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owenlikesknowing

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1. Would someone who in some deluded way lived a totally immoral life - but truly thought all their immoral acts were done to honour god - would they get into heaven?

2. What do you reackon about this site

Are You a True Christian? Do You Observe the Gospel of Jesus Christ or Paganistic Traditions of Men?

look at the bottom about a true Christian?

If you think it is an incorrect list (esp the trinity bit - I found that odd...) can someone, if you were to make your own, enter heaven if they don't obey those laws?

4. Ref. question 1. If you said yes - could Muslims get into heaven?

Thanks,
Owen.
 

Criada

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1. Would someone who in some deluded way lived a totally immoral life - but truly thought all their immoral acts were done to honour god - would they get into heaven?

2. What do you reackon about this site

Are You a True Christian? Do You Observe the Gospel of Jesus Christ or Paganistic Traditions of Men?

look at the bottom about a true Christian?

If you think it is an incorrect list (esp the trinity bit - I found that odd...) can someone, if you were to make your own, enter heaven if they don't obey those laws?

4. Ref. question 1. If you said yes - could Muslims get into heaven?

Thanks,
Owen.

The Bible says that all can be saved, and 'get to heaven' through the sacrifice of Jesus.


If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.(Romans 10:9)

That's it... nothing to do with what you do or don't do, when or how you worship, or any other theological detail.:)
 
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fm107

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1. Would someone who in some deluded way lived a totally immoral life - but truly thought all their immoral acts were done to honour god - would they get into heaven?

2. What do you reackon about this site

Are You a True Christian? Do You Observe the Gospel of Jesus Christ or Paganistic Traditions of Men?

look at the bottom about a true Christian?

If you think it is an incorrect list (esp the trinity bit - I found that odd...) can someone, if you were to make your own, enter heaven if they don't obey those laws?

4. Ref. question 1. If you said yes - could Muslims get into heaven?

Thanks,
Owen.

1. That is impossible because God created us with a conscience. Everyone knows the will of God because our conscience tells us how we should act.

2. I have not read the entire link but rather skimmed over it. But yeah, I do agree with some of the bits at the bottom except for:

a) worshipping on a Sunday - a Christian should always be worshipping God every single day of their lives. I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter etc but there are Christians who do - mostly because they are ignorant but this does not mean they will go to Hell but they are pagan traditions as you correctly state.

b) There is a trinity and the Holy Spirit is a part of that trinity. The Holy Spirit HAS to be a person as he is a comforter and councilor. The Holy Spirit also speaks...

Hebrews 3:7
So, as the Holy Spirit says:

c) Both believers and non believers have a soul. That soul can be destroyed by God.

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

But notice the word choice - "can." Both a non believer and believer will live forever one forever in Hell the other forever in God's glory.

d) Jesus DID ascend to Heaven.

Acts 1:10-11
They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

4. No they cannot.

Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
 
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ebia

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1. Would someone who in some deluded way lived a totally immoral life - but truly thought all their immoral acts were done to honour god - would they get into heaven?
The Kingdom of God is not an arbitrary reward for believing/doing enough of the right stuff to get a 'pass' grade.

2. What do you reackon about this site
A not uncommon cultic mix of truths, half truths and downright distortions.
If you think it is an incorrect list (esp the trinity bit - I found that odd...) can someone, if you were to make your own, enter heaven if they don't obey those laws?
The premise of the question is too far off what it's all about to answer effectively.
 
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O

owenlikesknowing

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fm107 - people who do abide by that list - can they get into heaven?

Also ref point 1. Peoples consciousness' differ. Someone who is crazy/ someone who is indoctrinated in a certain way could feel emotions over certain things differently.

ebia -

The Kingdom of God is not an arbitrary reward for believing/doing enough of the right stuff to get a 'pass' grade.

Thats my point! My first question implied this.

Could someone who abided by this list and truly thought that they were doing gods will get into heaven - surely they could?

Thanks,
Owen.
 
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ebia

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Could someone who abided by this list and truly thought that they were doing gods will get into heaven - surely they could?
(Fortunately) that's not my call to make.
 
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fm107

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fm107 - people who do abide by that list - can they get into heaven?
Also ref point 1. Peoples consciousness' differ. Someone who is crazy/ someone who is indoctrinated in a certain way could feel emotions over certain things differently.

ebia -



Thats my point! My first question implied this.

