Racism?

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

Does no one else think it is significant that this email is a fake? It wasn't written or spoken by Michael Richards and there was no court appearance or charge relating to his rant...no laws broken.

 

[PassionFruit]

I think it should just be history, not white or black. Due to the times and the ignorance of slavery, the history was made by predominantly white men. But we've come a long way. Imagine the history lessons in the future will include plenty of prominent accomplishments by people of color including the presidency and the diversity on the supreme court and military & medical accomplishments and lots of significant historical changes. Look at the strides this country is making. In my opinion, this is not the same racist country of the 1950s and organizations and programs need to start reflecting that - we need to stop all the separation of any sort based on race.

Well I think it should be history too, but I don't really believe we've come that far. From my view, there still seems to be this reluctance to acknowldge the contributions made by people of color. Just as MountainCappuccino points out, Black History doesn't go that much in depth. Literature is a good example of this, I've studied American Literature, but the majority of the authors that I studied were white males. I had to take courses that specialized in literature that are specficially from black women authors. In this day in age, I feel that I shouldn't have to take a course that specializes in women's or black literature. To me, it's American Literature, but I think society doesn't see it that way.

 

[DeathMagus]

I have to disagree with the idea that minorities are intentionally shut out of history lessons. Blacks were in slavery for almost the entire first century of the nation's existence, and were severely segregated against for another century after that. It's only natural that they would have fewer and smaller contributions to the history of the time than the privileged white majority. Women had similar obstacles to overcome, as did various minorities who immigrated later in American history. When I start thinking of famous inventors and innovators, I think of Edison, Morse, Bell, Whitney, Fulton, Tesla, and Carver, among others. The reason most of those people are white and male is not because history is skewed, but because whites had greater opportunity. We're talking major advances in electricity, communications, automation, and steam power. George Washington Carver is most commonly known for inventing a gazillion uses for peanut butter, and is well-noted because he was extremely well-educated for a black man of his time.

I don't think it's fair to say that two historical figures of equal import fail to receive equal balance in the history books simply because one is white or male and the other is not.

 

[MountainCappuccino]

I have to disagree with the idea that minorities are intentionally shut out of history lessons. Blacks were in slavery for almost the entire first century of the nation's existence, and were severely segregated against for another century after that. It's only natural that they would have fewer and smaller contributions to the history of the time than the privileged white majority. Women had similar obstacles to overcome, as did various minorities who immigrated later in American history. When I start thinking of famous inventors and innovators, I think of Edison, Morse, Bell, Whitney, Fulton, Tesla, and Carver, among others. The reason most of those people are white and male is not because history is skewed, but because whites had greater opportunity. We're talking major advances in electricity, communications, automation, and steam power. George Washington Carver is most commonly known for inventing a gazillion uses for peanut butter, and is well-noted because he was extremely well-educated for a black man of his time.

I don't think it's fair to say that two historical figures of equal import fail to receive equal balance in the history books simply because one is white or male and the other is not.

You make a very good point. However, I don't want my future children learning this: your ancestors were slaves, then they were discriminated against, oh yeah Carver and Fredrick Douglas, /end lesson. I'd like it to go more in depth and for them to learn about Black intellectuals, business men, and inventors who created new advancements without relation to a peanut plant. Our education system is crap as it is, and the huge amount of incidents and historical figures in our nations history can sometimes put Black history on the back burner, but come on.

 

[DeathMagus]

You make a very good point. However, I don't want my future children learning this: your ancestors were slaves, then they were discriminated against, oh yeah Carver and Fredrick Douglas, /end lesson. I'd like it to go more in depth and for them to learn about Black intellectuals, business men, and inventors who created new advancements without relation to a peanut plant. Our education system is crap as it is, and the huge amount of incidents and historical figures in our nations history can sometimes put Black history on the back burner, but come on.

