Racism?

[suzybeezy]

I've been pulled over several times in Detroit in my own neighborhood because hey, what else would a white girl be doing in this type of neighborhood besides being a prostitute or doing drugs. I had my MINIVAN searched, along with my purse, my diaperbag, and all my kids' toys that were in the van. My kids had to get out of the van (THAT was fun, me and two toddlers) while they searched my car seats.

Racism sure does exist, but it's not so one-sided as everyone likes to think.

I've been pulled over for a "traffic check" - whatever the heck that is - honestly I've been pulled over several times for no real justifiable reason other than to just inflict some grief, imo. I think folks being pulled over for no real reason has less to do with race and more to do with police officers that are a little too eager to assert their power.

This thread has prompted me to have some of these race type discussions with friends and such in real life and I had a very very interesting one and like to get your take on it. The statement was there is a different perception by white folks of other races not because of the color of their skin but because of the type attitude - the guys walkin' down the street with their pants hangin' below their bottoms, the slang language that sound like their ignorant of any education, the gangs that develop in certain neighborhoods - and this is not a race thing cause there are white guys that act the same. I think that's true to some degree - I wouldn't have a problem my daughter dating a man of any race, but I'd have a big problem her dating a guy that behaves like he's a gansta!

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Where I lived at in Detroit had bad guys of all colors. We know that on one occasion that the parsonage was robbed, it was four white kids.

These days racism isn't so much about skin color as it is about perception. I have the same negative thoughts about a white kid walking down the middle of the street with his pants hanging at his ankles that I do about a black kid doing the same thing. I have the same preconceived notions about a person walking down the middle of the street at dusk wearing a dark colored hoodie, no matter what color they are.

There are people who perpetuate these perceptions - how about blaming them instead of the people who hold the perceptions? Better yet, don't act like the stereotype. I know how people would view me if I dressed like trailer trash, so I don't dress that way.

 

[DelindaJane]

*snip*

Back in the 60s, it was pretty common to demean blacks by calling them the n word. In response, they called themselves African American, to have pride in the heritage. This angers the white people today. "I don't call myself Euro-American!!!"

*snip*

I've never heard a white person call a black person "the N word." Other than perhaps in movies or documentaries that predate me. But, I have heard black people call other black people "the N word". So, can you explain to me, why if this term is such an offense to black people, why so many black people use it? And why white people are blamed for using it, when they really do not?

Also, I do not think that the newer than 60's term "African American" (it was first coined in 1997 according to Wikipedia) angers white people, nor was it coined as a response. I think it may have started as a result of Alex Hailey's movie Roots, which started a sort of social awakening imo of the plight of lost ancestral heritage, as an effort to reclaim some sense of belonging ancestrally to a country of origin.

As a side note: I will add something that I thought very interesting at the time that occurred at the Academy Awards a few years ago:
The nominees were announced by Jamie Foxx, an "African American" actor, by their country of origin. He read the names off his cues, one of which was Charlize Theron, who was listed as African American (she is a South African Born, American Citizen. ) Jamie Foxx noticibly scoffed. But, I have to ask, wouldn't someone who was born in Africa and took on American Citizenship rightly be entitled to use the term African American? And why would an American born black person be considered more entitled to use the term than she? When in reality, they are considered simply American as far as the rest of the world is concerned?

 

[Bankai_2]

I've never heard a white person call a black person "the N word." Other than perhaps in movies or documentaries that predate me. But, I have heard black people call other black people "the N word". So, can you explain to me, why if this term is such an offense to black people, why so many black people use it?

Sometimes oppressed minorities take words that were used to put them down and turn them into terms of endearment. For example, many gay and transgendered refer to themselves as "queer" but if I said "Shut up you queer!" that would still be homophobic.

But I have to ask, wouldn't someone who was born in Africa and took on American Citizenship rightly be entitled to use the term African American?

Absolutely, but I would like to note that white Africans are not ancestrally rooted in Africa; Most of them are of Dutch origin if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Braunwyn]

As a side note: I will add something that I thought very interesting at the time that occurred at the Academy Awards a few years ago:
The nominees were announced by Jamie Foxx, an "African American" actor, by their country of origin. He read the names off his cues, one of which was Charlize Theron, who was listed as African American (she is a South African Born, American Citizen. ) Jamie Foxx noticibly scoffed. But, I have to ask, wouldn't someone who was born in Africa and took on American Citizenship rightly be entitled to use the term African American? And why would an American born black person be considered more entitled to use the term than she? When in reality, they are considered simply American as far as the rest of the world is concerned?