Could someone who abided by this list and truly thought that they were doing gods will get into heaven - surely they could?

Thanks,
Owen.

That's correct, people's consciences differ on certain issues, but not the major ones e.g. murder, everyone knows it is wrong.

There are only a few things you need to do to get into Heaven:

1. Believe in God and his son the Lord Jesus and the work he has done i.e. dying on the cross.
2. Repent for your sins with a truly repentant heart - this can only be done if you are affected by what Jesus has done for you, it also shows your love for God as when you are repenting you are saying to God, I want to do things your way.

The Lord Jesus says:

John 14:15
"If you love me, you will obey what I command."


Going back to the issue of doctrines, some - not most will affect a person and whether they'll get into Heaven. I don't know every doctrine out there, my guess is there are some doctrines which are way off.

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.

As you can see some doctrine is actually destructive. If you end up following a doctrine which denies the sovereign Lord Jesus then this would cancel out no.1 and therefore mean destruction.
 
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O

owenlikesknowing

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but not the major ones e.g. murder, everyone knows it is wrong

the abortion debate...

There are only a few things you need to do to get into Heaven:

1. Believe in God and his son the Lord Jesus and the work he has done i.e. dying on the cross.
2. Repent for your sins with a truly repentant heart - this can only be done if you are affected by what Jesus has done for you, it also shows your love for God as when you are repenting you are saying to God, I want to do things your way.

So someone committing bad acts in God's name is still getting in if he believes in Jesus and repents for doing good acts which he thinks are bad? (mind twisting)

You may say such a person does not occur - but many different Christians have conflicting views in moral debates. Indeed a lot of the things on that list you appear to have disagreed with.

Ill put it like this - you have an abortionist who believes in god and jesus as his son, sees young would-be mothers all around the world as going to suffer for having kids, and sees it as gods mission for her to abort those kiddies. At the end of the day she repents for not getting around to aborting more kids (among other things). Devotes her life to aborting kids, and dies.

Surely she gets in?

Thanks,
Owen.

Edit: sorry didnt read the last part of your reply -

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.

As you can see some doctrine is actually destructive. If you end up following a doctrine which denies the sovereign Lord Jesus then this would cancel out no.1 and therefore mean destruction.

How do you know you don't follow a destructive, heretical doctrine yourself - If you are certain that you don't - do those that do follow one not getting into heaven?

Thanks,
Owen.
 
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traditionalist

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Getting into heaven has nothing to do with the acts that you perform on earth. SO maybe stop asking these types of questions because yo will continue to get the same answers, You do not recieve a pass grade at the pearly gates.

"Oh, Dear Johnny, you only scored a 49%, unlucky. Shouldnt have had those bad thoughts watching late night television"

SO if an abortion Clinic bomber truly believes in Christ, truly repents for ALL there sins and offers them to Christ to take. Then yes; they will be recieved in Heaven. Someone who strives to live a good life, who is a good person does not commit to God or to Jesus still gets the same invite to Heaven; but they reject it.

Does this seem fair? Its not supposed to be, because the Gift of Grace is a GIFT. and gifts are not supposed to be fair (apart from chris cringles).

The point is EVERYONE has been offered this Grace, you too, and its up to us whether we accept it.
 
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fm107

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Abortion is wrong, every person knows this. Why do you think so many people take such a long time to think whether or not to abort? They are wrestling with their consciences aren't they.

Secondly, abortion itself in...I’m going to say most cases (that's what I honestly believe) is to hide sin e.g. pre-martial sex or affairs.

I know for sure I haven't followed any wrong doctrines as ALL my beliefs are based strictly on the bible.

Take the doctrine of Catholics praying to Mary, no where in the bible does it say pray to Mary, rather Jesus taught us who to pray to - God the Father.

Matthew 6:9-13
“This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.’

I use this as an example and as you can see them doing this contradicts the bible. I hope this answers you question.
 
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O

owenlikesknowing

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Getting into heaven has nothing to do with the acts that you perform on earth. SO maybe stop asking these types of questions because yo will continue to get the same answers, You do not recieve a pass grade at the pearly gates.