Suppose, as a hypothetical, that the top 100 major American inventions were tallied up, along with their inventors. Suppose we only had time to teach students about 100 inventions and their impact. If (again - hypothetically) 95 of the top 100 inventions were made by white males, would you want the teachers to spend 95% of the time allocated for American inventions talking about those white males and their inventions? Why or why not?

 

[Nooj]

It is onlyw rong when you begin lumping negatives onto other races and not seeing people as individuals but viewing them as members of a race.

It's wrong when you begin lump positives onto 'races' as well. e.g. this race is super smart, this race has lots of hotties etc.

 

[sidhe]

Most Irish people do not consider themselves "White". "White" is a very ridiculous idea.

Irish Americans maybe do consider themselves "White", but we really don't consider them Irish. Basically because they abandoned what made them Irish to become "White". (even though Daniel O'Connell warned them against it.)

I have several friends that are Irish and amazingly (if an American saw them would think them..) "Black".

Irishness is not a skin colour it is a culture.

We are not "White".

You ever seen The Commitments?

"The Irish are the blacks of Europe...and we in Dublin are the blacks of the Irish! And we on the south side of Dublin...we're the *censored* of Dublin! So say it loud - I'm black and I'm proud!"

Anyway, the original email is a hoax, I'm Irish/Jewish - not white, and everyone should go see The Commitments right now.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Does no one else think it is significant that this email is a fake? It wasn't written or spoken by Michael Richards and there was no court appearance or charge relating to his rant...no laws broken.

It might be a hoax, but it's an attitude that a lot of people have...

I've gotten the email in several forms with different people being attributed to the statements.

At some point in time, someone did in fact make these statements. I agree with some of them, I disagree with some of them.

 

[suzybeezy]

It might be a hoax, but it's an attitude that a lot of people have...

I've gotten the email in several forms with different people being attributed to the statements.

At some point in time, someone did in fact make these statements. I agree with some of them, I disagree with some of them.

Yeah at the time I posted it I didn't realize it was a hoax, but I thought and still think it makes for an interesting discussion.

I was talkin' to a friend of mine who has bi-racial children. She said that as they've grown they know they are a different skin color than mommy. She said the conversation has come up that while they have darker skin, they do not associate themselves as being more white or more black. They consider themselves brown. I thought that was interesting. Maybe the best way to deal with racism is to get rid of all the lables - like we're all just Americans.

She went on to say that her husband, a biracial person himself, is annoyed by the whole Black History month concept at schools. He said in his opinion its demeaning to blacks that they have to "force" black history. He said he'd rather see History books integrate accomplishments as they occur.

 

[quatona]

Maybe the best way to deal with racism is to get rid of all the lables - like we're all just Americans.

Except that I´m not an American. Maybe the best way to deal with nationalism is to get rid of all the labels...

 

[keith99]

Suppose, as a hypothetical, that the top 100 major American inventions were tallied up, along with their inventors. Suppose we only had time to teach students about 100 inventions and their impact. If (again - hypothetically) 95 of the top 100 inventions were made by white males, would you want the teachers to spend 95% of the time allocated for American inventions talking about those white males and their inventions? Why or why not?

I'd want 95% of the time spent on 95% of the inventions.

I'm not a fan of Black or Hispanic or Oriental History month.

BUT I do see some value. If nothing gets mentioned about race, gender, sexual orientation or many other things like health it gets assumed it was a healthy white male. Now I have nothing against healthy white males. I am one (Ignoring the Irish issue which I will flip flop on just to upset some people). But I think the various history months pointing out that the person who did something was not a white male is worthwhile. Even 'minor' inventions like the streetlight are worth pointing out becasue it breaks steriotypes. Knowing that many great writers had poor health is worthwhile.

Actually in some ways I like things that can be thrown out as little tidbits. It can make history more fun. At times the ethinic history months do this, and when they do I will applaud them.

 

[Verv]

It's wrong when you begin lump positives onto 'races' as well. e.g. this race is super smart, this race has lots of hotties etc.

I can echo that sentiment.

