Racist Jokes

[Quid est Veritas?]

Is there a difference in how the joke is designed or in how the joke is used though? If I tell a joke to someone who truly isn't offended by anything, can any joke go too far, or is it all relative only to the audience?

As I said, depends on the joke itself and the context it is used in.

People can get offended easily, but just because a member of the audience was offended by the joke, it doesn't make the joke racist per se.
A few years ago a newspaper chose a photo of a white bird and a black bird sitting on a dumpster as the winning entry in a competition. Immediately it became controversial as some were offended saying it was racist as the white bird appeared to look down at the black one and the photographer was white. I don't consider the photo racist, nor can birds be racists, nor did the photographer or newspaper expect this result. Just because something may be perceived as racist, does not necessarily make it so. I don't think the audience matters at all on whether something is racist or not. A good comedian has to read his audience though and delivery is very important to whether it will be perceived as funny.

 

[DaisyDay]

That's a pretty common stance, and I can understand that. I know that no matter my audience, I can always crack a joke about myself even if it's insulting, but not everyone is okay with me cracking a joke about them, but some are.

But that brings up another complication. If a black guy tells a black joke to a white guy, can the white guy laugh? Wouldn't he be laughing at black people?

Depends on the joke. He might be laughing at the situation or at the particular person - or he might be and it might be ok in that company. Or it might make him uncomfortable if it's a bad, bigoted joke, even if it is told by a black person. One size does not fit all.

 

[RDKirk]

There's a difference between jokes about race and racist jokes.

If you don't have a good awareness of the boundary, you can certainly get into trouble.

Mel Brooks' Blazing Saddles has hilarious jokes using the n-word or about rape. If you're not Mel Brooks, you might not want to try to go that far.

Yes.

Folks, there are words for these things. A "racist" joke is not the same thing as a "racial" joke.

One quick test: If a person of the race being spoken actually laughs himself and then says, "Yeah, that's us," then it's racial, not racist.

 

[keith99]

How many racists doers it take to change a light bulb?

None they would rather sit in the dark than do job for....

 

[Moral Orel]

As I said, depends on the joke itself and the context it is used in.

People can get offended easily, but just because a member of the audience was offended by the joke, it doesn't make the joke racist per se.

Well, the question isn't whether the joke is racist or not, it's whether it's bad to tell a racist joke. So if the joke is clearly about racial stereotypes, but no one gets offended, is that okay? No matter how terrible the joke's material is?

 

[Cearbhall]

I'm not sure "racist" jokes are any more immoral than any other type of joke. Political correctness, hate speech, positive discrimination etc. are all inventions by Communists to use as a weapon against ordinary people to usher in their New World Order. If something is evil, its evil, no matter if you're black, white, man, woman, Jew or Muslim. If its not evil, its not.

The same rules apply for all, no matter what the Commies say.

And that's just post #2, folks!

 

[Chesterton]

Don't post racist jokes here!

On a side note, I love white jokes (I'm white, so that's okay, right?). But they're hard to come by. If anyone knows any, please PM them to me. I'll be happy to reciprocate with any type of joke you like from my collection.

Hmm, you don't want racist jokes but you do. Okay.

I know one white joke. Trouble is, it's about a white who happens to be a Polak.

 

[Moral Orel]

Depends on the joke. He might be laughing at the situation or at the particular person - or he might be and it might be ok in that company. Or it might make him uncomfortable if it's a bad, bigoted joke, even if it is told by a black person. One size does not fit all.

So then you think too that it's about the audience. What if a white guy tells a black joke to a black guy who likes hearing black jokes?

Is telling offensive jokes bad in and of itself, or is it really only bad when you tell a joke for the purpose of offending, or with a careless disregard for whether you offend someone or not?

There are some kinds of jokes, that I won't go into detail about, that have the sole purpose of offending. The idea is to be as surprising and offensive as possible, and just being shocked makes it funny to some folks. Think Howard Stern. People don't generally take his opinions seriously, but they laugh simply because he's being outlandish for the sake of being outlandish. Anthony Jeselnik is another good example. If racist jokes are treated like that, in that they aren't a serious opinion, but merely dark for the sake of being dark, is that bad?

Again, audience matters, and if you tell jokes to people you know are going to be offended, you're being bad because you're trying to make them feel bad. But can words, no matter what they are, be appreciated in the right way to nullify their inherent negativity?

 

[Moral Orel]

Hmm, you don't want racist jokes but you do. Okay.

I know one white joke. Trouble is, it's about a white who happens to be a Polak.

I don't want people posting racist jokes publicly to offend the audience of the thread. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy offensive humor.

And if I had to guess, I'd bet your joke is just a Polak joke. But send it to me anyways! Through PM. If it's just a Polak joke, though, you've got a pretty slim chance that I haven't heard it.

 

[Moral Orel]

Yes.

Folks, there are words for these things. A "racist" joke is not the same thing as a "racial" joke.

One quick test: If a person of the race being spoken actually laughs himself and then says, "Yeah, that's us," then it's racial, not racist.

Hmmm... The distinction still isn't quite clear to me. What if it's a commonly known stereotype about a race, but it's very, very offensive, and the audience is offended? That makes it "racist"? But if it is accepted as humorous by a different audience, the same joke is "racial"?

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just not seeing the semantic distinction, honestly.

 

[Chesterton]

I don't want people posting racist jokes publicly to offend the audience of the thread. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy offensive humor.

And if I had to guess, I'd bet your joke is just a Polak joke. But send it to me anyways! Through PM. If it's just a Polak joke, though, you've got a pretty slim chance that I haven't heard it.