Yea I am fullly aware of this... as I keep saying - I was wondering could an immoral person get into heaven - I implied nothing further like the injustice of the system.

SO if an abortion Clinic bomber truly believes in Christ, truly repents for ALL there sins and offers them to Christ to take. Then yes; they will be recieved in Heaven.

THANK you :) What I have been looking for :)

Abortion is wrong, every person knows this.

Ohhhh so very untrue. But we shall have to agree to differ here :) I don't want to get into an argument about it. :)

I know for sure I haven't followed any wrong doctrines as ALL my beliefs are based strictly on the bible

Hm many people claim this too - but believe differently to you - is it not all down to interpretation.?

Thanks guys cleaned up that point for me,
Owen.
 
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ebia

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Yea I am fullly aware of this... as I keep saying - I was wondering could an immoral person get into heaven - I implied nothing further like the injustice of the system.
A person who hasn't been completely transformed is incompatible with the fullness of the Kingdom of God. But that applies to all of us; salvation is about being made fit for the Kingdom, rather than getting into the Kingdom because we are fit for it.
 
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Mela Monkey

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Thats my point! My first question implied this.

Could someone who abided by this list and truly thought that they were doing gods will get into heaven - surely they could?

Thanks,
Owen.

The only answer I have to this is:

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

and

Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and done many wonders in your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew your; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!"
 
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sk8Joyful

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the abortion debate...

you have an abortionist who believes in god and jesus as his son,
sees young would-be mothers all around the world as going to suffer for having kids,
and sees it as gods mission for her to abort those kiddies.

Surely she gets into heaven?

Thanks, Owen.
even Satan believes in GOD/Christ; but still he rebels...

You were already told the basic requirement for Heaven,
is to "Welcome & Accept GOD/Christ as your personal :angel: SAVIOR"
All such souls, in our mind, then live PRO-life...
and realize that each child is Heaven's blessing...

'she' going to heaven, isn't your real question; rather it's
you personally saved, & living :thumbsup: PRO-life... to PRAISE :clap: GOD
 
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rosenherman

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even Satan believes in GOD/Christ; but still he rebels...

You were already told the basic requirement for Heaven,
is to "Welcome & Accept GOD/Christ as your personal :angel: SAVIOR"
All such souls, in our mind, then live PRO-life...
and realize that each child is Heaven's blessing...

'she' going to heaven, isn't your real question; rather it's
you personally saved, & living :thumbsup: PRO-life... to PRAISE :clap: GOD
You are right. According to Paul: If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.(Romans 10:9).

You are wrong. You needn't be pro-life, or left-handed, red-headed or an umbrella maker.

There are some active, devoted Christians who are virulently pro-abortion. That is their choice and it has nothing to do with whether they are saved or not. They are saved.
 
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drich0150

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1. Would someone who in some deluded way lived a totally immoral life - but truly thought all their immoral acts were done to honour god - would they get into heaven?

How could one live a immoral life if they were truly honoring God? The key to you question is the delusion if one is duluded then it is their benfit that they serve and not that of God.

2. What do you reackon about this site

Paul says it better than I ever could in Romans 14

Romans 14

The Weak and the Strong

1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. 22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
 
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Albion

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1. Would someone who in some deluded way lived a totally immoral life - but truly thought all their immoral acts were done to honour god - would they get into heaven?

As you've worded it, probably not. You've asked the question in a way that totally avoids any consideration of the reason for any of us being saved--Faith.


2. What do you reackon about this site

Are You a True Christian? Do You Observe the Gospel of Jesus Christ or Paganistic Traditions of Men?

look at the bottom about a true Christian?

From the POV of mainstream and historic Christianity, there are a lot of errors on that page. To anyone who is serious about "exploring Christianity," it has to be said that that site's views are not represenatitive of Christianity's beliefs.
 
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98cwitr

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dont agree with the Easter bit...according to a variety of sources it is still celebrated as instructed per 1 Corth. 5:7 for the day after passover. I definitely don't celebrate xmas, Sunday is not the Sabbath (but the Sabbath was made for man anyway so it doesn't really matter), 3 in 1? more like 3 in infinity. If you are a true christian then you DEFINITELY have an immortal soul: BibleGateway - Quick search: immortal and the rest I agree with. A bit unsure on "when we go to heaven bit"
 
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