I want to spend some time alone with God on this matter. Could you all provide me with the scriputures you use to debate all sides of this issue. No need to say weather it supports or condemns. Just need a quick list. Thanks.
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Quick list of scripture.
- Thread starter jennyren
- Start date
lincolngreen50
A follower of Christ
Dear Jennyren,
Specifically study the scriptures below
Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God.
Homosexuality is only one of a whole load of sins that man commits. When a person continues in sin and refuses to accept that he or she is commiting sin, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.
God bless you
Specifically study the scriptures below
Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God.
Homosexuality is only one of a whole load of sins that man commits. When a person continues in sin and refuses to accept that he or she is commiting sin, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.
God bless you
Upvote
0
HaloHope
Senior Member
- May 25, 2007
- 506
- 165
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- In Relationship
- Politics
- UK-Liberal-Democrats
Hope you dont mind (we seem to be having fairly reasonable dialogue of late!) but its obviously my job as someone on the other side to refute those verses.
Genesis 19:1-13 - The crime detailed in this story is quite obviously homosexual rape. Which is a BIG difference from consensual homosexual sex.
Leviticus 18:22 - Debatable once more, this could easily be talking about prostitution etc.. HOWEVER even if it does mean homosexuality it is abolished with Jesus bringing in the New Convenant.
Romans 1:26-27 - Again Debatable, taken in the wider context of the verses this is more about Roman Pagan temple worship (in which sex acts were used to glorify the pagan Gods) than homosexuality. You could also argue (rather cheekily I suppose) that "natural" actions for homosexuals would be to have same-sex relations so the verse is talking about hetrosexuals using homosexual sex as a form of pagan worship.
1 Corinthians 6:9 - Modern translation by those with an agenda, the word "homosexual" didnt exsist when the Bible was written. My Bible says "sodomite" which could of course mean someone who commited the sin of Sodom from which we can clearly see in Ezekiel 16 48-50 is NOT homosexuality or anything to do with it.
Just my opinion on those verses!
Upvote
0
Texas Lynn
Well-Known Member
- Dec 17, 2002
- 10,352
- 665
- 48
- Faith
- Methodist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Democrat
In your request you will receive from the antigay faction the several obscure passages they have committed to memory which are used to terrorize LGBTs. Rather than ponder the meanings of these, though you are certainly encouraged to do that, you might also wish to ponder just what it is which leads heterosexuals without close family members or friends who are LGBT to concentrate on this area to the detriment of so many other areas. I think an objective analysis will show you the arrogance of all this finger wagging is merely an exercise of organized bullying and does not honor Christ.
Attempts to use these passages out of context is contradicted by Galatians 3:28 and so many other passages which proclaim the lack of limits on God's Love.
Attempts to use these passages out of context is contradicted by Galatians 3:28 and so many other passages which proclaim the lack of limits on God's Love.
Upvote
0
Unbroken
Junior Member
- Jan 18, 2007
- 225
- 22
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- In Relationship
- Politics
- US-Constitution
Although I do agree some things were abolished with the comming of Christ. I don't think this is one of them, although I will read more on it first [not that my mind will be changed, as I know full well what I've read and what I believe]. But I won't even go as far as to pretend my words can interpret His Word, but instead will look and later come back with Bible verses on the subject.
Upvote
0
Please also bear in mind that this and other professed events from Genesis are possibly - in fact probably ARE - fables. Fables are not (necessarily) 'lies' but fictional stories that are told to present a more holistic picture. The actual existence of Sodom and Gomorrah has never been scientifically established, nor have the actual events surrounding this story actually been proven to be anything other than a fable. If Christians don't like that then please don't shoot me ...I'm only the messenger.
Unless one desires to keep ALL of the rituals and ordinances contained in Leviticus then we need to dismiss them all as being 'not for our time'. I mean, when was the last time anyone had the desire to boil a kid in its mother's milk ...? Not Leviticus, I know, but yet another of these rather bizarre scriptures that make us scratch our heads. Actually, some of these commands were probably not as bizarre as we might think but they WERE given to specific people for specific reasons. Generally speaking, they would not apply to we of today. Also, generally speaking, the majority of us would KNOW this.
The above clearly has nothing to do with the issue that we're discussing on this sub-forum. We need to apply intelligence and rationality when attempting to apply these scriptures to one's sexual orientation. Intelligence and rationality are a great God-given gift indeed!
To equate ANY of the above texts with homosexuality as per this sub-forum is merely wishful thinking on the part of some. If homosexuality per se IS a sin then this must come from a source other than the Bible. I'm still waiting for someone to present to me that scripture that uneqivocally states, "homosexuality is a sin." All I've ever seen are archaic texts that are sometimes so ambiguous in content that I wonder how ANYONE can work them out.
