• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Radioactive dating

Paul of Eugene OR

Finally Old Enough
Site Supporter
May 3, 2014
6,373
1,858
✟301,032.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Well, I think he was:) At least the Jews claim that in their traditions.

"
Abraham was the tenth generation removed from Noah, being a direct descendant of Shem, (Noah's son), the father of all the "Semitic" peoples. When Abraham was born, Shem was 390 years Old, and his father Noah was 892 years old, Abraham was 58 years old when Noah died, and 110 years old when Shem died. These are important facts, for, as we shall see later, Abraham spent many years in the house of Noah and Sherri, and received instruction from them. Thus he learned all the details about the Flood from the very men who built the Ark and survived the Flood. (Noah knew Methuselah for many hundreds of years, who in turn knew Adam for many hundreds of years, which means that Abraham received first hand information about everything that happened since the very first day of Creation!).

Terah, Abraham's father, was the chief officer or minister of the first king mentioned in the Torah, the mighty King Nimrod of Babylon (also known by its former name, Shinear, and the land of the Chaldees). Terah was an idol worshipper, like his king, and their chief god was the Sun.

We have already told you what a close brush with death Abraham had on the very night of his birth. For Nimrod's stargazers told the king that Terah's newly-bom son would one day be a danger to his throne. Nimrod ordered Terah to send him the baby, to be put to death. Terah, however, outwitted the king. Instead of sending his real son to the king, be sent the baby of a slave who was born on the same night as Abraham, and Nimrod killed the baby with his own hands, believing that he was now safe from the threat.

The baby Abraham, with his mother and nurse, were hidden in a cave for ten years.

At the age of three years, Abraham knew that it was silly to worship the sun or any other idol, but that there was a great G-d, who created the sun and the moon, and the whole world, who, though Himself unseen, sees everything and knows everything, and is the real King of the World, more powerful than Nimrod. And since that time, Abraham's faith in G-d grew stronger every day.

At the age of ten, Abraham decided to leave the cave and to go to old Noah and Shem, of whom his mother had told him many wonderful stories. Unknown to anybody, Abraham made his way from the low country to the mountainous region of Ararat in the land of Kedem, where Noah and his family lived. He was made welcome by old Noah and Shem, who taught him all they knew about G-d and the ways of G-d.

Abraham stayed there for nearly 39 years, until the year 1997. It was at the end of this period, when he was 48 years old, while still at Noah's house, that Abraham heard about the world-shattering event of the Tower of Babel, which took place in the land of Shinear, where Nimrod reigned supreme. Nimrod and his people wanted to build a tower that would reach up to heaven, so that they might establish their reign upon the heaven as well as on the earth. It was the height of arrogance and defiance of men against G-d, and it led to confusion and to their dispersal and division into seventy tongues and nations. Abraham decided that it was high time for him to go out and teach them the truth about G-d, and about the falsehood and worthlessness of the idols. He knew that in defying Nimrod, and even his own father, he would be risking his life, for Nimrod had proclaimed himself god and demanded that all the people worship him.

At the age of fifty (in the year 1998) Abraham returned to his father's house in Babylon.

Terah was a high priest of the idol worshippers. He had twelve chief gods, one for each month of the year, and other idols. In fact, there was a workshop in Terah's house, where idols of wood, stone, silver and gold were made. People came to offer sacrifices to these idols, or to buy them, and Terah had a thriving business. Terah appointed Abraham to be the salesman and take charge of the business. How "well" he conducted the business, we have already told you.

Abraham's activities, in words and deeds, aroused Nimrod's anger. Both Abraham and his father were ordered to appear before the king. Here the king's stargazers at once recognized Abraham as the one about whom they had warned the king. Terah was taken to task for deceiving the king, and he put the blame on his older son Haran, who was 32 years older than Abraham. Haran had secretly followed Abraham, but he was not quite sure whether he was wise in doing so. He thought that he would come out openly on Abraham's side, if and when Abraham would come out victorious. Nimrod ordered that Abraham be thrown into a burning furnace.

When Abraham came out unharmed, Haran declared himself on Abraham's side and chose to be likewise thrown into the furnace, and he was burnt to death. Abraham, on the other band, whom G-d" had so wonderfully saved from the fire, was acclaimed by all the people, and they were ready to worship him. But Abraham told them to worship G-d, who had saved him from the burning furnace, and that he himself was nothing but a human being. Nimrod was greatly afraid of Abraham. He gave him many precious gifts, among them Eliezer, a member of the king's household, who became Abraham's trusted servant and friend.

Abraham, and his remaining brother Nahor, married two sisters, their nieces, the daughters of their brother Haran. Nahor married Milkah, and Abraham married Yiskah, better known as Sarai, (later-Sarah).

