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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
RACISM? No, it is not.
- Thread starter msgstephen
- Start date
The people who've established the country they are in has a right to expect them to accept the culture. Not the other way around. If I go to Saudi Arabia [Although can I? I have some Jewish ancestry somewhere] would I expect them to change they way they celebrate the prophet's birthday? Would I insist they change their way of greeting one another, their change their language?
BTW, plenty of Muslims do declare their intention is to destroy all other religion/culture/governments and establish Islamic theocracy. A guy gets on TV here in Canada and proposes all those things.
BTW, plenty of Muslims do declare their intention is to destroy all other religion/culture/governments and establish Islamic theocracy. A guy gets on TV here in Canada and proposes all those things.
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sethad
I'm not [senDing sublimInal messagEs!]
msgstephen said:
who was in America first? whites? no, not whites.
and before...who were the people going into Latin America to try to "change" them and "help them"? who implemented the use of Eugenics. hmm...that would be white people
and no one is telling you to change how you celebrate christmas. no one is telling you to change you language. no one is telling you to change how you greet people...etc etc etc.
and YES you can go to other countries even if you ancestry isnt from that country. isnt diversity great! (obviously you dont think so)
your logic is flawed.
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Sorry, but I'm not a subscriber to multi-culturalism anymore. There's no give and take with it. I can't go to China and establish my culture there, why should the Chinese do so to the people here.
If it were fair, then maybe, but it is not. So I believe countries, such as Canada, have every right to preserve and protect the established culture against onslaught. Kudos to Her Excellency Michaelle Jean for insisting it is a Christmas Tree.
If it were fair, then maybe, but it is not. So I believe countries, such as Canada, have every right to preserve and protect the established culture against onslaught. Kudos to Her Excellency Michaelle Jean for insisting it is a Christmas Tree.
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msgstephen said:
Someone is always going on TV to declare their intention to destroy something, but you can't destroy something so large as a country all by your lonesome. If they didn't make good points, at least to some sub-group, no one would be listening to them. For the destruction of Canadian culture to be undertaken, it would have to seem like a reasonable thing to do. And how can Canada protect itself? By being a perfectly reasonable country whose destruction would help no one at all. I've yet to encounter one culture yet that would be undermined and usurped by being perfectly reasonable.
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sethad
I'm not [senDing sublimInal messagEs!]
msgstephen said:
ah ok so you dont like multi culturalism or other cultures in your country even if your country is multi cultural? and of course you want YOUR culture, not anybody elses' even though your culture wasnt there first?
I think I'm finally beginning to understand. and I completely disagree.
If you want JUST your culture, go back to Europe. its where your ancestors are from anyway.
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Blackguard_
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
Technically true, but I have my doubts the muslims will just live alongside once they are the majority. They do not beleive the Multi-Kulti stuff the whites do and would probably govern Europe like anyother muslim country. At the very least, old European culture would be marginalized an dit would be the same end result as if an Islamic army marched through.
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Something tells me it's not just one guy. His show is produced, he has agreeing guests, he has an audience etc. etc. Many muslims in Canada actually do think they are at the bleeding edge of not-too-distant future destruction of Canadian culture. Some of their own, breaking their bonds, write books exposing those very notions.
Just this past year some scandals came out at Muslims schools where war-like Jihad was being promoted and so on. So, yes, there are forces in the country, imported, that not just mindlessly, but proactively, seek usurption.
I don't subscribe to multi-culturalism anymore. It used to sound like the golden fruit, but it's turning out more like a rotten apple.
Just this past year some scandals came out at Muslims schools where war-like Jihad was being promoted and so on. So, yes, there are forces in the country, imported, that not just mindlessly, but proactively, seek usurption.
I don't subscribe to multi-culturalism anymore. It used to sound like the golden fruit, but it's turning out more like a rotten apple.
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Blackguard_
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
I'm not talking about a bloody coup or anything. I mean someday the Muslims will have the numbers to vote in a theocratic Sunni or whatver government.
It is possible to take over a country peacefully.
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See, I'm not racist. Race is decidely not the point. You, however, are probably a racist [anti-white] although I don't say here for sure you are, just that I suspect it.
