Quick Question in Regards to Hell

disciple Clint

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Well, yes, that does have to be faced. What I was saying with that comment you referred to was that the answer is sufficiently uncertain that there are, among Christians, those who have one answer and are sure of it, while there are others that have a different one and are equally sure of it.

That reality seems like something that is worth pointing out to any inquirer before we begin to discuss the reasons for believing one way or the other. :)
As I said I agree with your response. It just causes me to consider God's view may be much more limited. I do not know how we resolve it beyond that since we cannot know the mind of God and there are many ways to view Scripture.
 
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setst777

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As I said I agree with your response. It just causes me to consider God's view may be much more limited. I do not know how we resolve it beyond that since we cannot know the mind of God and there are many ways to view Scripture.

The New Testament is a study and instruction on The Faith of the Gospel. Once we understand how the New Testament itself describes the faith that God accepts to be saved, that will go a long way in understanding God's View in contrast to the views of what people think.

Blessings
 
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setst777

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No one gets in to heaven on the basis of what they do. Jesus is the sole Way into God's kingdom. (John 14:6; Acts 4:12) It's him plus nothing. If you have the Son, you have eternal life (1 John 5:11) and no sin can undo this.

What does Scripture mean, in context, when it states:

"have the Son?"
 
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disciple Clint

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The New Testament is a study and instruction on The Faith of the Gospel. Once we understand how the New Testament itself describes the faith that God accepts to be saved, that will go a long way in understanding God's View in contrast to the views of what people think.

Blessings
I love your thought but....pick a verse, any verse, and then ask on this forum what that verse means. when you see the results you get you will immediately understand what we are discussing.
 
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setst777

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I love your thought but....pick a verse, any verse, and then ask on this forum what that verse means. when you see the results you get you will immediately understand what we are discussing.

You are right, people have their views, sometimes despite the context of Scripture, and they will defend their views tooth and nail, even if they are wrong.
 
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setst777

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It means "If you are one of His (disciples)...."

Then you will have eternal life.

It's because of Him, not of ourselves, so it is said that you "have the Son (of God)."

Yes, to have the Son, we are to be His disciples.

To be His disciples is the faith of the Gospel. To be His disciple is to follow Lord Jesus into a holy life of righteousness and love, just as Lord Jesus instructs us by His parables, commands, instruction, and by His own life as our example.

Salvation is not of ourselves, it is the gracious gift of God received by faith in Lord Jesus.

John 3:16

Romans 5:1-2
(WEB) 1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

Romans 1:16-17 (WEB) 16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, because it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first, and also for the Greek. 17 For in it is revealed God’s righteousness from faith to faith. As it is written, “But the righteous shall live by faith.” [Habakkuk 2:4]

1 Peter 1:5 (KJV) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Blessings.
 
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Albion

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Yes, to have the Son, we are to be His disciples.

To be His disciples is the faith of the Gospel. To be His disciple is to follow Lord Jesus into a holy life of righteousness and love, just as Lord Jesus instructs us by His parables, commands, instruction, and by His own life as our example.
We just have to be careful when describing this matter not to make it sound as though salvation comes as a consequence of us becoming perfect after conversion.

But of course being committed to a changed lifestyle and doing our best to adhere to Our Lord's teachings is another matter. :)
 
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setst777

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We just have to be careful when describing this matter not to make it sound as though salvation comes as a consequence of us becoming perfect after conversion.

But of course being committed to a changed lifestyle and doing our best to adhere to Our Lord's teachings is another matter. :)

Yes, I agree, perfect holiness is the aim of a true faith in Lord Jesus, but God does provide forgiveness for a reason - which is because a Christian will likely sin in thought, word, and deed, although committing sin should never be our intention.

1 John 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not tell the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

John 15:8-10 (WEB)
8 “In this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; and so you will be my disciples. 9 Even as the Father has loved me, I also have loved you. Remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain in his love.

As we sanctify ourselves to God by faith, following Lord Jesus, will God forgives our sins, and accredits righteousness to us.

1 John 2:1-6 (WEB)
2 My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have a Counselor with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous. 2 And he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.
3 This is how we know that we know him: if we keep his commandments. 4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him. 5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word. This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.

Romans 6:21-22 (WEB) 21 What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become servants of God, you have your fruit of sanctification and the result is eternal life.

James 1:12 (WEB) 12 Blessed is a person who endures temptation, for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to those who love him.

Hebrews 12:14-17 (WEB)
14 Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord, 15 looking carefully lest there be any man who falls short of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and many be defiled by it, 16 lest there be any sexually immoral person, or profane person, like Esau, who sold his birthright for one meal. 17 For you know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for a change of mind though he sought it diligently with tears.
 
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aiki

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What does Scripture mean, in context, when it states:

"have the Son?"

1 John 5:10-13
10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.
11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
 
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setst777

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1 John 5:10-13
10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.
11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

According to the context of 1 John 5, what does "believes in the Son" or "has the Son" mean?
 
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aiki

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According to the context of 1 John 5, what does "believes in the Son" or "has the Son" mean?

The "context," I think, entails the entire letter John wrote - and the greater context of the entirety of Scripture that applies to what it means to "have the Son." The believer has the Son in the Person of the Holy Spirit, the "Spirit of Christ" he is called in Romans 8:9, who comes to indwell a person when they place their trust in Christ as their Saviour and Lord. John remarks on this in chapter 4 of his first epistle:

1 John 4:13
13 By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.


To have the Son is to have the Holy Spirit living within:

Titus 3:5-7
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


Romans 8:9-11
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.


