Quick list of scripture.

[Zecryphon]

there was not an accusation, there was a statement of fact.

Then she'll have no problem proving her statement about my sin as a fact and you're involvement here will no longer be necessary.

I'm sorry you have so much trouble accepting that you have sin in your life.

Nice projection. I never said anything of the sort. Stick to what I say and you'll fare much better in this dialogue.

Should I prove that you have sin in your life now? I can use your own precious book to do so.

This issue has nothing to do with you, so why are you getting involved? That's rather curious. Okay, go to the scriptures and tell me what specific sin I have committed. The scriptures tend to be very general in their accusations against humanity. They simply say, 'all have sinned,' and 'all have fallen short of the glory of God', they don't say what Zecryphon's specific sin is, but hey, since you think you can find which sin Lynn is specifically referring to in reference to me in the scriptures, knock yourself out. All I'm doing is asking her to support her assertion or withdraw it. She can of course ignore my request also. I don't know why my request has put such a bee in your bonnet, then again I don't really care.


Originally Posted by zecryphon

If she is going to say that she hates my sin, then the burden of proof is upon her to back up her statement as to what sin I have committed.
​

Here how about I prove it for her..."all have sinned and all fall short of the glory of God" happy now?

No, I'm not and that hardly supports Lynn's accusation against me. She said she hated my sin, which sin? That verse does not tell me or anybody else which specific sin it is that Lynn is referring to. You fail to prove her assertion.

Originally Posted by zecryphon

I am not implying anything about myself or God. What's the current market price on red herring? I am simply asking her to support her statement or retract it.
​

I honestly don't care what you were trying to imply I am just very tierd of hearing you whine..[/quote

This post proves otherwise. You obviously do care. I have been very courteous in this thread and expect you to be as well.

"red herring" Are you serious?lol You who took one tiny statement and turned Lynn and that statement into the topic of the thread? bahah

I have done no such thing. You're the one derailing this thread by turning one little request into a debatable topic and flaming me in the process.

Originally Posted by zecryphon

Not according to what is written in this forum. We are to hate all sin except same-sex sex.
​

It is only your opinion that same-sex is sin, many do not agree with you. How long have you had to either prove that or retract it...?

Okay fine, it's my opinion. I can provide support for my opinion. Lynn can't do that. In fact, your presence here, speaking on her behalf proves that. Your presence here tells me that you think she's so incapable of proving her statement on her own, that you have to step in and try to do it for her.


Originally Posted by zecryphon

That one is apparently off limits. We have to approve of that one or suffer the insults and accusations of the pro-gay crowd. Would you like examples of this behavior from them? I've seen some real doozies.
​

Why would I need examples of people getting upset? I have seen what others on this forum say to them and they have every right. Oh I get it....=RED HERRING you were wondering the price, must be pretty cheap..

Oh, I get it now. The rules of this forum actually don't matter. People can flame each other left and right and all they have to do to justify this behavior is point to the bad behavior of other people? Are you serious with this? I'll keep this in mind the next time a mod tries to bust me for flaming or baiting or anything else they can think of.


Originally Posted by zecryphon

But she didn't say it to anyone, she said it to me.
​

So what, it would have applied to anyone...get over it.

Who do you think you are to tell me what to do? Are you a mod? I don't see a little letter next to your name. I haven't seen you put on a little hat. As I see it, you have no authority over me and I will continue to do as I see fit on this forum, which so far has been in compliance with all the rules and regulations. Can't say the same for you. If you don't wanna read my posts, that's easily handled, put me on ignore.


Originally Posted by zecryphon

All I'm doing is asking her to back up her statement, which is not unreasonable in a debate forum.
​

I already backed it up from your life instruction manual.

Actually, no you didn't. That verse does not specifically address the sin that Zecryphon committed to which Lynn was referring. That verse speaks of people in general. Her comment was specifically aimed at me, so her evidence should be specifically aimed at me as well.