Upvote
0
Hi I sincerely hope you don't fall into the belief of others where I once was believing the Bible was the inerant word of God..
It is a miserable state to be in to have your life ruled by a book that was put together by fallible human beings with agendas of their own.
Do you believe it is okay to wear braids in your hair, jewelry?
Do you believe a woman has no right to speak in the church and should only enquire of her husband at home? What of those that have no husband or other male family members?
Do you believe woman will be saved through child bearing?
What about slaves and all the "rules" for them to be submissive?
When you read these verses it certainly appears someone was trying to keep some others in line..
Upvote
0
Texas Lynn
Well-Known Member
- Dec 17, 2002
- 10,352
- 665
- 48
- Faith
- Methodist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Democrat
Certainly the above post makes an assumption and in this case a false one.
No, Sir. I mean nothing of the sort. Unless you are of the faction which accepts that the death penalty for homosexuality is appropriate because taken literally that is what the Bible says.
You do not "know" what the Bible says; all you have, and all you ever will have in this life is your interpretation.
BTW, homosexuality is not an "act" and the characterization of another's capacity to love as such is a most unfortunate comment for which one who made such a remark should be dearly ashamed.
Upvote
0
Basically, there are a handful of verses that are often repeated as condemning "homosexuality." The story of Sodom, from Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, Romans 1:26-27 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:8-11. There are also a number of other verses that are occassionally trotted out which speak of sexual immorality. While it is certainly possible to do sexually immoral things with a same-sex partner, these verses only condemn homosexuality in general if it is already established that homosexuality in general is immoral.
I agree that you should spend time with God in meditation and prayer on this issue, and that you should study the verses that seem to condemn it. But your study should be in context.
For example study not just Genesis 19 to learn about Sodom, but Genesis 18 (Sodom was condemned even before the angels visited Lot.) and look at passages like Jeremiah 23, Ezekiel 16, and Mark 6 to discover what it is that the Bible describes as the sin(s) of Sodom.
In Leviticus, examine the Hebrew words translated wicked, abomination, unclean, etc. "Toevah," the word used in 18:22 and 20:13 is not the highest level of wickedness, and it is used to describe many things that are not binding on the New Testament believer.
Look at the entire chapters of Leviticus 18 and 20. The concept of incest in those chapters is not the same as the concept of incest today. The chapters are not so much about sex and marriage between blood relations as it is about adultery within the family unit. Otherwise why the concern about "uncovering the nakedness "of" ("that belongs to")" the woman's husband or parent? Also forbidden was sex with a woman, even a wife, during her "niddah" (approximately two and a half weeks begining with the first indications of her period.) This is not a repeat of the unclean-ness of a woman in niddah, it is a moral command to avoid her sexually just as one should avoid an aunt-by-marriage or a step-sister. If the incest laws are not understood the same way as originally intended, why should we expect that the "man-lying" command is?
When you look at chapter 1 of Romans, read not just verses 26-27 but the entire passage, beginning with verse 18, and continuing at least through verse 3 of chapter 2, or better yet through the entire second chapter. Paul's whole point is that while the pagan Romans may seem to be particularly corrupt and evil, the Christian is no better, and cannot save himself. It is only through the free gift of grace that there is any hope for humankind. The actions in verses 26 and 27 are just two of a great number of sins, and everyone commits some of them.
The verses in question are a literary allusion. (Another example of a literary allusion would be to call a tightwad "Scrooge" -- it is a name or description that brings to mind a famous literary work. Recognizing the allusion goes a long way toward understanding the writers meaning in making such a reference. You might want to read Plato's Laws, which is the book Paul alludes to, at some time in the future, but at this point it may be enough to know that Plato, who also wrote The Symposium, would probably not condemn all same-sex relationships, just those outside Reason.
Again with 1 Corinthians chapter 6 and 1 Timothy chapter 1, reading the verses presented within context. Especially since the history an objective meaning for the contoversial word is practically non-existant. It only first appears in 1 Corinthians, and every subsequent appearance is clearly influenced by its appearance here. Nor can context be used in other works.they are all just simple lists of sinners and/or their sins. And again, Paul's point is that whatever sins are committed by others, our sins are just as bad. That we all in need of God's grace.
As far as specific passages for the other side, consider how in Acts 10-11 and 15, and even more so in Romans 14, Colossians 2 and Galatians (the whole book, but especially 3:21-26 and4:21-26) it made clear that the terms of the Old Covenant are modified and even abolished for the New Covenant belever.