What I'm saying, is that in this world the Judeo-Christian/European culture is expected to diminish and pay the price while all other cultures impose upon it.
I agree with those in Australia that it is time to stop calling our Christmas Trees "holiday trees" [among many other things we are expected to change] and take a stand for our culture, its quirks, and its value and refuse those who would erase it [however so blatantly or sublty].
Here in Canada, it is a black woman [I'm just mentioning that for sake of this particular discussion and your rude accusing me of being wanting to join the KKK], Her Excellency Michaelle Jean, who has drawn a line in the sand. I fully support her position.
What I'm saying, is that in this world the Judeo-Christian/European culture is expected to diminish and pay the price while all other cultures impose upon it.
I agree with those in Australia that it is time to stop calling our Christmas Trees "holiday trees" [among many other things we are expected to change] and take a stand for our culture, its quirks, and its value and refuse those who would erase it [however so blatantly or sublty].
Here in Canada, it is a black woman [I'm just mentioning that for sake of this particular discussion and your rude accusing me of being wanting to join the KKK], Her Excellency Michaelle Jean, who has drawn a line in the sand. I fully support her position.
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UKrevert said:
sorry, what "perfect" country do you live in?
By the way, many Australians dont agree with things that our government does or has done in the past
So untill you can clear england of all its past/current mistakes stop ripping on other peoples countrys.
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Actually, no, Europe is not an option. Our culture is Judeo-Christian/European-based, but decidely Canadian.
It is a wonderful meld of multiple Cultures, and has strong flavours. But instead of erasing it, like some might have us do, or awashing it, as others might have us do, I think we should protect it and nurture it.
The policy of 'multi-culutralism' is not used anymore to promote the culture here, rather wash into something bland and meaningless if not erase it altogether.
You probably are not Canadian and don't understand the situation here, but we have the highest immigration rate in the world. We are over doing it and should really throttle back. We do have a right to preserve distinctly Canadian culture and should not be expected to become an Islamic theocracy nor anything else but CANADIAN.
It is a wonderful meld of multiple Cultures, and has strong flavours. But instead of erasing it, like some might have us do, or awashing it, as others might have us do, I think we should protect it and nurture it.
The policy of 'multi-culutralism' is not used anymore to promote the culture here, rather wash into something bland and meaningless if not erase it altogether.
You probably are not Canadian and don't understand the situation here, but we have the highest immigration rate in the world. We are over doing it and should really throttle back. We do have a right to preserve distinctly Canadian culture and should not be expected to become an Islamic theocracy nor anything else but CANADIAN.
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America the land mass or the United States?
The first citizens of the United States were white. The first peoples the Americas? No one knows. There's evidence whites were in the Americas ten thousand years ago along with Blacks etc. etc. I don't think any group can surely claim unbroken attachment to any particular land mass.
The first citizens of the United States were white. The first peoples the Americas? No one knows. There's evidence whites were in the Americas ten thousand years ago along with Blacks etc. etc. I don't think any group can surely claim unbroken attachment to any particular land mass.
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I'm not a racist. I admit I do not understand all the ramifications of the fact there are "the races", but personally I do think people of every race should have every opportunity open to them.
The argument is not about race, it is about CULTURE. You want to dilute it with acusations of racism where there is none - typical, of course, and annoying. If you have a beef against whites that's not my problem nor does it belong in this thread which is about CULTURE.
Accuse away, but I'm not answering anything more where you accuse me of racism or rudely accuse me of the KKK or anything else racist.
The argument is not about race, it is about CULTURE. You want to dilute it with acusations of racism where there is none - typical, of course, and annoying. If you have a beef against whites that's not my problem nor does it belong in this thread which is about CULTURE.
Accuse away, but I'm not answering anything more where you accuse me of racism or rudely accuse me of the KKK or anything else racist.
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Lynden1000
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msgstephen said:
America is a Christian country in the sense of having a predominantly Christian population. I don't think anyone doubts that. It is not Christian in the sense of having an official state religion. Unlike earlier times in American history, I'm not going to be subject to arrest for following the Baptist faith, or the Quaker faith, or the Jewish faith.