Originally Posted by zecryphon

I must have committed some sin that she knows about and therefore has decided that she hates.
​

That's your assumption.

Whatever you need to tell yourself.


Originally Posted by zecryphon

Her proof of my sin is supposed to be found in a post that had nothing to do with me as support for an accusation she made against me? Hardly proof of any sin I've committed.
​

The whole thing stemmed from this accusation you made about ALL liberals and her..

That's just Lynn showing the "love" that liberals talk so much about but rarely ever extend to those with whom they disagree.
​

Now who's making assumptions? Did you write the post? Were you inside Lynn's head when she typed it? Can you read her mind? Don't think so. So you have no idea what she was referring to. I can back up that statement with examples. Neither you nor Lynn can back up the statement in question.
​

Apparently you think it okay to accuse liberals of rarely extending love to those whom they disagree with, a blanket statement/accusation without proof but expect differently from others..

I've seen it. Would you like proof now? Just how much do you wish to derail this thread? Here's a little proof for you. Post # 65 contains a fragment of a post that Lynn made to me. I can't find the origiinal post in that thread which was much worse than what's contained here. Maybe that thread got cleaned up. I don't know. As you can see, I was being very civil and did nothing to deserve the comments Lynn made to me.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7244626&page=7


Originally Posted by zecryphon

No, she either supports her statement or she retracts it. She's has a choice here. There is no baiting or goading going on here, that's just your ineterpretation, which is not binding upon me in any way. I can not force anyone to break the rules of this forum.
​

Didn't say you could force it, but you can certainly goad someone, bait someone and harass someone. She gave an answer in post 28 which she has directed you to once already...Enough with the harassment. I hope she tells you to stop just one time and you don't...

Ooooh, tell me that's threat. Then what? Gonna report me? Good luck finding a valid rule violation on my part.

Originally Posted by zecryphon

We all know what they are, how we post to each other is not determined by other people's posts.
​

a response is not determined or based on a statement? Are you serious? Than how come you can't let go man? Your posts have certainly been based on one statement from lynn ...

You're taking my statement out of context. I was referring to people who flame other people and break the rules of this site. If someone flames me, it's not because I baited them into doing so, it's because that's who they are and that's how they communicate. You're a perfect example of this. I said nothing in my previous post that would cause you to flame me and yet you have. Your behavior has nothing to do with me or any "baiting" or "goading." It's just a part of who you are.

Originally Posted by zecryphon

Pointing to the bad behavior of others is never a good way to justify our own. So why are you trying to make me responsible for her future bad behavior, if it should in fact occur?
​

I didn't, why do you jump to false conclusions so quickly?

You made the assertion that I was "goading" her into a situation that could result in a possible rule violation by her. The conclusion is hardly false.

 

[Miracle Storm]

okay seriously thick.
Most of this I have already answered and I'm not going to do it again.

Then she'll have no problem proving her statement about my sin as a fact and you're involvement here will no longer be necessary.

Oh zecry, I feel so special that you think my involvement is needed if she don't answer you...

Nice projection. I never said anything of the sort. Stick to what I say and you'll fare much better in this dialogue.

I stated the truth. I am not interested in dialogue with you. I told you why I responded to you and it is because of your incessant whining demands.

This issue has nothing to do with you, so why are you getting involved? That's rather curious.

I have already answered this.

Yes it does have to do with me you post where I have to read it if I want to read other people's post that have sensible dialogue and I don't use the ignore feature..*blah*

Okay, go to the scriptures and tell me what specific sin I have committed. The scriptures tend to be very general in their accusations against humanity. They simply say, 'all have sinned,' and 'all have fallen short of the glory of God', they don't say what Zecryphon's specific sin is, but hey, since you think you can find which sin Lynn is specifically referring to in reference to me in the scriptures, knock yourself out.

james 2:10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

All I'm doing is asking her to support her assertion or withdraw it. She can of course ignore my request also. I don't know why my request has put such a bee in your bonnet, then again I don't really care.