Two years later, Nimrod had a strange dream and once again his counsellors interpreted it to mean that as long as Abraham lived, his kingdom would be in danger. Nimrod, who had been worried about Abraham all the time, decided to try again to kill him, and sent men to capture him. Fortunately, Eliezer learned of the plot and informed Abraham in good time. Abraham, with his band of followers, numbering over 300, fled to Noah. About a month later, his father Terah came to visit him there. Abraham persuaded him to give up his idolatry. He pointed out to him, moreover, that his life was also in danger, for Nimrod would not spare him. So Terah gave up his high position at Nimrod's court, and decided to go with Abraham to the land of Canaan, where they would be free to worship G-d, out of reach of Nimrod.

Thus Terah, his son Abraham and his wife Sarai, and Lot, Haran's son, and all their household left Ur of the Chaldees in Babylon and set out for Canaan. On the way they came to Charan, where Nahor lived, found it a good place, and stayed there.

Three years later, when Abraham was 55 years old, G-d appeared to Abraham and told him to take his wife and household and go on to Canaan. This Abraham did, and be stayed there 15 years. At this time, when Abraham was 70 years old, G‑d made a covenant with him, and soon afterwards Abraham returned to Charan, where he stayed for five years. Then, once again G-d appeared to Abraham and told him to leave his father's home and native land for good, and go to the land of Canaan. This time, Lot his nephew (and brother-in-law) accompanied him. Terah died in Charan, and Nahor remained there with his family.

Thus, at the age of 75, Abraham came to dwell in the land of Canaan, the land which G-d had promised him to be the chosen land for his children as an everlasting inheritance."

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/112063/jewish/Abrahams-Early-Life.htm

Sheer unsubstantiated mythology.
 
Upvote 0

mickiio

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2012
514
246
✟24,417.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Are Christians proud or ashamed of dad?
Proud. He's backing up his Christian beliefs in a post Christian era. Right or wrong, it's all supposition, as is the opposition that believes in macroevolution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AV1611VET
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Asnwer the question.

Do we have to prove a defendant is guilty before using DNA fingerprinting?
Rather than talk off topic madness that has no application to what the nature was like, there is one issue you must face directly. Prove the radioactive decay existed in the past.

That is not done by offering up some drawing of a line that you cannot explain in your own words. If you want to spam a pic of a line, explain to us what the FIRST point on that line is derived from, or based on.
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
Rather than talk off topic madness that has no application to what the nature was like, there is one issue you must face directly. Prove the radioactive decay existed in the past.

That is not done by offering up some drawing of a line that you cannot explain in your own words. If you want to spam a pic of a line, explain to us what the FIRST point on that line is derived from, or based on.

Answer the question.

Do we have to prove a defendant is guilty before we can use DNA fingerprinting?

I want to know if you understand what evidence is.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Answer the question.

Do we have to prove a defendant is guilty before we can use DNA fingerprinting?

I want to know if you understand what evidence is.
Name a defendant that is pre flood and your little strawman parable can rank worthiness to merit the few seconds it would take to destroy it. Focus on the topic and time and issues.
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
Name a defendant that is pre flood and your little strawman parable can rank worthiness to merit the few seconds it would take to destroy it. Focus on the topic and time and issues.

Answer the question.

Do we have to prove a defendant is guilty before we can use DNA fingerprinting?
 
Upvote 0

mickiio

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2012
514
246
✟24,417.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
It is a claim. Stories in books are not evidence.
There is plenty of evidence in and out of scripture. You make fun of us for our science, and your theory goes against the Laws of Physics, Second Law of Thermodynamics (yes, I am going to use that again), Laws of Biogenetics and against probabilities. Now get on topic or write your own.
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
There is plenty of evidence in and out of scripture.

Where is the evidence?

You make fun of us for our science, and your theory goes against the Laws of Physics, Second Law of Thermodynamics (yes, I am going to use that again), Laws of Biogenetics and against probabilities. Now get on topic or write your own.

You haven't shown how evolution breaks any of these laws. You are just making it up. Quite frankly, I doubt you even know what the 2nd law of thermodynamics is, or how to apply it. Do you know how enthalpy is measure? Do you know how to define a thermodynamic system?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dr GS Hurd
Upvote 0

mickiio

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2012
514
246
✟24,417.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Where is the evidence?
Do you have an hour? You have a whole thread on it. http://www.christianforums.com/threads/what-is-the-positive-evidence-for-creationism.7909671/
You haven't shown how evolution breaks any of these laws. You are just making it up. Quite frankly, I doubt you even know what the 2nd law of thermodynamics is, or how to apply it. Do you know how enthalpy is measure? Do you know how to define a thermodynamic system?
Yes I do. Do you?



Broken laws:
Law of Biogenetics - The molecules to man evolution, you must believe that life (at least once) spontaneously formed from non-living chemicals. This is inconsistent with biogenetics (life from life).

