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Again, if God doesn't have the freedom to change a heart, it's synergism. It's just a word to describe your position. No more, no less.agreed but what i am describing is not synergism
Show me where I've been inaccurate and make your correction. Somehow you've two have made this about me. If it continues, I'll find another thread.that is the issue we are bringing up to you
you do not accurately rephrase what we are saying
you assume you know what we are saying and without our permission rephrase
we then correct you on what we really said
you keep doing this - putting words in our mouth
this is unacceptable - you are misquoting/putting words in our mouths/rephrasing
please don't do that anymore - please ask us to rephrase - or ask us if xyz is what we are saying - don't tell us we are saying xyz
synergism means 2 parties make something happenAgain, if God doesn't have the freedom to change a heart, it's synergism. It's just a word to describe your position. No more, no less.
If man doesn't accept it, it doesn't happen. So for it to happen, man must accept.synergism means 2 parties make something happen
God makes salvation on His own
man accepts it or rejects it - he makes nothing happen
a surgeon alone does the surgery - the patient can't in any way contribute to the work involved in performing a surgery - there is no synergy in the act of surgeryIf man doesn't accept it, it doesn't happen. So for it to happen, man must accept.
2 parties.
Synergism.
You are blurring the lines. I'm not saying that you can regenerate yourself (have the surgery, in this case). But to have the surgery, you must agree to it. So it's synergism.a surgeon alone does the surgery - the patient can't in any way contribute to the work involved in performing a surgery - there is no synergy in the act of surgery
God is the surgeon - we are the patient
the patient accepts the surgeon and the surgeon does the surgery all on his own with no contribution from the patient
with Jesus - He paid for the sins of the whole world - it's complete - man can do nothing to add to the payment - we accept or reject His work - we say yes and the payment is applied - we say no and the payment is not applied
regeneration happens the moment we let the payment be applied - we do not apply the payment - God applies the payment - then God does the regeneration - we have no synergy - nothing at all to contribute - God alone is the only party doing the paying - the application of the payment - and then the work of regeneration
synergy involves energy exerted - we exert no energy at all in the whole process of payment - application of payment - or the resulting regeneration after the payment is applied to our account
payment already happened - Jesus fully paid once for all - 1 Peter 3:18, Romans 6:10If man doesn't accept it, it doesn't happen. So for it to happen, man must accept.
2 parties.
Synergism.
i see what you are saying about monergism and synergismYou are blurring the lines. I'm not saying that you can regenerate yourself (have the surgery, in this case). But to have the surgery, you must agree to it. So it's synergism.
In theology, synergism doesn't mean that you save yourself or are in some way able to participate in your regeneration. It simply means that in order for God to regenerate you, you must be willing to allow Him to do so.
So if I can attempt to use a similar analogy, monergism would be you coming to a hospital ER, dying and unconscious, and without consent, the surgeon performing life-saving surgery on you.
Your two-step monergism is synergism, theologically speaking.i see what you are saying about monergism and synergism
i edited the post you quoted because i saw some errors in what i said
the reason i disagree with synergism is there is no way anyone can cooperate with their own salvation
all the person knows with his conscious mind is that God is proving to them He exists and Jesus died for their sins
the person either accepts this or he doesn't
then in a separate step after he believes God exists and Jesus died for his sins - without his knowledge/understanding/permission God regenerates him - so he has no way of cooperating with a spiritual activity that is far beyond his comprehension
my version of monergism is different than your version of monergism
THE REGENERATE
you have 2 parties involved in your 1-step monergism - God who decides and acts - and the regenerate who does nothing because God did it all
i have 2 parties involved in my 2-step monergism - 1. God who proves He is God and Jesus died for man's sins - man who believes/accepts God's truth using the measure of faith that God gives to each man - 2. God who regenerates the man - and the regenerate who does nothing because God did it all
THE REJECTOR
you have 2 parties involved in your 1-step monergism - God who decides and acts to cause a man to refuse God - and the rejector who does nothing because God did it all
i have 2 parties involved in my 2-step monergism - 1. God who proves He is God and Jesus died for man's sins - man who rejects God's truth due to the fact he hates God and loves sin misusing the measure of faith God gives to every man - 2. God who does not regenerate the man - and the rejector who does nothing at all because salvation comes from God alone
because regeneration is a separate work after someone accepts God exists and Jesus died for their sins it does not conform with the meaning of synergy:Your two-step monergism is synergism, theologically speaking.
A rose by any other name...
Okay. Think what you wish.because regeneration is a separate work after someone accepts God exists and Jesus died for their sins it does not conform with the meaning of synergy:
synergism
the interaction or cooperation of two or more organizations, substances, or other agents to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects.+
1. Definition of SYNERGISM
2. the definition of synergism
3. What is synergism? definition and meaning
4. Synergism (theology) - Wikipedia
5. Synergism | Theopedia
likewise my dear friendOkay. Think what you wish.
You may disagree with the label. But the truth of it, regardless of how you choose to label it, you believe that God will not regenerate a man apart from his permission.likewise my dear friend
you and i disagree on man-made terms like synergism
you and i also disagree on interpretation of scripture regarding free will and regeneration
you want to label my beliefs with an inaccurate label and i reject that inaccurate label
nothing more nothing less
no not trueYou may disagree with the label. But the truth of it, regardless of how you choose to label it, you believe that God will not regenerate a man apart from his permission.
So you're saying that you were born again prior to you believing the gospel? Or was belief in the gospel first?no not true
i said regeneration needs no permission/knowledge/understanding because it is a spiritual work far beyond the comprehension and ability of man to be involved
man is never asked by God to give his permission to regeneration
God only proves He exists and Jesus paid for man's sins - which is not regeneration - regeneration comes later
perhaps in your beliefs accepting God and being regenerated is one and the same
i do not interpret scripture that way
i see 2 distinct situations - making regeneration totally an act of God with no contribution from man
I've never implied that you believe regeneration is partly a work of man.making regeneration totally an act of God with no contribution from man
amen - that's goodI've never implied that you believe regeneration is partly a work of man.
I've also never said or implied that anything is part of regeneration. So that's not what we disagree on.then the part you and i disagree on is that accepting God exists and accepting Jesus died for our sins is a part of regeneration
So you're saying that you were born again prior to you believing the gospel? Or was belief in the gospel first?
@Hammsteramen - that's good
then the part you and i disagree on is that accepting God exists and accepting Jesus died for our sins is a part of regeneration
i say it is not
it is a separate issue altogether
no synergy energy effort work
it also is a non-energetic response
iow i can sit here all day saying yes or no to your posts
it takes no energy at all on my part to say yes or no
which is all God looks for from a man when HE gives a measure of faith to every man and then beyond all doubt proves to each man that He exists and Jesus paid for all his sins
synergy effort energy work
the only energy it takes on my part is to look up scriptures and type and format my explanations to your posts - if i want - i don't have to do any of this effort in discussing this topic with you - i could simply sit here all day saying only yes or no to your posts
so replying to your posts with more than just a yes or no is a separate issue all together
likewise saying yes or no to God's proof that He exists and Jesus paid for all sins can never be considered synergy - but even beyond that it is a separate action from regeneration
that is why i am a monergist and why i totally reject synergism
if for you there are only 2 options then your options are far more narrow than mine
i don't have to be boxed in by man-made theology
i can freely believe scripture apart from man-made theology
i was born again/regenerated after i believed God existed and Jesus paid for my sins.So you're saying that you were born again prior to you believing the gospel? Or was belief in the gospel first?
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