If you don't care then why have you went on and on and on...?

This post proves otherwise. You obviously do care. I have been very courteous in this thread and expect you to be as well.

I have done no such thing. You're the one derailing this thread by turning one little request into a debatable topic and flaming me in the process.

oh lol I have not, let me guess you have tried to get me on the "whining" part for flaming...
...isn't it ironic, don't cha think..?

Okay fine, it's my opinion. I can provide support for my opinion. Lynn can't do that. In fact, your presence here, speaking on her behalf proves that. Your presence here tells me that you think she's so incapable of proving her statement on her own, that you have to step in and try to do it for her.

False assumptions yet again..
If I had to guess why she hasn't posted here, and she can correct me if I am wrong...But you are not worth her time and effort..
nor mine, but I was bored and thought it might be entertaining.



I'm sorry you have probably noticed I didn't respond to the rest of your post. As all that needed to be said has been even something from scripture just for your benefit.
Plus I know how you are with the report button, so I better get while the gettin' is good.

 

[Zecryphon]

Oh zecry, I feel so special that you think my involvement is needed if she don't answer you...

She's ignoring me, which she is free to do. You're here interfering on your own.

Originally Posted by zecryphon

Nice projection. I never said anything of the sort. Stick to what I say and you'll fare much better in this dialogue.
​

I stated the truth. I am not interested in dialogue with you.

Your continued posts prove otherwise.

I told you why I responded to you and it is because of your incessant whining demands.

So put me on ignore.

Originally posted by Zecryphon
Yes it does have to do with me you post where I have to read it if I want to read other people's post that have sensible dialogue and I don't use the ignore feature..*blah*

If my dialogue is so non-sensible, why bother responding?


Originally Posted by zecryphon

Okay, go to the scriptures and tell me what specific sin I have committed. The scriptures tend to be very general in their accusations against humanity. They simply say, 'all have sinned,' and 'all have fallen short of the glory of God', they don't say what Zecryphon's specific sin is, but hey, since you think you can find which sin Lynn is specifically referring to in reference to me in the scriptures, knock yourself out.
​

james 2:10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Nope. Still doesn't answer the question as to what sin I've committed. We'll move on as you apparently don't understand the question and will continue to fail to produce an answer to the question posed.



Originally Posted by zecryphon

All I'm doing is asking her to support her assertion or withdraw it. She can of course ignore my request also. I don't know why my request has put such a bee in your bonnet, then again I don't really care.
​

If you don't care then why have you went on and on and on...?

I didn't go on and on. I made a simple request. We're where we're at now because you made a big deal out of a small request.

I have done no such thing. You're the one derailing this thread by turning one little request into a debatable topic and flaming me in the process.
​

oh lol I have not, let me guess you have tried to get me on the "whining" part for flaming...

I haven't reported you or anybody else. If you got reported it wasn't by me.

Originally Posted by zecryphon

Okay fine, it's my opinion. I can provide support for my opinion. Lynn can't do that. In fact, your presence here, speaking on her behalf proves that. Your presence here tells me that you think she's so incapable of proving her statement on her own, that you have to step in and try to do it for her.
​

False assumptions yet again..
If I had to guess why she hasn't posted here, and she can correct me if I am wrong...But you are not worth her time and effort..
nor mine, but I was bored and thought it might be entertaining.

Irrelevant statements regarding the issue at hand. Address the post not the poster.

I'm sorry you have probably noticed I didn't respond to the rest of your post. As all that needed to be said has been even something from scripture just for your benefit.
Plus I know how you are with the report button, so I better get while the gettin' is good.

You bear false witness about me. I don't see how you posting scripture in an attempt to prove Lynn's accuastion benefits me. I have not reported you as reporting people doesn't do any good anyway.

 

[Miracle Storm]

There you got the last word, I'll even let you get another one in cause I'm sure you will want to have a response to this...as the very last word.

But as far as this topic goes I have answered you sufficiently, now I ask you not to address me any further regarding this subject...(except that very last word)
thanks.