Yeah, it's a Polak joke but it doesn't have to be. You could substitute any other kind of person who has a food associated with them. From the style of it I'm thinking it probably is an old one but I'll send it in a few minutes. (Got some kiełbasa cookin').

 

[Cearbhall]

I chose Context. I do think that jokes and comedy are an art form and that they can be used to take power away from certain statements. When I play Cards Against Humanity with my friends and we laugh our heads off about the racist cards, we're putting those attitudes in their place, and that's what the gamemakers intended. We're not listening to a politician say those things and nodding along. We're acknowledging how ridiculous it is and consigning it to mindless entertainment.

 

[Moral Orel]

Well, it's one of those things where there's no hard and fast rule, you just sort of have to "know", I guess. Sort of like discussing politics, or making friends. The exact same words in different situations may have wildly varying results.

My general rule of thumb, though, is don't tell potentially objectionable jokes around strangers, especially if the punchline group has a member present.

My rule too. Over time I've learned to rank my jokes by their offensiveness. Once you get to the really bad end of the spectrum, you have to rank them really carefully though. Start with a kind-of-bad joke to warm them up and gauge their response. I usually don't get past that first one though... When someone tells me now, "tell me any kind of joke! I never get offended!" I reply, "well I have jokes about such-and-such and this-and-that..." and most of the time their response is, "there are jokes about that?!" And then I shut up and go back to chickens crossing the road.

Except New Zealanders, of course, because they'r always a punchline and they can suck it up.

Ha!

 

[Moral Orel]

I chose Context. I do think that jokes and comedy are an art form and that they can be used to take power away from certain statements. When I play Cards Against Humanity with my friends and we laugh our heads off about the racist cards, we're putting those attitudes in their place, and that's what the gamemakers intended.

I've told some jokes to my kid (teenager) for that same reason. I want him to think of the stereotypes as ridiculous first, so that when someone talks about them as if they're real, he'll be prepared to laugh in their face.

We're not listening to a politician say those things and nodding along. We're acknowledging how ridiculous it is and consigning it to mindless entertainment.

Coming from a politician it can be from different angles, but still bad. Sometimes outright racist things are said, and those aren't funny because they aren't even trying to be. But even when they're just trying to be funny, they have an audience that they know doesn't want to hear it. Not every joke is for every person. I've learned that the hard way, and so have some politicians.

 

[Moral Orel]

How many racists doers it take to change a light bulb?

None they would rather sit in the dark than do job for....

David Cross did an excellent bit a long time ago about racists and segregated graveyards. They are a bit easy to mock, but it can be quite funny nonetheless.

 

[RDKirk]

I chose Context. I do think that jokes and comedy are an art form and that they can be used to take power away from certain statements.

I also consider comedy an art form, and this is an important point about it: Not everyone is an artist.

 

[RDKirk]

Hmmm... The distinction still isn't quite clear to me. What if it's a commonly known stereotype about a race, but it's very, very offensive, and the audience is offended? That makes it "racist"? But if it is accepted as humorous by a different audience, the same joke is "racial"?

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just not seeing the semantic distinction, honestly.

A good racial joke won't be based on a stereotype, it will be based on a true first-hand observation. As I said earlier, the subject would also laugh and agree, "Yes, that's us."

Comedian Russell Peters--South Asian ancestry born and raised in Canada--pokes fun at practically every racial group (including his own), but he jokes about the things he's personally seen.

He tells one joke about how white parents are short-changing their kids by not spanking them, because the kids of all the other ethnic groups can come to school with stories of how their parents beat them...and the white kids get left out (remember, though, his experience is with Canadian parents).

But I remembered his joke one day when a Chinese woman in the cubicle next to mine--an IT contractor in the US on a work visa--came to my cubicle and asked in a hushed voice, "Is it really illegal for American parents to spank their children?"

 

[Moral Orel]

A good racial joke won't be based on a stereotype, it will be based on a true first-hand observation. As I said earlier, the subject would also laugh and agree, "Yes, that's us."

So a good racial joke would be based on something that is true, but a racist joke is based on false stereotypes. And you're saying that racial jokes can sometimes be okay, but racist jokes are never okay?

Are racist jokes okay in any context or under no circumstances?

 

[RDKirk]

So a good racial joke would be based on something that is true, but a racist joke is based on false stereotypes. And you're saying that racial jokes can sometimes be okay, but racist jokes are never okay?

Are racist jokes okay in any context or under no circumstances?

As I said earlier: As I said earlier, the subject would also laugh and agree, "Yes, that's us."

And as I also said earlier, comedy is an art, but not everyone is an artist. A person who doesn't have the talent to draw well would do well to avoid drawing people--his work might be offensive because of its sheer clumsiness.

The same is true of a person who doesn't really have the talent to craft a joke well.

This is also true of sarcasm. It takes a very witty person to do sarcasm well. Most people are not that witty, and their attempts at sarcasm just come off as catty and mean.

 

[Moral Orel]

As I said earlier: As I said earlier, the subject would also laugh and agree, "Yes, that's us."

And as I also said earlier, comedy is an art, but not everyone is an artist. A person who doesn't have the talent to draw well would do well to avoid drawing people--his work might be offensive because of its sheer clumsiness.

The same is true of a person who doesn't really have the talent to craft a joke well.

This is also true of sarcasm. It takes a very witty person to do sarcasm well. Most people are not that witty, and their attempts at sarcasm just come off as catty and mean.

So if it's a well written joke, delivered by a talented joke-teller, and the audience likes it, it's not bad, even if it clearly would offend other people when told by the same person? I think we agree, I just got confused through the racial v racist part.