By putting one above the other it automatically begs the conclusion that they are doing something more than the others.

That is not acceptable.

In order for one thing to be good, others must be bad.

 

[GarryJr]

let me see if i can get my thoughts out clearly here.

this disgust me, in america we are to be American period. once you start adding labels you start making seperations and distinctions. yes i can i understand pride in your race and accompolishments of prople of your race, but we as americans have made such a ordeal out of race that its causing more issues than without. people are more concerned with have the correct number of minorities working for them than having the best people for the job working for them. some people just go around looking to see if business hire enough minorities and if not its the end of the world for that company.

yet in my real experience there is what i call race elitism. we were working one day lifting some heavy equiptment. there twelve of us there assigned to the job. four white and 8 black. somehow it worked out that the four of us white guys ended up being the ones that did all the lifting while all 8 of the black guys stood of to the side in a circle talking. everytime one of us would go ask them to help us they'd say sure and move their circle somewhere else. this is a very common scene in my job field yet nobody will correct it. yet they still want to scream about equality and job promotions. how does that add up?

 

[Beanieboy]

If you aren't going to look at the history behind it, and refuse to acknowledge it, I'm not going to do the work for you.

Why is there a NAACP?
NAACP - History

When someone says "American", or "All American Boy", they don't picture a latino, a boy of Indian origin, a Asian American. They picture Ritchie Cunningham, or Brad Pitt. They don't picture Denzel Washington.

Back in the 60s, it was pretty common to demean blacks by calling them the n word. In response, they called themselves African American, to have pride in the heritage. This angers the white people today. "I don't call myself Euro-American!!!"

Yeah. You don't go that far. You say, "I'm Jim Flannigan. I'm Irish!!!" Or "I'm German!" or "I'm Norwegian!"

Is anyone complaining about people walking down the street celebrating their Irish heritage? No, because it is white people. That's ok.

Every year in Minneapolis, someone would write into the paper saying, "hey! How come there is a Gay Pride Parade, and no Straight Pride Parade?"

The "parade" started as a protest. It wasn't recognized by any city. People marched in protest for years, starting in the 70s, and it was recognized as a formal parade from it's growing size and political equality gains much later. In Minneapolis, it wasn't recognized until about 1990.

Does the city plan it for us? No. We make it ourselves.

You can find all of this information on the internet. You can watch Stonewall, a documentary about the movement. But that would take some work, and I am the one expected to educate such lazy people.

If one doesn't acknowledge white priviledge, and research the plethera of web sites on the topic, won't look at the history of NAACP, acknowledges that black colleges were born out of white prejudice, are ignorant of Little Rock Nine that needed the National Guard to protect and allow black children to integrate into a white school, then I can only conclude that you don't really want to know the answer. Why do they exist? Out of necessity to injustice created from white people that insist that the passing of Civil Rights made racism toward people of color magically disappear.

 

[Verv]

Beanie has a point but this was largely because the notion of all-American was forged around the time of WWII when the whites were by far the majority.

Nowadays, honestly, I have equal visions of blacks and whites as all-Americans but due to some cultural differences I think people with very strong Mexican influences or other hispanic influences do not fit the mold of all-American with the exception of perhaps those many-generationed Californians and Texans.

It's just hard for the human mind to not come up with stereotypes for things that fall along the lines of catering to the majority.

 

[Beanieboy]

I took a class in Canada talking about culture in the classroom. A man wrote an article about when he came to Canada from the Jamaica at 18. He later met and married a Canadian woman. Their 7 year old daughter was in her class where the teacher was asking where the students were from. Some said Montreal. Some said that they have always lived in Toronto. Some said Vancouver. The girl, when asked, said, "here in Toronto." The teacher said, "Yes, but where are you from originally?" She said, "Canada." The teacher continued, "well, where are your parents from?" She said, "my father is from Jamaica, and my mother is from Quebec", to which the teacher replied, "Hey, everyone! We have someone from a West Indie family!"