 

[Unbroken]

I love you but I hate your sin.

And yet if we Fundies say the same thing, you specifically call us liars.

 

[JohnT]

Why is it that many of these threads degenerate into a reciprocating ad hominem hissy fit???

Those who take the side of the Bible have to remember this:

Hebrews 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
​

Whenever you start brandishing a sword, people nearby are not going to play pat-a-cake especially if they do not like the sword discerning the hearts and intentions of others. The sword is the Word of God, and it condemns soundly those who wish to deny its plain truths.

And while it condemns, you must remember that the other edge of the sword leads to salvation. That is the ultimate aim of apologetics, not to win arguments.

Therefore I urge you to rise above the banal, futile arguments of those who are deceived, and like an ambassador, present the truth, letting it speak for itself.

As Truman once said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

 

[Texas Lynn]

The finger might just be the Holy Spirit pointing you away from destruction. That's what many of us believe anyway. We are benevolent like firemen. We can't stop you from playing with matches, but we can tell you it's the wrong thing to do and hope you finally get it someday.

So it's said, but trying to point others away from love seems to be superbly arrogant.

 

[Texas Lynn]

And yet if we Fundies say the same thing, you specifically call us liars.

Do you know what irony is?

 

[Unbroken]

Do you know what irony is?

Do you know what hypocracy is?

I'm sure you do, you just can't understand it.

 

[BreadAlone]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------​

Mod Hat On​

​

Mod Hat Post:​

How about we knock off the bickering and rudeness??
Show a little civility, folks.​

Mod Hat Off​

-----------------------------------------------------------------------​

 

[Zecryphon]

Why is it that many of these threads degenerate into a reciprocating ad hominem hissy fit???

Those who take the side of the Bible have to remember this:

Hebrews 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
​

Whenever you start brandishing a sword, people nearby are not going to play pat-a-cake especially if they do not like the sword discerning the hearts and intentions of others. The sword is the Word of God, and it condemns soundly those who wish to deny its plain truths.

And while it condemns, you must remember that the other edge of the sword leads to salvation. That is the ultimate aim of apologetics, not to win arguments.

Therefore I urge you to rise above the banal, futile arguments of those who are deceived, and like an ambassador, present the truth, letting it speak for itself.

As Truman once said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

And while it condemns, you must remember that the other edge of the sword leads to salvation. That is the ultimate aim of apologetics, not to win arguments.

Just so I understand you, you think the ultimate aim of apologetics is to win people to Christ?

 

[JohnT]

Just so I understand you, you think the ultimate aim of apologetics is to win people to Christ?

1 Corinthians 9: 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you. 24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

Otherwise this is a foolish game of ego-inflating self gratification.

When people know the evilness of their sin and wages, then compare it with the greatness of the mercy of Christ, I can do on other than to plant seeds, or reap what others have sown.

There is NOTHING that compares with the certainty of heaven, based upon his Atonement alone.

So your answer is YESSS!!!

 

[Zecryphon]

Apologetics are a defense of the Christian faith. When you're evangelizing to someone you do not want to be defending your faith to them. What you need to use is the law and gospel, which is separate from apologetics. A simple way to do this is to take people through the 10 commandments. Now that can be a bit lengthy for a witnessing encounter so you should probably pick three or four of the 10 and ask them if they have kept these laws without fail. If they haven't, then they have a problem, because they have to stand before a holy and just judge on Judgment Day and if they are not in Christ, they are going to pay the penalty for their sins themselves. Once you show someone why they need Jesus Christ as their savior, the gospel will not appear as foolishness to them, but will indeed be received as the good news that it is.

 

[JohnT]

Originally the word apologetics is a compound Greek word.
Apo is a preposition meaning from
Logos is a noun meaning word, or in this case the Word of God.

Since the word, the Bible is all about Jesus, and his mercy, apologetics is necessarily about Jesus. Look at what Paul did on Mars Hill. That was apologetics in action.