It is important to note that when a person becomes a temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 3:16), they not only possess the Spirit but are possessed by him. He comes to live within a person as the Ruler, as King, of their life. They are his temple, his vessel, to do with as he pleases. To have the Son, then, is not ultimately a matter of possessing God but of becoming His possession.

2 Timothy 2:21
21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.


1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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If a person (who is born again) purposely committed a sin before they died, would they go to hell?

*Bonus question: what if the sin this person purposely committed resulted in their death? Would they go to hell?
It is not as cut and dry as that. Sin leads to death, it does not cause it. As an example, David in the bible committed some rather terrible sins, yet God had mercy on him. The same thing is the case with those who have the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit does help to prevent sin, but the Holy Spirit does not eliminate it. The bible says "if we say we have no sin the truth is not in us", we all have some sin even with the Holy Spirit. The way I described it to my son last night is like a bottle floating in water if we add metal weights to it it will get heavier and eventually sink beneath the waves. The metal weights are our sin. The more sin we add to our lives the harder it is to maintain salvation. The bible says that sin is blinding, it closes our eyes to the truth. The fact is that the cross covers our lifetime of sins, "as it is appointed for man to die once so Christ died once for sin". We can turn from sin at any point in our life.
 
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setst777

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The "context," I think, entails the entire letter John wrote - and the greater context of the entirety of Scripture that applies to what it means to "have the Son." The believer has the Son in the Person of the Holy Spirit, the "Spirit of Christ" he is called in Romans 8:9, who comes to indwell a person when they place their trust in Christ as their Saviour and Lord. John remarks on this in chapter 4 of his first epistle:

1 John 4:13
13 By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

Yes, true. As you say, when we believe in Lord Jesus, we receive His Spirit to give us life (Romans 8:9-10; John 7:37-39).

What does it mean to believe in the Son, so we may have His Spirit living in us?

To have the Son is to have the Holy Spirit living within

Yes, true. The Spirit living in us by faith are the ones who have the Son. Describe that faith by which we receive the Spirit.

It is important to note that when a person becomes a temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 3:16), they not only possess the Spirit but are possessed by him. He comes to live within a person as the Ruler, as King, of their life. They are his temple, his vessel, to do with as he pleases. To have the Son, then, is not ultimately a matter of possessing God but of becoming His possession.

Are you saying that the work of the Spirit is irresistible in those who receive the Spirit by faith?

If so, show me Scriptures which teach what you are saying.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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It is not as cut and dry as that. Sin leads to death, it does not cause it. As an example, David in the bible committed some rather terrible sins, yet God had mercy on him. The same thing is the case with those who have the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit does help to prevent sin, but the Holy Spirit does not eliminate it. The bible says "if we say we have no sin the truth is not in us", we all have some sin even with the Holy Spirit. The way I described it to my son last night is like a bottle floating in water if we add metal weights to it it will get heavier and eventually sink beneath the waves. The metal weights are our sin. The more sin we add to our lives the harder it is to maintain salvation. The bible says that sin is blinding, it closes our eyes to the truth. The fact is that the cross covers our lifetime of sins, "as it is appointed for man to die once so Christ died once for sin". We can turn from sin at any point in our life.
Bottle is a good illustration. Another is painting your heart with a stroke of black paint with every sin. After a time, it’s mostly black. One has quenched the holy spirit out.
 
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coffee4u

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If a person (who is born again) purposely committed a sin before they died, would they go to hell?

No. People don't go to hell based upon what sins they committed, they go to hell because they are sinners who don't want Jesus to save them. If going to heaven or hell were based on what sins a person committed it would then be about our own goodness our own striving. No one is good enough to go to heaven on their own merits even if they were the most pious person who committed no sin that anyone could ever see-they would still be sinners.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.


*Bonus question: what if the sin this person purposely committed resulted in their death? Would they go to hell?
Killing yourself by driving drunk or killing yourself by committing suicide.

Same answer. Going to heaven is not based on any goodness found in us. It is through Jesus alone.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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No. People don't go to hell based upon what sins they committed, they go to hell because they are sinners who don't want Jesus to save them. If going to heaven or hell were based on what sins a person committed it would then be about our own goodness our own striving. No one is good enough to go to heaven on their own merits even if they were the most pious person who committed no sin that anyone could ever see-they would still be sinners.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.




Same answer. Going to heaven is not based on any goodness found in us. It is through Jesus alone.
Rev 20:12
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

You might want to rethink your position. And don’t get mad at me. I only copied and pasted the scripture, I didn’t write it.

And in case you think you’ve escaped judgment altogether,

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
 
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coffee4u

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Rev 20:12
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

You might want to rethink your position. And don’t get mad at me. I only copied and pasted the scripture, I didn’t write it.

And in case you think you’ve escaped judgment altogether,

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

That has nothing to do with what I just posted, which was answering the OP questions.

Nobody gets to heaven by being good because we are not good.

If you want a discussion about judgment feel free to post a new thread, but since it is 11:48pm I am not up for that right now.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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That has nothing to do with what I just posted, which was answering the OP questions.

Nobody gets to heaven by being good because we are not good.

If you want a discussion about judgment feel free to post a new thread, but since it is 11:48pm I am not up for that right now.
I am always open to any scripture on any topic but I realize not everyone is. Won’t pursue any further.
 
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