It would have been correct to list her as South African American. Africa is a continent, not a country. If they were going by heritage, it's likely they were drawing on specific nations. No?

The reason, as I understand it, that blacks born in the US of African heritage use the term African American, rather than their specific nations like Irish American or Italian American, is because they do not know which nations they come from due to slavery. With this in mind, it would not be correct to call her African American. Thanks to RDNS for pointing that out a long time ago in some other thread.

 

[GarryJr]

Where I lived at in Detroit had bad guys of all colors. We know that on one occasion that the parsonage was robbed, it was four white kids.

These days racism isn't so much about skin color as it is about perception. I have the same negative thoughts about a white kid walking down the middle of the street with his pants hanging at his ankles that I do about a black kid doing the same thing. I have the same preconceived notions about a person walking down the middle of the street at dusk wearing a dark colored hoodie, no matter what color they are.

There are people who perpetuate these perceptions - how about blaming them instead of the people who hold the perceptions? Better yet, don't act like the stereotype. I know how people would view me if I dressed like trailer trash, so I don't dress that way.

i have to agree with this. stereotypes come from somewhere they just don't magicly start. and a lot of people are proud of the stereotypes applied to them and prove it by reinforcing it.

 

[Nooj]

It would have been correct to list her as South African American. Africa is a continent, not a country. If they were going by heritage, it's likely they were drawing on specific nations. No?

The reason, as I understand it, that blacks born in the US of African heritage use the term African American, rather than their specific nations like Irish American or Italian American, is because they do not know which nations they come from due to slavery. With this in mind, it would not be correct to call her African American. Thanks to RDNS for pointing that out a long time ago in some other thread.

Yeah, that makes sense. Although by that thinking, it'd be incorrect to use the term Asian-American...considering that most people do know what Asian country they come from.

 

[neutronium_alice]

98% of racism exists in the imaginations of the Progressives.

 

[Braunwyn]

Yeah, that makes sense. Although by that thinking, it'd be incorrect to use the term Asian-American...considering that most people do know what Asian country they come from.

For whatever reason people call themselves Asian-American, it is not based on an inability to trace roots. That's not to say it's incorrect. I can call myself European-American, for example, but when discussing heritage, I state Italian-American. Either way, if it's understood why black Americans use the term African-American, I fail to see the purpose of ignoring its intended use. I suppose that's not very clear for some, so the subject comes up. Once made clear, tho, courtesy (imo) should be employed.

A more interesting argument came up in a thread created by RDNS. His argument was that Obama should not use the term African-American because he's fully aware of his heritage. That's an interesting point, tho, I don't know if I fully agree with it.

 

[Nooj]

For whatever reason people call themselves Asian-American, it is not based on an inability to trace roots. That's not to say it's incorrect.

Well, leaving the shores of America for a second, in my personal experience, 'Asian-Australian' is a term that people who aren't Asian use.

I've never heard any of my friends or classmates call themselves an 'Asian-Australian'. When they speak about their identity, it's always 'Chinese' or 'Taiwanese' followed by the hyphen. We never really think of ourselves as 'Asian' and I think such foolish terms like 'Asian pride' (don't ask, ugh) gives the wrong impression of some sort of Asian unity. We think of ourselves in terms of nationality/ ethnicity.My friends know where their parents come from, and it sure as heck isn't 'Asia'.

A more interesting argument came up in a thread created by RDNS. His argument was that Obama should not use the term African-American because he's fully aware of his heritage. That's an interesting point, tho, I don't know if I fully agree with it.

But if he feels like he's an African-American, who's to say he's not? A lot of these labels are (imo) rather subjective.

 

[Braunwyn]

Well, leaving the shores of America for a second, in my personal experience, 'Asian-Australian' is a term that people who aren't Asian use.

That is strange.

I've never heard any of my friends or classmates call themselves an 'Asian-Australian'. When they speak about their identity, it's always 'Chinese' or 'Taiwanese' followed by the hyphen. We never really think of ourselves as 'Asian' and I think such foolish terms like 'Asian pride' (don't ask, ugh) gives the wrong impression of some sort of Asian unity. We think of ourselves in terms of nationality/ ethnicity.My friends know where their parents come from, and it sure as heck isn't 'Asia'.