If our aim is to win arguments, instead of telling a lost and dying world about Jesus, we are most foolish. No one who is a Christian will ever say that "superior argumentation caused me to be a Christian".

No in every incidence including Simon Greenleaf and Josh Mc Dowell it was the Word that brought the change; therefore I always to stay very Bible centered in my replies.

That is not to say that you are wrong in what you wrote in the previous post. We must be ready at all times and all seasons to give a reason for what we believe. At the same time we must not use the same tactics that we use with Mormons on the pro- homosexual crowd or on those people to whom we give a witness to on the street. Make sense?

 

[Zecryphon]

Ah, thank you for the information regarding the word "apologetics". In contemporary usage, it usually means to defend the Christian faith. Well, ya live and ya learn.

 

[BreadAlone]

Actually, no..

Apologetics comes from the Greek word "apologia" meaning "defense" or "answer.."

 

[Zecryphon]

Yeah, see that"s what I was always told it meant. Now I'm confused. Well there's nothing new there.

 

[BreadAlone]

Just type "define:apologetics" into google..it should clear up all confusion!!

No, I've always been told that's what it meant too. Which makes me wonder though..I mean, as if the Holy Spirit needs someone to "defend" the faith!!

 

[Zecryphon]

The Holy Spirit doesn't, but I think the church does. LOL

 

[JohnT]

1apol•o•get•ic \ə-ˌpä-lə-ˈje-tik\ n​

15c : apologetics 1​

———————​

2apologetic adj​

[Gk apologētikos, fr. apologeisthai to defend, fr. apo- + logos speech] 1649​

1 a : offered in defense or vindication 〈the apologetic writings of the early Christians〉​

b : offered by way of excuse or apology 〈an apologetic smile〉​

2 : regretfully acknowledging fault or failure : contrite 〈replied in an apologetic tone〉 — apol•o•get•i•cal•ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adv​

———————​

apol•o•get•ics \-tiks\ n pl but sing or pl in constr​

ca. 1733​

1 : systematic argumentative discourse in defense (as of a doctrine)​

2 : a branch of theology devoted to the defense of the divine origin and authority of Christianity​

http://christianforums.com/#_ftn13 \

\ə\ abut \ə\ kitten, F table \ər\ further \a\ ash \ā\ ace \ä\ mop, mar​

\au̇\ out \ch\ chin \e\ bet \ē\ easy \g\ go \i\ hit \ī\ ice \j\ job​

\ŋ\ sing \ō\ go \ȯ\ law \ȯi\ boy \th\ thin \ṯẖ\ the \ü\ loot \u̇\ foot​

\y\ yet \zh\ vision, beige \ḵ, n, œ, ue, y\ see Guide to Pronunciation​

n northern, noun

c century

adj adjective

Gk Greek

fr from

adv adverb

n pl noun plural

sing singular

pl plural

constr construction

ca circa

http://christianforums.com/#_ftnref13Merriam-Webster, I. (2003). Merriam-Webster's collegiate dictionary. Includes index. (Eleventh ed.). Springfield, Mass.: Merriam-Webster, Inc.

Apo--
ἀπό (Hom.+; inscr., pap., LXX, Philo, Joseph., Test. 12 Patr.) prep. w. gen. (see the lit. on ἀνά, beg., also for ἀπό: KDieterich, IndogF 24, ’09, 93-158). Basic mng. separation from someone or someth., fr. which the other mngs. have developed. In the NT it has encroached on the domain of Att. ἐκ, ὑπό, παρά, and the gen. of separation; cf. Mlt. 102; 246; http://christianforums.com/#_ftn20 Hom. Homer, perh. VIII-VI bc

inscr. inscription(s)

pap. papyrus, -yri

LXX Septuagint

Philo Philo of Alexandria, ed. LCohn and PWendland 1896ff, cited by book and §. Vol. VII 1930 contains the indices by JLeisegang, I ad