If America ever declares any particular religion to be the official religion of the nation, I would hope members of all religions would stand up and protest such a violation of the freedoms that make our country great.
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arunma
Flaming Calvinist
No one responded to my last post (or if they did, I must have missed it). I hope I get a response this time.
Whether or not you really are a racist, I hope you can see why this statement does sound racist. If you call yourself a Christian, then you don't know what you are saying. Many of the Chinese are Christians. You are saying that Chinese American Christians must conform to Western culture. Whatever you think about unbelievers, all Christians are Biblically commanded by the apostles to have brotherly love for each other. If you don't have that love for Chinese Christians, then you may want to examine yourself before the Lord.
The Christian church is multicultural. It has been this way since people from many nations became Christians at the first Pentecost after Christ's resurrection. If you don't subscribe to multiculturalism, then the church isn't the proper place for you. I'm not attempting to condemn you at the moment, but I think that my position is taught in the Bible, and that the church is mandated to fold all cultures into the body of Christ. All Christians must embrace the purpose of the church.
I want you to know that I am genuinely trying to interpret what you say as non-racist, and I am having a difficult time doing so. I hope you will help me by repudiating racism in some way.
You have attacked certain groups: secularists and Muslims. Now, as an evangelical, theologically orthodox Christian, I am also opposed to the beliefs of these people. But here is the problem: you speak about European culture and Christianity as if it were the same thing. You would be right to say that European culture is traditionally Christian. You would be very wrong to say that Christianity is characteristically European. Since the beginning of Christianity, the church has been comprised of all races and cultures. In fact, some of the most important church fathers were Africans. To us non-white Christians, your attempt to Europeanize Christianity excludes the rest of us. The apostle Paul condemned racial divisions. Therefore, the church must embrace all cultural traditions (European and otherwise) for the glory of Jesus Christ. If the church does not do this, then it will be destroyed.
Question: would you rather receive non-European, Christian immigrants to Canada, or would you prefer to to receive European atheists into your country?
If you'd like, I can ask the question more generally. When you say that you want to preserve "distinctly Canadian culture," precisely what are you trying to preserve? Are you trying to preserve Christianity, or European culture? Because there is no short supply of non-European Christian cultures.
Msgstephen said:
Whether or not you really are a racist, I hope you can see why this statement does sound racist. If you call yourself a Christian, then you don't know what you are saying. Many of the Chinese are Christians. You are saying that Chinese American Christians must conform to Western culture. Whatever you think about unbelievers, all Christians are Biblically commanded by the apostles to have brotherly love for each other. If you don't have that love for Chinese Christians, then you may want to examine yourself before the Lord.
Msgstephen said:
The Christian church is multicultural. It has been this way since people from many nations became Christians at the first Pentecost after Christ's resurrection. If you don't subscribe to multiculturalism, then the church isn't the proper place for you. I'm not attempting to condemn you at the moment, but I think that my position is taught in the Bible, and that the church is mandated to fold all cultures into the body of Christ. All Christians must embrace the purpose of the church.
Msgstephen said:
I want you to know that I am genuinely trying to interpret what you say as non-racist, and I am having a difficult time doing so. I hope you will help me by repudiating racism in some way.
You have attacked certain groups: secularists and Muslims. Now, as an evangelical, theologically orthodox Christian, I am also opposed to the beliefs of these people. But here is the problem: you speak about European culture and Christianity as if it were the same thing. You would be right to say that European culture is traditionally Christian. You would be very wrong to say that Christianity is characteristically European. Since the beginning of Christianity, the church has been comprised of all races and cultures. In fact, some of the most important church fathers were Africans. To us non-white Christians, your attempt to Europeanize Christianity excludes the rest of us. The apostle Paul condemned racial divisions. Therefore, the church must embrace all cultural traditions (European and otherwise) for the glory of Jesus Christ. If the church does not do this, then it will be destroyed.
Msgstephen said:
Question: would you rather receive non-European, Christian immigrants to Canada, or would you prefer to to receive European atheists into your country?
If you'd like, I can ask the question more generally. When you say that you want to preserve "distinctly Canadian culture," precisely what are you trying to preserve? Are you trying to preserve Christianity, or European culture? Because there is no short supply of non-European Christian cultures.
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