Quit talking the talk...

[FaithLikeARock]

I disagree. You do not have accept someones sin to love them.

No, you have your definitions mixed up. You have to accept someones sin to accept them. Obviously their sin exists.

What you don't have to do is love their sin to love them and no one is asking you to do that. Really, I'd just not bring attention to it.

 

[Zaac]

Don't know, don't really care, because in the end our sin doesn't matter a hill of beans if we accept Christ.

Your witness is affected by the degree to which you live in obedience after accepting Christ. And at no point in His Word does God even hint at there haven been a genuine salvation where someone is continuing in unrepentant sin.

The person indwelled by the Holy Spirit will care about his witness.

I don't have the intelligence to determine what is and isn't sin so I may very well accept everything as sin. I will not do anything to harm another person and will do everything to help another person and as long as I hold to that I feel close to God. Trying to avoid sin by sin will never work. It's impossible. .

That's a cop out and a sin itself. You're going to be disobedient and not do what God says to do just because you want to be politically correct and not call sin that which He calls sin.

Trying to be as good as you can through ministry without paying mind to sin works far better

I know plenty of folks mired in false teaching because they think their way of doing good is better than the way that God gives.

A wise man once told me that when we TRY to do good we get in the way of GOD doing good.

God can do great things and we can not. We're not called to save people but to lead people. GOD saves people and we lead people. GOD judges people and we judge sin (even though I question even that).

You are indeed called to righteous judgment. You couldn't make a decision without doing so.

The only thing we should mimic and the only thing we're CALLED to mimic is God's love and forgiveness. Everything else we can only determine through vast generalization and assumption.

Now you know that's not true. By your own statement , you're testifying that we somehow have an understanding that we are to mimic God's love and forgiveness. If you can deduce this, why is everything else left to generalization and assumption?

Like I said, words mean nothing. If you SAID you were God, you'd just be crazy. People attempt to make themselves equal to God when they think they are wise enough and worthy enough to perform God's job.

While others are oblivious to what God has called the Christian to do.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

Your witness is affected by the degree to which you live in obedience after accepting Christ. And at no point in His Word does God even hint at there haven been a genuine salvation where someone is continuing in unrepentant sin.

The person indwelled by the Holy Spirit will care about his witness.



That's a cop out and a sin itself. You're going to be disobedient and not do what God says to do just because you want to be politically correct and not call sin that which He calls sin.



I know plenty of folks mired in false teaching because they think their way of doing good is better than the way that God gives.

A wise man once told me that when we TRY to do good we get in the way of GOD doing good.




You are indeed called to righteous judgment. You couldn't make a decision without doing so.



Now you know that's not true. By your own statement , you're testifying that we somehow have an understanding that we are to mimic God's love and forgiveness. If you can deduce this, why is everything else left to generalization and assumption?



While others are oblivious to what God has called the Christian to do.

Except no where does it say you need to ask for forgiveness for individual sins. No where does it say otherwise anyway. Why is it you can assume things if I can't?

No it's true. If you pay attention to only one sin you become guilty of another. But if you keep your mind OFF of sin and concentrate on what is (relatively) good, you will be able to avoid it far better. Also, not paying mind to sin is not a sin.

I'm not saying my way is better and I'd suggest stop putting those words in my mouth. I'm saying that doing God and using gifts God has given to you WITHOUT paying attention to your sin works way better than teaching only sin and concentrating on only sin.

And you're still going to have to try. No where does it say God will do it for you.

You're called to judge your own choices sure but you shouldn't have to do any conscious judgment of it. And you're NEVER called to judge others. In fact, the Bible condemns this.

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37

God only calls us to forgive and love. It's in the Bible. I'll look up the verse for you.

"And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins." (Mark 11:25)

"Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." (Ephesians 4:32)

Can you find a verse saying we should mimic God's job in any other way?

Sounds like you're the one oblivious to that. That or cherry picking the Bible is just okay when you do it.

 

[jad123]

No, you have your definitions mixed up. You have to accept someones sin to accept them. Obviously their sin exists.

What you don't have to do is love their sin to love them and no one is asking you to do that. Really, I'd just not bring attention to it.

Sorry, I do not necessarily agree with this. We are told to hate that which is evil, not to accept it....

Romans 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

I am not saying that we should treat people horribly. But we are not called to accept their sins. We are called to hold our brothers and sisters accountable and to rebuke sin.

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. (Notice it says if he repents to forgive him)

James 5: 19,20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

When sin is rebuked because we love truth and love the souls of those who sin, we have proper love. The person who objects is the one who has misplaced love.