Laws of Physics
The Anthropic Principle - The Laws of Physics are fine tuned in just the right way so that life is possible. The constants and derivative laws of physics would come out in just the right way, so that chemistry would work in the right way, so that the elements and compounds would have the right properties, so that life would be possible. It's an amazing complex challenge. To say it is all by chance is irresponsible, not to mention bad science.
The Law of Cause and Effect - Nothing happens by chance or outside the Universal Laws. Every Action has a reaction or consequence. Order to chaos. Not the other way around. Ordered systems or structures do not happen spontaneously. We never observe orderliness occurring by accident, without an intelligent cause to direct the order. No amount of power or energy is enough to bring order out of chaos.

Probabilities are obvious. To roll the dice enough times to create a new species? Natural Selection can only do so much, then you are taking giant leaps.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Paul of Eugene OR

Finally Old Enough
Site Supporter
May 3, 2014
6,373
1,858
✟301,032.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Do you have an hour? You have a whole thread on it. http://www.christianforums.com/threads/what-is-the-positive-evidence-for-creationism.7909671/
Yes I do. Do you?



Broken laws:
Law of Biogenetics - The molecules to man evolution, you must believe that life (at least once) spontaneously formed from non-living chemicals. This is inconsistent with biogenetics (life from life).

There is no law that life cannot originate from non-living materials.

Laws of Physics
The Anthropic Principle - The Laws of Physics are fine tuned in just the right way so that life is possible.

On the other hand, there may well be other ways laws of physics could be tuned to make life possible. If one parameter alone is changed a bit making life impossible, another parameter might be tunable to compensate and make it possible again. But ultimately this is not an argument against evolution or any other findings of science.

The Law of Cause and Effect - Nothing happens by chance or outside the Universal Laws. Every Action has a reaction or consequence.

Actually, there are random chance events. Take a given unstable radioactive atom and try, just try, to determine exactly when it will decay. You cannot. Its time of decay is . . . . random.


Order to chaos. Not the other way around. Ordered systems or structures do not happen spontaneously. We never observe orderliness occurring by accident, without an intelligent cause to direct the order. No amount of power or energy is enough to bring order out of chaos.

If that statement were true, snowflakes would be impossible, for they are spontaneous and yet structured. So your premise is false with that common example. The basic problem you fail to address is that any time there is a consistent energy flow, patterns will form. These can grow in complexity, sustained by the flow of energy. Therefore, order comes out of chaos, ordered systems and structures do happen spontaneously, and we observe orderliness occurring by accident, without an intelligent cause to direct the order.

Probabilities are obvious. To roll the dice enough times to create a new species? Natural Selection can only do so much, then you are taking giant leaps.

Its possible to cover great distances by small steps as well as by giant leaps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dr GS Hurd
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
Is the defendant in this present nature? Noah probably wasn't.

How do you determine if a DNA sample came from the present state? How do you determine that the time and space that the murder occurred within was in the present state, given that no one was there to witness it?
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
Broken laws:
Law of Biogenetics - The molecules to man evolution, you must believe that life (at least once) spontaneously formed from non-living chemicals. This is inconsistent with biogenetics (life from life).

Humans and chimps evolving from a common ancestor does not break this law. The common ancestor would be living.

Laws of Physics
The Anthropic Principle - The Laws of Physics are fine tuned in just the right way so that life is possible. The constants and derivative laws of physics would come out in just the right way, so that chemistry would work in the right way, so that the elements and compounds would have the right properties, so that life would be possible. It's an amazing complex challenge. To say it is all by chance is irresponsible, not to mention bad science.

The Anthropic Principle is often cited as a fallacy and/or bias. It isn't a law.

The Law of Cause and Effect - Nothing happens by chance or outside the Universal Laws.

Nothing in evolution takes place outside of the universal laws. There are causes for all of the effects in evolution.

We never observe orderliness occurring by accident, without an intelligent cause to direct the order.

You won't find that in any physics textbook. That is something you have made up out of whole cloth.

No amount of power or energy is enough to bring order out of chaos.

No textbook says that. In fact, physics textbooks say just the opposite. If you add energy to a system the physics textbooks say that order can increase.

Probabilities are obvious. To roll the dice enough times to create a new species? Natural Selection can only do so much, then you are taking giant leaps.

That is not found in any science book. That is also something you have made up.
 
Upvote 0

Paul of Eugene OR

Finally Old Enough
Site Supporter
May 3, 2014
6,373
1,858
✟301,032.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Like you know better!? Ha.

I do know that the extra-biblical mythologies of the jews are generally nonsense. Thinks like, for example, asserting that Adam had a wife before Eve, Lillith, who turned into a demon because she didn't want to be subordinate to Adam, insisting on being his equal.
 
Upvote 0