Yea, I suspect it's the same for most. Given how diverse Asia is, it certainly seems silly to lump so many nations and cultures together.

But if he feels like he's an African-American, who's to say he's not? A lot of these labels are (imo) rather subjective.

Well, I think the point gets muddled when considering sociological factors involved in the African-American experience. I have a former colleague from Africa, and I can't think of the country right now, but he in no way considers himself African-American even though he is a citizen. It's not only because he is foreign born, but because he wasn't raised here. He goes by whatever his country of origin is.

In Obama's case, OTOH, sure he's aware of his heritage, but his experience is similar, according to him, to other African-Americans. In this light, I feel it's fair that he uses the term; semantics aside.

 

[cantata]

98% of racism exists in the imaginations of the Progressives.

[citation needed]

 

[Beanieboy]

But that is confusing, Beanie.

Confusing to kids.

Yeah, she is a Canadian; but people are trying to be respectful and demonstrate interest in the other portion of her culture, which is positive but can be interpreted negatively.

I have learned it is important to be careful in the discussion of people's origins so as to not overrule their status as an American.

Some people are good hearted.

I remember I was once speaking with a Korean-American who took offense when I asked if he was from the LA area where there is a very substantial amount of Korean-Americans. Of course, he was; and he lost the debate. Everyone sided with me...

If someone said, "Oh, you have Norwegian blood, are you from the midwest?" I would be satisfied with the proper assumption.

I do not feel a sensitivity to race.

What would you say to someone that said, "Oh, you're white. Are you from Texas?"

It's kind of a stupid question. There are many Koreans all over the States, just like white people. Your question sounds like you are living in WWII.

 

[Verv]

What would you say to someone that said, "Oh, you're white. Are you from Texas?"

It's kind of a stupid question. There are many Koreans all over the States, just like white people. Your question sounds like you are living in WWII.

I'd laugh at them.

But if they said "Oh, you look quite Norwegian; are you from the Midwest?" I would be impressed by their knowledge.

The majority of Korean-Americans tend to live in the Los Angeles or California area.

I was not being offensive but rather trying to make a deduction.

 

[Beanieboy]

I've been pulled over for a "traffic check" - whatever the heck that is - honestly I've been pulled over several times for no real justifiable reason other than to just inflict some grief, imo. I think folks being pulled over for no real reason has less to do with race and more to do with police officers that are a little too eager to assert their power.

This thread has prompted me to have some of these race type discussions with friends and such in real life and I had a very very interesting one and like to get your take on it. The statement was there is a different perception by white folks of other races not because of the color of their skin but because of the type attitude - the guys walkin' down the street with their pants hangin' below their bottoms, the slang language that sound like their ignorant of any education, the gangs that develop in certain neighborhoods - and this is not a race thing cause there are white guys that act the same. I think that's true to some degree - I wouldn't have a problem my daughter dating a man of any race, but I'd have a big problem her dating a guy that behaves like he's a gansta!

You may want to read "Everything but the Burden", which explores white surburban body who wear baggy jeans, emulating black gansta boys, but then go home to their Upper Class homes.

The difference? They don't have to deal with being black, and deal with the black experience.

I'm not saying that white people don't experience prejudice. However, people don't say to me, "you got this job because you were white." However, I have heard numerous coworkers claim that the only reason they weren't hired is because they are white. Not for a minute do they consider that maybe a black person go the job because they were a better candidate. It always goes back to race. I don't have someone walk up to me and say, "Yo, yo, yo, can I ax you a questions?" mocking my whiteness. I have seen people do it to black people, assume the asian kid is the smartest in the class, seen white people get physically scared simply because a black person entered the room or elevator.

There are many books on Seeing Whiteness, and White Privilege, but I don't think most people really want to know the answer to the questions that they talk about.

For example, there are white gangs, but the majority of gangs aren't white. Most are black. Most live in poor neighborhoods. Why do so many black people live in the ghetto? Look at history as recent as 1964, and Civil Rights. Black people were often prevented from jobs where you would make any decent salary, and "there goes the neighborhood," that kind of racism that made All In the Family so cutting edge, was in my lifetime.

But you couldn't explain it to Archie either, because he didn't want to educate himself enough to know that black people and white people in the US have had very different histories, had and continue to have very different obstacles to overcome, and it is the white people in general that have been in power all of this time.