 

[Zaac]

Except no where does it say you need to ask for forgiveness for individual sins. No where does it say otherwise anyway. Why is it you can assume things if I can't?

I didn't say that Christians need to ask for forgiveness of sin, and I didn't say that God's Word said that.

If you are a Christian, the Bible says “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” 1 John 1:9

Part of our relationship with Christ is confessing our sins. To confess a sin, you have to be in agreement that it is sin. This is why we are being sanctified into His image. As we confess our sin and align ourselves with Him and no longer commit the same sin again and again, we are made more like Him.

No it's true. If you pay attention to only one sin you become guilty of another. But if you keep your mind OFF of sin and concentrate on what is (relatively) good, you will be able to avoid it far better. Also, not paying mind to sin is not a sin.

But we are to confess ALL of our sins. And if someone has pointed it out to you, theres even less of an excuse to not confess it.

I'm not saying my way is better and I'd suggest stop putting those words in my mouth. I'm saying that doing God and using gifts God has given to you WITHOUT paying attention to your sin works way better than teaching only sin and concentrating on only sin.

It's not an issue of your way being better. It's an issue of your way not being GOD's way.

You're called to judge your own choices sure but you shouldn't have to do any conscious judgment of it.

And you're NEVER called to judge others. In fact, the Bible condemns this.

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37
God only calls us to forgive and love. It's in the Bible. I'll look up the verse for you.

Biblically untrue, that is your statement that you're never called to judge others. One day I'm gonna write a book on judgment and explain this once and for all.

you do realize that there is an entire book of the Bible called Judges that gives testimony to them doing what you're saying we can't do.

Can you find a verse saying we should mimic God's job in any other way?

To which job are you referring?

 

[FaithLikeARock]

I didn't say that Christians need to ask for forgiveness of sin, and I didn't say that God's Word said that.

If you are a Christian, the Bible says “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” 1 John 1:9

Part of our relationship with Christ is confessing our sins. To confess a sin, you have to be in agreement that it is sin. This is why we are being sanctified into His image. As we confess our sin and align ourselves with Him and no longer commit the same sin again and again, we are made more like Him.



But we are to confess ALL of our sins. And if someone has pointed it out to you, theres even less of an excuse to not confess it.



It's not an issue of your way being better. It's an issue of your way not being GOD's way.







Biblically untrue, that is your statement that you're never called to judge others. One day I'm gonna write a book on judgment and explain this once and for all.

you do realize that there is an entire book of the Bible called Judges that gives testimony to them doing what you're saying we can't do.




To which job are you referring?

I found the problem. You're head is caught in the Old Testament.

The New Testament overpowers the Old. It's Christ's testament, especially the Gospel.

Also, are you saying that because Judges exist, that verse is wrong? How dare you question the words of the Bible! If that verse which is the word of Jesus Himself is possible wrong, why is it the words of Paul in the NT about homosexuality correct?

 

[FaithLikeARock]

Sorry, I do not necessarily agree with this. We are told to hate that which is evil, not to accept it....

Romans 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

I am not saying that we should treat people horribly. But we are not called to accept their sins. We are called to hold our brothers and sisters accountable and to rebuke sin.

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. (Notice it says if he repents to forgive him)

James 5: 19,20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

When sin is rebuked because we love truth and love the souls of those who sin, we have proper love. The person who objects is the one who has misplaced love.

You're obviously not understanding this:

ACCEPT IS NOT IN THE SAME FIELD. You need to accept things. If you don't you're chronically insane because to not accept mean to deny the existance of. In no way are you required to love or hate something when you accept it.

I'd have a better chance explaining this to my 1-year-old cousin. Geez.

 

[Zaac]

I found the problem. You're head is caught in the Old Testament.

The New Testament overpowers the Old. It's Christ's testament, especially the Gospel.

Good grief. Does no one understand that the OT works in conjunction with the NT?

Also, are you saying that because Judges exist, that verse is wrong? How dare you question the words of the Bible! If that verse which is the word of Jesus Himself is possible wrong, why is it the words of Paul in the NT about homosexuality correct?

DO you have a history of asking a person aquestion, and then answering it in your head and then feigning righteous indignation about the answer that YOU gave yourself that you ascribe to the person who has not answered?

My goodness. I really need to wite this book on judgment. Matthew 7:1 is probably the most oft quoted, oft taken out of context Scripture in the Bible. You COMPLETELY missed what the text is saying. Read 7:2-5.

 

[jad123]

You're obviously not understanding this:

ACCEPT IS NOT IN THE SAME FIELD. You need to accept things. If you don't you're chronically insane because to not accept mean to deny the existance of. In no way are you required to love or hate something when you accept it.

