Quoting Bible verses

[razeontherock]

You are treading on thin theological ground.

Giving an unbeliever Scripture is thin theological ground?

 

[LOCO]

Giving an unbeliever Scripture is thin theological ground?

"razeontherock; So you don't rely on anyone's interpretation, but come into contact with the "idea behind it" for yourself."

Telling them that Christians 'come into contact with the 'idea behind it' for themselves is.

Not relying on anyone's interpretation makes no sense and is unbiblical.

All doctrine is guided by the Holy Spirit. If you have a Flying Spaghetti congregation whose interpretation differs from the Flying Spaghetti congregation down the road, how do you explain that? Same church, different interpretation. We have believers who decide for themselves they know what the Bible is saying, disagree with their church elders and pack up their bongos and go and start a new one.

Who is the Holy Spirit guiding, all of them? I don't think so. The Holy Spirit can never be the author of confusion or conflicting doctrines.

Using Scripture to make your point makes little impact if the listener (OP) thinks the Bible holds as much weight as the advertising material they find in their mailbox.

 

[razeontherock]

Hmmm. You are expressing the sentiment that Scripture is impotent, at least in some cases. This is not my experience. At any rate this sub-forum is not set up as the place for you and I to discuss such things.

Yet you missed the entire point of my statement. It was never that Christians come into contact with 'the idea behind it,' it was that the questioning unbeliever could. Hopefully the OP sees that ...

 

[LOCO]

Hmmm. You are expressing the sentiment that Scripture is impotent, at least in some cases. This is not my experience. At any rate this sub-forum is not set up as the place for you and I to discuss such things.

Yet you missed the entire point of my statement. It was never that Christians come into contact with 'the idea behind it,' it was that the questioning unbeliever could. Hopefully the OP sees that ...

It's impotent if the listener does not believe God exists. You need to speak to your audience. The OP is an atheist, does not believe God exists therefore the Bible is probably viewed by them as a fairytale book.

If you were talking with someone who is seeking honest answers about the Bible then you could dig a little deeper into Scripture with them because they are open to the possibility of God and are discovering the Bible for themselves.

Okay...gotcha about the OP and 'the idea behind' and unbelievers but quoting Scripture alone is unconvincing, flesh it out a little.

Personally I don't know why an atheist would come here unless deep down they are curious about faith.

 

[Non sequitur]

It's impotent if the listener does not believe God exists. You need to speak to your audience. The OP is an atheist, does not believe God exists therefore the Bible is probably viewed by them as a fairytale book.

If you were talking with someone who is seeking honest answers about the Bible then you could dig a little deeper into Scripture with them because they are open to the possibility of God and are discovering the Bible for themselves.

Okay...gotcha about the OP and 'the idea behind' and unbelievers but quoting Scripture alone is unconvincing, flesh it out a little.

I'd agree with with that 100% and would hope other Christians would take that advice.

To an atheist, it's basically like saying, "This dude who thought he could read minds told me..." After that, it's all noise.

You need to establish a common foundation, as a frame of reference, otherwise it sounds silly.

Personally I don't know why an atheist would come here unless deep down they are curious about faith.

I would say it would all boil down to that.

I mean, it is quite curious.

 

[razeontherock]

So we have common ground here. Let me ask for specifics that you are curious about? The things I see most commonly are,

1) the divisions between different branches of C. Here we have what could only be described as opposite ends of the spectrum coming together, so can we leave that morbid fascination alone?

2) More morbid fascination with blood and gore in the OT. (I'm not referring to prophecy of Christ here) Can we leave that alone until a deeper understanding is established?

Personally, I found both a great curiosity as well as a deep disturbance re: all things Christian, from a very young age. Surely you must have other issues of interest besides these 2, above? I do make a point to express concepts in my own words and from my own experience, only leaving it in Scriptural format when duly impressed there is no better way to convey a point.

 

[maizer]

I find it rather self-serving when people use Bible verses to explain things non-believers ask.

I don't know if its just me, but to be honest I found it a bit difficult to understand your post. Are you saying that there is little merit using the Bible to argue with folks who do not accept the Bible as divine?

In that case I agree with you. The debate may be more fruitful if the Bible was put aside should someone request it. In fact my own mentor respected my request to not use the Bible when reasoning with me, and we had great talks.