Joseph. Josephus, ed. BNiese 1887-95, cited as Jos., with book and §, I ad

Test. 12 Patr. Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs ed. RHCharles 1908

prep. preposition(al)

w. with

gen. genitive

lit. literal(ly); literature, references to (scholarly) literature

beg. beginning

IndogF Indogermanische Forschungen 1891ff.

mng. meaning(s)

someth. something

fr. from

Att. Attic

cf. confer (compare)

Mlt. JHMoulton, A Grammar of NT Greek, vol. I Prolegomena3 1908; reprinted 1949.





http://christianforums.com/#_ftnref20

λογισμός, οῦ, ὁ (Thu.+; inscr., pap., LXX; oft. Philo; Jos., Ant. 17, 228; Sib. Or. 2, 314).​

1. calculation, reasoning, reflection, thought in our lit. in pl. W. ἔννοιαι thoughts and sentiments Pol 4:3. μεταξὺ ἀλλήλων τῶν λ. κατηγορούντων as their thoughts accuse one another Ro 2:15. Not infreq. in an unfavorable sense (as e.g. Vett. Val. 49, 8; 173, 11; λ. κακοί Pr 6:18. Cf. Wsd 1:3, 5; 11:15) οἱ προκατέχοντές σου τὴν διάνοιαν λογισμοί the (prejudiced) thoughts that occupy your mind Dg 2:1. λογισμοὶ ἐθνῶν the designs of the heathen 1 Cl 59:3. λογισμοὺς καθαιροῦντες we demolish sophistries 2 Cor 10:4.​

2. reasoning power, wisdom (Epicurus in Diog. L. 10, 132 νήφων λογισμός=sober reasoning; Test. Gad 6:2 τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ μίσους ἐτάρασσέ μου τὸν λογισμὸν πρὸς τὸ ἀνελεῖν αὐτόν; Jos., Bell. 2, 31)ἄνθρωπος αἴσθησιν ἔχει κ. λογισμόν a man has the power to feel and think Dg 2:9 (λ. w. αἴσθησις as Philo, Praem. 28). M-M.*​

λογομαχέω (Eustath., Opusc. p. 47, 96) dispute about words, split hairs 2 Ti 2:14.*​

http://christianforums.com/#_ftn24 Thu. Thucydides, V bc

inscr. inscription(s)

pap. papyrus, -yri

LXX Septuagint

oft. often

Philo Philo of Alexandria, ed. LCohn and PWendland 1896ff, cited by book and §. Vol. VII 1930 contains the indices by JLeisegang, I ad

Jos. Josephus, ed. BNiese 1887-95, cited as Jos., with book and §, I ad

Sib. Or. Sib. Or., s. Oracula Sibyllina, ed. JGef[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]en 1902

lit. literal(ly); literature, references to (scholarly) literature

pl. plural

W. with

Pol Polycarp to the Philippians

e.g. exempli gratia (for example)

Vett. Val. Vettius Valens, ed. WKroll; cited by page and line, II ad

Cf. confer (compare)

Dg Diognetus

1 Cl 1 Clement

Epicurus Epicurus, c. 300 bc

Diog. L. Diogenes Laertius, ed. CGCobet 1850. III ad

Test. Gad Testament of Gad [Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs ed. RHCharles 1908]

M-M. JHMoulton and GMilligan, The Vocabulary of the Greek NT Illustrated from the Papyri and other Non-Literary Sources 1914-30.

Eustath. Eustathius, XII ad

p. page(s)



http://christianforums.com/#_ftnref24Arndt, W., Gingrich, F. W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (1996, c1979). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature : A translation and adaption of the fourth revised and augmented edition of Walter Bauer's Griechisch-deutsches Worterbuch zu den Schrift en des Neuen Testaments und der ubrigen urchristlichen Literatur (476). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

I stand corrected

Anyway, it is my nature to be evangelistic. What is the sense in "winning" an argument if it is not to further the Kingdom of God??