The girl came home, asking her father why she wasn't acknowledged as Canadian, especially since that is where she was born.

Why do you think?
Because she wasn't white.
White people are Canadian. Non White people are Jamaican-Canadian, until they call themselves that, and then they are asked why they insist on using the hyphen, as if it is allowed for others to use it, but not the person themselves.

 

[Verv]

I took a class in Canada talking about culture in the classroom. A man wrote an article about when he came to Canada from the Jamaica at 18. He later met and married a Canadian woman. Their 7 year old daughter was in her class where the teacher was asking where the students were from. Some said Montreal. Some said that they have always lived in Toronto. Some said Vancouver. The girl, when asked, said, "here in Toronto." The teacher said, "Yes, but where are you from originally?" She said, "Canada." The teacher continued, "well, where are your parents from?" She said, "my father is from Jamaica, and my mother is from Quebec", to which the teacher replied, "Hey, everyone! We have someone from a West Indie family!"

The girl came home, asking her father why she wasn't acknowledged as Canadian, especially since that is where she was born.

Why do you think?
Because she wasn't white.
White people are Canadian. Non White people are Jamaican-Canadian, until they call themselves that, and then they are asked why they insist on using the hyphen, as if it is allowed for others to use it, but not the person themselves.

But that is confusing, Beanie.

Confusing to kids.

Yeah, she is a Canadian; but people are trying to be respectful and demonstrate interest in the other portion of her culture, which is positive but can be interpreted negatively.

I have learned it is important to be careful in the discussion of people's origins so as to not overrule their status as an American.

Some people are good hearted.

I remember I was once speaking with a Korean-American who took offense when I asked if he was from the LA area where there is a very substantial amount of Korean-Americans. Of course, he was; and he lost the debate. Everyone sided with me...

If someone said, "Oh, you have Norwegian blood, are you from the midwest?" I would be satisfied with the proper assumption.

I do not feel a sensitivity to race.

 

[Beanieboy]

Beanie has a point but this was largely because the notion of all-American was forged around the time of WWII when the whites were by far the majority.

Nowadays, honestly, I have equal visions of blacks and whites as all-Americans but due to some cultural differences I think people with very strong Mexican influences or other hispanic influences do not fit the mold of all-American with the exception of perhaps those many-generationed Californians and Texans.

It's just hard for the human mind to not come up with stereotypes for things that fall along the lines of catering to the majority.

My partner is black, with a PhD. The number of time he and his black friends have been pulled over by Minneapolis police for DWB (Driving While Black), which is about 4-5 times a year - not for any moving violation, but just as a "security check", is something none of my white friends even knew existed. Many black residents started a protest after they were constantly followed by security for entering a dept store, with big buttons that said, "I am not a thief."

Racism is still alive. White people just refuse to admit it now, just as they refused to admit that there was anything wrong with White Only restaurants.

 

[Axioma]

Regarding World War 2, one of my favorite bits of information is that all the black soldiers were removed from the regiments during the liberation of Paris so that the newsreel cameras would only capture footage of white soldiers. It's just hilarious when people pull that kind of stunt when fighting Nazis, you know?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

My partner is black, with a PhD. The number of time he and his black friends have been pulled over by Minneapolis police for DWB (Driving While Black), which is about 4-5 times a year - not for any moving violation, but just as a "security check", is something none of my white friends even knew existed. Many black residents started a protest after they were constantly followed by security for entering a dept store, with big buttons that said, "I am not a thief."

Racism is still alive. White people just refuse to admit it now, just as they refused to admit that there was anything wrong with White Only restaurants.

I've been pulled over several times in Detroit in my own neighborhood because hey, what else would a white girl be doing in this type of neighborhood besides being a prostitute or doing drugs. I had my MINIVAN searched, along with my purse, my diaperbag, and all my kids' toys that were in the van. My kids had to get out of the van (THAT was fun, me and two toddlers) while they searched my car seats.

Racism sure does exist, but it's not so one-sided as everyone likes to think.