In the last election, it is the first nonwhite president we have had ever in this country. And what do people ask him? "How does it feel to be the first black president?" He deflects the issue of race, but it was brought up by opponents of Barak, his name questioned, trying to link him to Islam and terrorism, etc.

Nobody asks white presidents, "can you comment about your race and skin color and how it helped you gain an advantage in the election?" White is a default.

You are American.
Or you are black, or African-American, but ONLY if white people call you that. Say you are Latino, and people want to know why you are so race conscious, or don't just say American. Walk down the street, and you will be indicated by saying, "That latin guy right there", "the black guy," "the asian guy" the African-American guy."

Whiteness studies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Beanieboy]

YouTube - Excedrine: Racial Tension Headaches

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Thinking back, when I was the sole white person on the night crew at Arby's, no one really thought about whether they were offending me with the comments that got made about white people all the time. Shoot, my manager used to joke that he was gonna rob every white person that came through the drive thru because they must be loaded. There was more...but had I reported it, I can almost imagine the laughter. No one would've cared if a little white chick was offended.

Of course, I wasn't offended because I'm not a racial person, but think about the reverse situation...would it have been the same way?

 

[Supernaut]

Thinking back, when I was the sole white person on the night crew at Arby's, no one really thought about whether they were offending me with the comments that got made about white people all the time. Shoot, my manager used to joke that he was gonna rob every white person that came through the drive thru because they must be loaded. There was more...but had I reported it, I can almost imagine the laughter. No one would've cared if a little white chick was offended.

Of course, I wasn't offended because I'm not a racial person, but think about the reverse situation...would it have been the same way?

I had literally the exact same situation though it was Taco Bell. I think I would've preferred Arby's though. The food is way better!

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I had literally the exact same situation though it was Taco Bell. I think I would've preferred Arby's though. The food is way better!

<derail>

Yep, Arby's was my one and only stint in fast food, and it lasted all of 3 months. I eventually got fired, because I found out they were trading food for beer with the liquor store across the street. Apparently my word meant nothing because they thought for sure I would tell someone. Shoot, I didn't care what they were doing. They didn't drink the beer on the premises and it was my manager doing it. My dad went in one day and asked about it (he was big on defending me, even though I was 19 at the time) and the guy told him I didn't mop the floors very well. Um...maybe that's because mopping floors wasn't my duty. And it wasn't.

But anyway, I really did like working for Arby's since I didn't really consider it "fast" food, and the people were pretty cool. I never felt weird working until 3am because my manager always made sure we got in our cars and stuff.

If someone absolutely MUST do a fast food stint, I highly recommend Arby's.

</derail>

 

[Verv]

You may want to read "Everything but the Burden", which explores white surburban body who wear baggy jeans, emulating black gansta boys, but then go home to their Upper Class homes.

The difference? They don't have to deal with being black, and deal with the black experience.

I'm not saying that white people don't experience prejudice. However, people don't say to me, "you got this job because you were white." However, I have heard numerous coworkers claim that the only reason they weren't hired is because they are white. Not for a minute do they consider that maybe a black person go the job because they were a better candidate. It always goes back to race. I don't have someone walk up to me and say, "Yo, yo, yo, can I ax you a questions?" mocking my whiteness. I have seen people do it to black people, assume the asian kid is the smartest in the class, seen white people get physically scared simply because a black person entered the room or elevator.

It is because THERE ARE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE QUOTAS ARE FILLED AND WHITE PEOPLE ARE DISENFRANCHISED.

And i tis not just in America.

It's in south Africa.

And it's not just with white people,

it is in India with Brahmans and in Malaysia with the Chinese and Malay question.

It is natural and widespread that the "empowered race" often has to struggle and get more credentials and qualifications to get the same job as a black.

Is that right, Beanie Boy?

There are many books on Seeing Whiteness, and White Privilege, but I don't think most people really want to know the answer to the questions that they talk about.

For example, there are white gangs, but the majority of gangs aren't white. Most are black. Most live in poor neighborhoods. Why do so many black people live in the ghetto? Look at history as recent as 1964, and Civil Rights. Black people were often prevented from jobs where you would make any decent salary, and "there goes the neighborhood," that kind of racism that made All In the Family so cutting edge, was in my lifetime.

True, and it was made worst by Welfare that made low-income housing just for blacks which resulted in them being congregated in small areas.

The big question, though, is why did the Irish who experienced the same problems, and why did the Chinese as well, overcome this in far shorter periods of time?

Same with the Jews.