The problem is there are some Christians who are not really used to in depth debates into what will be deeply philosophical. But there are quite a few Christians who are, and I hope you have great discussions!

 

[Non sequitur]

I don't know if its just me, but to be honest I found it a bit difficult to understand your post. Are you saying that there is little merit using the Bible to argue with folks who do not accept the Bible as divine?

In that case I agree with you. The debate may be more fruitful if the Bible was put aside should someone request it. In fact my own mentor respected my request to not use the Bible when reasoning with me, and we had great talks.

The problem is there are some Christians who are not really used to in depth debates into what will be deeply philosophical. But there are quite a few Christians who are, and I hope you have great discussions!

Me too, thanks.

I'm sure Biker for Chri-I mean, somebody I know, means well.

 

[elman]

The bible is 'of no private interpretation' (no need to quote chapter and verse, this is very familiar ). We have been taught that this means that one must accept the orthodox interpretation held by most Christian religions, and not try to 'wrest', or twist, the scriptures in any way. This is fine for the masses who are spoon fed scriptural meanings by the churchES and don't seek deeper meanings. Those of us who do seek deeper meanings often find them. When a minister teaches from God's word he tailors his message to the masses. When God is speaking to the individual through personal bible study all sorts of revelations appear, and any honest minister will admit this.

Everyone, without exception, picks and choses which verses to ignore and which verses to emphsize and everyone interprets what their chosen verses say or they depend on someone else's interpretation. There is no avoiding private interpretation, nor should there be. We should think for ourselves, and not rely on what someone else tells us something means.

 

[Non sequitur]

Everyone, without exception, picks and choses which verses to ignore and which verses to emphsize and everyone interprets what their chosen verses say or they depend on someone else's interpretation. There is no avoiding private interpretation, nor should there be. We should think for ourselves, and not rely on what someone else tells us something means.

I think LOCO said it best:

"It's impotent if the listener does not believe God exists. You need to speak to your audience. The OP is an atheist, does not believe God exists therefore the Bible is probably viewed by them as a fairytale book."

 

[razeontherock]

That is a humanist perspective that assumes there is no Spirit, or at the very least that there is no Spirit within the Words themselves.

Some of us know better.

 

[Non sequitur]

That is a humanist perspective that assumes there is no Spirit, or at the very least that there is no Spirit within the Words themselves.

Some of us know better.

Well, you should talk to somebody with a common foundation. Seems rather silly to go outside that, as anything that helps support your case.

Also, I don't know whom you are referring to, since you didn't quote anybody.

 

[razeontherock]

Usually a conversation will follow whoever spoke last, unless something indicates otherwise.

 

[Non sequitur]

Usually a conversation will follow whoever spoke last, unless something indicates otherwise.

I still don't see what that has to do with anything said.

 

[razeontherock]

Ok, but then again you don't see anything flaming in your tagline either

 

[FaithPrevails]

I find it rather self-serving when people use Bible verses to explain things non-believers ask.

Since it has been pretty much established that people can interpret it however they want and/or in many a number of ways, that would mean that there could, equally, be any number of other possible interpretations... which could only establish that it is the "idea behind it" that is true, but the interpretations could be wrong.


However, since you can only first start with with the subjectivity of interpretation to determine the objectivity of the material, wouldn't that mean your objectivity would always skewed?

So logistically, you would arrive nowhere else.


You wouldn't quote Bible verses, if you didn't already believe it as a viable source for quoting "ideas".

You wouldn't believe it as a viable source for quoting "ideas", if you didn't already believe in the Bible.


So, to me, doesn't it seems useless to use them as "truthful nuggets of knowledge" to other people, outside your ideology?

To me, it depends on the context of the conversation, what type of questions are being asked, and/or whether or not the scripture would help in explaining how I came to a certain belief.

I'm more of a personal testimony kinda girl when it comes to non-believers asking me questions. I've never been much of one to memorize scriptures - even the ones that I turn to often (highlighted in my Bible) have to be looked up to make sure I'm quoting them properly.

 

[maizer]

Me too, thanks.

I'm sure Biker for Chri-I mean, somebody I know, means well.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for any threads you create, though work and family do take a lot of time!

 

[Non sequitur]

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for any threads you create, though work and family do take a lot of time!

Hope you don't regret it