Rain and The Creation

[Null-Geodesic]

And the reason God inspired His word to be written in incorrect order was???? Come on, you are Christian right? Please give me your Biblical view....cause u might as well rip Genesis our of your Bible otherwise.

It's Jewish mythology pure and simple. I don't think I've read Genesis in 30 years. You're right though, I might as well rip it out. God did not write Genesis, a bunch of nomadic goatherders some 3000 years ago did. End of story as far as I am concerned.

 

[Andy D]

I believe the bible to be the infallible Word of God from
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
to
"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." (Revelation 22:21)

If parts of Genesis are myths then other parts of the bible could also qualify as not being true. If that's the case then I could also doubt Jesus's resurection as being true and simply being a story concocted by some that said they saw Him to validate their witness to an unbelieving public. The parting of the Red Sea could be classified as myth also along with just about every other "story" in the bible.

If I can not believe the bible then I may as well throw it away because it's of no use to me and my faith in Christ is unfounded based only on myths and fairy tales.

Not all, but some TE's I have debated with have already gone further than even the flood being allegorical by saying the Red Sea crossing is myth and in fact they seem to think majority of the OT is myth. Am sure the archeologists would love those claims. Plenty of artifacts would show that much of the Old Testament is recording actual history. If they dig deep enough into this field you might find some interesting stuff. I might just dig there myself.

But point is, where do we stop believing it is just myth...?? It comes down to who we perceive the Bible. I also believe it to be infallible. I dont think it comes down to reading it literally or not...I think it starts with what you believe the Bible to be?

May God bless you.

*Nice post*

 

[theFijian]

But still it is strange that the rainbow came as a sign after the flood...

Not really, God appointed it as a sign, it wasn't the first ever rainbow.

And also that the creation account in Genesis isnt even in the correct order for evolution to occur anyhow.

So does evolution contradict the order in Gen 1 or in Gen 2? Because the order in Gen 1 contradicts Gen 2.

 

[Andy D]

It's Jewish mythology pure and simple. I don't think I've read Genesis in 30 years. You're right though, I might as well rip it out. God did not write Genesis, a bunch of nomadic goatherders some 3000 years ago did. End of story as far as I am concerned.

And you are a human being just like those 'goatherders'. No one said God directly wrote Genesis. We state it is the inspired word of God. If what God desired to inspire is just treated like that in your mind, fine, at least I know the ground you stand on.

 

[Andy D]

So does evolution contradict the order in Gen 1 or in Gen 2? Because the order in Gen 1 contradicts Gen 2.

Actually it doesnt contradict it. It just takes a correct understanding of how it was meant to be read. It isnt hard. I see it cearly when i learned. I realised that it is like so many so called contradictions in the Bible. It is more a lack of understanding then anything else. The contradictions between Genesis 1 and 2 was sorted out a long time ago but some people prefer not to accept it.

 

[theFijian]

Actually it doesnt contradict it. It just takes a correct understanding of how it was meant to be read. It isnt hard. I see it cearly when i learned. I realised that it is like so many so called contradictions in the Bible. It is more a lack of understanding then anything else. The contradictions between Genesis 1 and 2 was sorted out a long time ago but some people prefer not to accept it.

So humour me, what's the correct understanding?

 

[Null-Geodesic]

Actually it doesnt contradict it. It just takes a correct understanding of how it was meant to be read. It isnt hard

LOL the irony in your post is palpable. So you have a corect understanding but some 1.6 billion other Christians have it wrong. Puleeeeeeeeeez. Gen 1 and Gen 2 do contradict. It's only revisionist apologetics from fundamentalist quacks that can contort themselves away from this.

 

[PotLuck]

|v16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
|v17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(NewT:2 Timothy 3:16-17)

God inspired those who penned the books of the bible.

I'm sorry but I hadn't thought I'd be trying to validate the bible in a "christian only" forum. I'll be using the same arguments I use on any other non-believing (secular) forum and I'm just not in the mood to go through all that again. Been there, done that. Many times.

 

[Andy D]

So humour me, what's the correct understanding?

Well as someone has just stated in the post before this, that some quacks using apologetics argue this away, I can give you a link to read but unless you truly want to see the big picture and not just pick at what appears to be contradictions then it isnt any point. I would like to know how the person who posted before this one knew there were 1.6 billion Christians on this earth????? Only God knows the figures and MANY, YES MANY will call themselves Christians and will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The Bible does state that too. Many will even cast out demons in His name and not enter the kingdom.

Many will come up with so called contradictions in the Bible because they dont understand it. The Bible obviously, as I am sure we can all agree, be read or interpreted so many different ways that it isnt funny. Some choose to interpret it one way and it seems to fit perfect...and another group will interpret it another way and it seems to fit perfect. We all love to make sure it fits our beliefs...I admit that. But in the search for truth, we must evaluate them all and realise that if we believe the Word of God to be infallible...then it couldnt be contradicting itself. It only took a bit of deeper studying to work it out in this case.