I'd have a better chance explaining this to my 1-year-old cousin. Geez.

You really are a piece of work aren't you. No need to be rude becasue it is YOU who really does not understand. Let me spell this out for you in elementary terms.

Accept:

1. to take or receive (something offered); receive with approval or favor: to accept a present; to accept a proposal.

2. to agree or consent to; accede to:

3. to respond or answer affirmatively to

You are using the word accept as it it is the word acknowledge. Get you definitions straight and leave the rudeness at home.

 

[OllieFranz]

Some of the posters are confusing acceptance for approval. You can accept what a person is without approving of what the person does.

For those of you who think homosexuality is wrong, think of it like alcoholism or addiction. You can love a person. You can accept the fact that the person is not perfect, and work around his flaws (both the real ones and those only percieved), without approving those flaws.

If you love someone who is, for example, overweight, or who gossips, you can still nag him about those flaws without saying hateful things about him as a person. Why can't you do the same for gays?

 

[jad123]

Some of the posters are confusing acceptance for approval. You can accept what a person is without approving of what the person does.

For those of you who think homosexuality is wrong, think of it like alcoholism or addiction. You can love a person. You can accept the fact that the person is not perfect, and work around his flaws (both the real ones and those only percieved), without approving those flaws.

If you love someone who is, for example, overweight, or who gossips, you can still nag him about those flaws without saying hateful things about him as a person. Why can't you do the same for gays?

Not according to the standard definition of acceptance.

 

[jad123]

You can love a person. You can accept the fact that the person is not perfect, and work around his flaws (both the real ones and those only percieved), without approving those flaws.

You can love the person and acknowledge their sin. It is likes those who acknowledge the existence of Jesus without accepting He is our savior.

 

[RMDY]

God is wise enough to pull that off. Do you have to love sin? No. But don't use it as an excuse to justify your behavior! You shouldn't HAVE to say "I love you but hate your sin" because you do it's basically reinforcing your behavior which is hateful (not you personally. I don't really recognize you personally).

Don't ever try to equal yourself to God by mimicking His behavior. God has wisdom far beyond ours and the wisest a man can become is wise enough to know he is not God.

I tell you the truth: I hate my own sin yet am commanded to love others as I would love myself.

Do you have to love sin? No. But don't use it as an excuse to justify your behavior! You shouldn't HAVE to say "I love you but hate your sin" because you do it's basically reinforcing your behavior which is hateful (not you personally. I don't really recognize you personally).

Jesus didn't command us to love sin as we would love ourselves. If I hate the sin yet do not hate the individual, it means that I desire that sin would not exist and people would.

Hating sin has nothing to do with going around making charges against individuals and rebuking them without gentleness and saying hateful things towards them in the name of "hating sin".

Your misunderstanding me.

Just because I hate my own sin yet love myself doesn't mean I hate myself because I hate the sin, do I? I hate that I've committed sins and hate that I have weaknesses that cause me to sin in such ways.

Jesus commands us to love one another as we would love ourselves.
That is why I say, if I love myself and others equally while being humble, how is it that I can hate myself and others if I hate sin?

 

[RMDY]

I don't have the intelligence to determine what is and isn't sin so I may very well accept everything as sin.

For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality
1 Thessalonians 4:3


It bothers me that I do not sanctify myself according to God's will and commit fornication, which is a weakness of mine.

Act 15:28-29 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no more burden on you*, except [for] these necessary things:
To be abstaining from [meat] sacrificed to idols and from blood and from [anything] strangled and from sexual sin. From which keeping yourselves, you* will do well. Farewell!"


LOL. I lately have had a hard time abstaining from sexual sin, but I am confessing it before you, my friends. At least I can confess it.



And likewise, because it bothers me, I am bothered when other people commit sexual sins. I do not command any of you to do anything but I point out what I believe and what the scriptures say according to what the apostles taught and according to the will of God.

 

[Leah]

In response to the OP: One thing I've finally realized about myself is that I'm not ignorant or oblivious to my own sin. So the last thing I'm going to do is be judgemental and critical of others. This is not to say that I condone sin (because I don't and never will), but that I'm in no position to judge anyone about anything. And guess what, because of this realization, it feels great to know and understand that I can actually enjoy life now. I could go on so more about this and start preaching, but won't. But know this: I'm all about going UP to God through Christ Jesus.

So from now on, whoever reads this post of mine, don't ever say to me "Take the log out of your own eye." You'd be stupid if you ever said that to me.