I guess you could imagine the difference of climate before this happened.

 

[juvenissun]

lol are you a teacher at a school? You sound like you are using several devices to try to get people to think without giving the answer. But, I am going to give the answer.. sorry

I never give out all the answers to any student on any question. They get what they asked for, no more and no less.

 

[neutralino7]

Wow, that's a lot of words! I'd sure like to sit here and give you a line by line critique of your explanation, but I won't because your explanation is stupid and doesn't merit the time or energy!

Well I wouldn't expect any more from someone named "The Nihilist." So, no hard feelings .

 

[neutralino7]

I never give out all the answers to any student on any question. They get what they asked for, no more and no less.

I see. Well, you can lead a horse to water, right?


As an on-looker, I appreciate your "pulling" and challenging people to think by directing their thought processes. If you are a teacher, we need more like you because most people do not know how to think.

 

[The Nihilist]

It is recorded that during the flooding, it rained 40 days and 40 nights (all over the earth). I guess you could imagine the difference of climate before this happened.

I'm not a climatologist, so I can't, actually. Why don't you tell me why you think rain and sunlight don't make rainbows?

 

[The Nihilist]

If you are a teacher, we need more like you because most people do not know how to think.

Odd remark from an apparent young earth creationist.

 

[neutralino7]

Odd remark from an apparent young earth creationist.

The problem with assuming: you make an... well you know the saying.


So many assumptions on your part. I am not a young earth creationist. The bible says:

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. (Genesis 1:1)


This is the first verse of the bible, before time was designated in Genesis 1:3-5

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Genesis 1:3-5)

The earth, in my opinion, is older than time itself. That is according to the bible. Before God designated what a day was, He created the earth. Before He created light and darkness, the earth was created. According to science, light is ~14 billion years old. Does that sound young to you? If you don't care, or are skeptical of how old light is, I do understand Mr. Nihilist.

Take care .

 

[The Nihilist]

The earth, in my opinion, is older than time itself. That is according to the bible

Well, the bible is wrong. Read about it if you feel like it Age of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[neutralino7]

Well, the bible is wrong. Read about it if you feel like it Age of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah yes, the bible is wrong because science says it is wrong, just like Ayurveda doesn't work because "modern" medicine hasn't proven it to work, or because ice-pick lobotomies work(ed) because neuro-scientists like Walter Freeman said it worked. Classic.

Ok, well Mr. Nihilist I find it intersting you...find interest... in certain parts of a post but not others. I would have expected a sense of continuity of antipathy from you, rejecting the use of time and energy to respond on your behalf. Nevertheless, as marginally interesting as some of the posts I post are to you, I agree to disagree.

Take care

 

[juvenissun]

I'm not a climatologist, so I can't, actually. Why don't you tell me why you think rain and sunlight don't make rainbows?

Of course you can think about it and you do not have to be a climatologist. It is middle school physics.

In order to keep a lot of water in the air, the air temperature must be high. Today, the earth is at its coolest temperature in the past 120 million years. Can you imagine how would the atmosphere feel to you when the mean annual temperature of the earth is 15°C higher than now? How much water could be stored in the air? Would the air be foggy or clear most of the time?

Just a few things to think about on the conditions described in the Bible. I don't know the answer. You may not know it either. But, that is how much we know about the history of rainbow on the earth.

 

[Vanderhaust]

The earth, in my opinion, is older than time itself. That is according to the bible. Before God designated what a day was, He created the earth. Before He created light and darkness, the earth was created. According to science, light is ~14 billion years old. Does that sound young to you? If you don't care, or are skeptical of how old light is, I do understand Mr. Nihilist.

Firstly, the earth is not older than time, that is only your opinion and can hardly be backed by the bible or any other source of information. Just because, acording to Genesis, the earth was created before light and before God declared what a day is doesn't automatically infer that time didn't exist.

With that kind of thinking there are a lot of things that couldn't be because God didn't declare them in the bible.

Just to clarify on what the accepted scientific theory is; it's that the earth is about 4.5 billion years old the universe is about 14.5 billion years old. I thought that if you wanted to try and use science to support your argument that you may want to get your facts striaght.

 

[The Nihilist]

Of course you can think about it and you do not have to be a climatologist. It is middle school physics.

In order to keep a lot of water in the air, the air temperature must be high. Today, the earth is at its coolest temperature in the past 120 million years. Can you imagine how would the atmosphere feel to you when the mean annual temperature of the earth is 15°C higher than now? How much water could be stored in the air? Would the air be foggy or clear most of the time?

Just a few things to think about on the conditions described in the Bible. I don't know the answer. You may not know it either. But, that is how much we know about the history of rainbow on the earth.

Unsourced claims* and pretending that things like weather and rainbows are mysterious isn't quite the extraordinary evidence you're going to need to convince anyone that a pretty mundane phenomenon didn't ever occur until 6,000 years ago.
Of course, that brings up an interesting point: there's absolutely no evidence for the flood anywhere in any record of any kind, excluding the bible, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and a handful of other mythical sources. Science has spent the last, I don't know, 2 or 300 years debunking ideas about the flood. Why turn to it and pretend that it will help you? Following that line of reasoning can only undo exactly what you're trying to show.

*Incorrect claims at that.

 

[juvenissun]

Unsourced claims* and pretending that things like weather and rainbows are mysterious isn't quite the extraordinary evidence you're going to need to convince anyone that a pretty mundane phenomenon didn't ever occur until 6,000 years ago.
Of course, that brings up an interesting point: there's absolutely no evidence for the flood anywhere in any record of any kind, excluding the bible, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and a handful of other mythical sources. Science has spent the last, I don't know, 2 or 300 years debunking ideas about the flood. Why turn to it and pretend that it will help you? Following that line of reasoning can only undo exactly what you're trying to show.

*Incorrect claims at that.

Who said 6000 years? You said that? Did I talk about millions of years?

 

[The Nihilist]

Who said 6000 years? You said that? Did I talk about millions of years?

For the flood?

 

[juvenissun]

For the flood?

Possible.

 

[The Nihilist]

Possible.

Could you elaborate? Could you also comment on why you're bothering with sciencey sounding explanations?