I can quote Answers in Genesis links here as a TE can quote some evolution link and we will disagree regardless. I will give you a link or two if you like...here goes

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i4/genesis.asp
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-ordercreation.html
http://www.tektonics.org/tekton_05_03_03.html
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i4/name.asp

 

[theFijian]

If parts of Genesis are myths then other parts of the bible could also qualify as not being true. If that's the case then I could also doubt Jesus's resurrection as being true and simply being a story concocted by some that said they saw Him to validate their witness to an unbelieving public. The parting of the Red Sea could be classified as myth also along with just about every other "story" in the bible.

The genre of the gospels determines them to be taken as historical fact, you don't have to worry about the story of Christ's resurrection being a concocted story. Gen 1&2 are clearly written figuratively. You still seem to be confusing myth with falsehood. Was there are real 'Good Samaritan' who was left to die at the roadside by several passing jewish priests? Or was Christ using a made up story to convey a spiritual truth?

If I can not believe the bible then I may as well throw it away because it's of no use to me and my faith in Christ is unfounded based only on myths and fairy tales.

True, but it helps if you know how to read it.

 

[Andy D]

The genre of the gospels determines them to be taken as historical fact, you don't have to worry about the story of Christ's resurrection being a concocted story. Gen 1&2 are clearly written figuratively. You still seem to be confusing myth with falsehood. Was there are real 'Good Samaritan' who was left to die at the roadside by several passing jewish priests? Or was Christ using a made up story to convey a spiritual truth?

And I think there are many good samaritans in this world

 

[Null-Geodesic]

I would like to know how the person who posted before this one knew there were 1.6 billion Christians on this earth?????

I didn't say that. There are approx. some 2 billion Christians in the world. Of these the Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican churches represent some 1.6-1.7 billion. These churches do not put forward Genesis as literal truth. So your literalist interpretation (yes interpretation) is a minority viewpoint in Christianity.

Since I see you are resorting to AIG and tektonics links you are reinforcing your minority status with quack apologetics.

Funny how the Catholic church with way more scholarship and academic reputation behind it reject the literalist nonsense you see on AIG type links written by a few unqualified shysters.

 

[Andy D]

I didn't say that. There are approx. some 2 billion Christians in the world. Of these the Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican churches represent some 1.6-1.7 billion. These churches do not put forward Genesis as literal truth. So your literalist interpretation (yes interpretation) is a minority viewpoint in Christianity.

Since I see you are resorting to AIG and tektonics links you are reinforcing your minority status with quack apologetics.

Funny how the Catholic church with way more scholarship and academic reputation behind it reject the literalist nonsense you see on AIG type links written by a few unqualified shysters.
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I dont mean to offend but I disagree 100% on the Catholic church having way more scholarship and academic reputation behind it as far as the Bible is concerned. This as you can see is a matter of opinion and goes deeper than scholarship and academics. It goes to our personal walk with Christ.

 

[theFijian]

The genre of the gospels determines them to be taken as historical fact, you don't have to worry about the story of Christ's resurrection being a concocted story. Gen 1&2 are clearly written figuratively. You still seem to be confusing myth with falsehood. Was there are real 'Good Samaritan' who was left to die at the roadside by several passing jewish priests? Or was Christ using a made up story to convey a spiritual truth?

And I think there are many good samaritans in this world

Neat sidestep, fancy answering the question.

 

[Null-Geodesic]

I dont mean to offend but I disagree 100% on the Catholic church having way more scholarship and academic reputation behind it as far as the Bible is concerned. This as you can see is a matter of opinion and goes deeper than scholarship and academics. It goes to our personal walk with Christ.

Catholic church = world renowned academic institutions
Baptists & other American fundamentalists = bible college degree mills.

Mmmmmmmmm.

 

[Andy D]

Neat sidestep, fancy answering the question.

And the question was not aimed at me but you fail to have been given a sense of humor.

 

[Andy D]

Catholic church = world renowned academic institutions
Baptists & other American fundamentalists = bible college degree mills.

Mmmmmmmmm.

Again, that is your opinion and totally disagrees with mine. I have a problem with agreeing with the roman catholic church on many of their doctrine.

 

[Null-Geodesic]

Again, that is your opinion and totally disagrees with mine. I have a problem with agreeing with the roman catholic church on many of their doctrine.

You can disagree with doctrine but you cannot disagree with the academic reputation of their respective institutions. Try getting hired with a Southern State Bible U. degree versus a Georgetown or Boston College degree here in the States. Unless you're being hired as a pastor at the local Baptist church it's a no contest.

 

[Andy D]

Reputation that is in man's eyes and not God's. The Bible doesnt tell us to have a better reputation as far as scholars and academics go.

 

[Null-Geodesic]

The Bible doesnt tell us to have a better reputation as far as scholars and academics go.

The Bible also doesn't state whether to buy a Ford or a Honda either. I doubt you truly use the Bible for every decision in life be it car purchase or choice of academics. Or at least I hope not.