Some people try to keep us bound to some of the Law by dividing it into ceremonial and moral portions, but there is no agreement on the specifics (other than the sexual laws are "clearly" moral), and there is no passage in the Bible to allow making the distinction.
To the contrary, passages such as Romans 14:20, 1 Corinthians 6:12, 1 Corinthians 10:23, Galatians 3:10, tell us that we are not bound to the letter of the law but are to follow the Spirit, as He leads us. So even if the Levitical ban on "man-lying" meant all homosexual expression, and even if "arsenokoites" means breakers of the "man-lying" law (before they converted from Judaism to Christ), we are not slaves of the Law, but children of the Spirit. There are limits to our freedom in what James calls the "law of liberty," but we are answerable to God, not to one another if we stray beyond those limits. (James 4:11-12, and also Romans 14 and Galatians 3 and 4)
Please reflect on these passages, and not just the specific verses cited, but their context with the whole chapter or the whole book. I don't you to take my word for their meaning any more than I want you to read only the verses used condemn gays
Upvote
0
lincolngreen50
A follower of Christ
Dear Jennyren you will find a good rescource of information refuting the Homosexual argument about scripture by this link.
http://www.carm.org/issues/homosexuality.htm
http://www.carm.org/issues/homosexuality.htm
Upvote
0
Lord_Barthok_Soc
Veritatem Imitare
That section amused me quite a bit. Accusing the "opposite side" of taking verses out of context and reading into them meanings that aren't there...just before they do that very thing, using verses without any thought to context.
Can anyone say "character assassination"? How about "hypocrisy" or "demonising"?
Anyway, moving quickly on, re the OP: OllieFranz gave a good list, so I shan't reiterate something so well-put already. I would, however, like to add the whole of 1Corinthinas 6 and 7. Particularly interesting chapters when thinking on this matter, as it covers facts such as
*we must decide on this issue; we can't just say "it doesn't hurt anyone else, so why should I care?", because a sin against the body is a sin against the Spirit (1Cor6:18-19).
*most have sexual desires that need sating, but shouldn't do this through rampant fornication, rather via relationships (how can we say one thing for hetero's and another for homos?) not as a matter of regulation, but concession (1Cor7:6-7)
*Paul also writes his own words on these matters, not God's or Jesus' (1Cor7:12)
and more. Happy reading
Upvote
0
lincolngreen50
A follower of Christ
Homosexual lobby will say that God made us to be a homosexual, so He doesn’t want us to change.
Homosexuals argue that they did not make a conscious decision to be that way, so it must be natural.
They are born that way, just as all of us are born with a sin nature and sinful desires Ephesians 2:1. It is natural for them, and for all of us, to be tempted to do things that God says are wrong. In the same way, paedophiles and adulterers (alcoholics, drug addicts,murderers,thieves, etc.) don’t make a conscious decision to "choose" that self-destructive lifestyle, they simply give in to their sinful desires. However, although sin is natural for unbelievers and to those who refuse to believe they are sinning, that doesn’t mean God wants them to remain that way. God can set them free from their sinful nature (Romans 7:23–8:2), give them new desires (Ephesians 4:22–24), and help them withstand temptations (1 Corinthians 10:13).
Repent and turn to Jesus Christ.
Homosexuals argue that they did not make a conscious decision to be that way, so it must be natural.
They are born that way, just as all of us are born with a sin nature and sinful desires Ephesians 2:1. It is natural for them, and for all of us, to be tempted to do things that God says are wrong. In the same way, paedophiles and adulterers (alcoholics, drug addicts,murderers,thieves, etc.) don’t make a conscious decision to "choose" that self-destructive lifestyle, they simply give in to their sinful desires. However, although sin is natural for unbelievers and to those who refuse to believe they are sinning, that doesn’t mean God wants them to remain that way. God can set them free from their sinful nature (Romans 7:23–8:2), give them new desires (Ephesians 4:22–24), and help them withstand temptations (1 Corinthians 10:13).
Repent and turn to Jesus Christ.
Upvote
0
just for a laugh..
These are just some old laws, imagine if we were still bound by all that's been written...
http://www.dribbleglass.com/subpages/laws.htm
In Alabama, it is illegal to wear a fake mustache that causes laughter in church.
In Michigan, a man legally owns his wife's hair.
In Washington state, it's against the law to sleep in an outhouse without the owner's permission.
In Alabama, dominoes may not be played on Sunday.
In Connorsville, Wisconsin a man is legally prohibited from shooting a gun while his female partner is having an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].
In Atlanta, Georgia, it is illegal to tie a giraffe to a telephone pole or street lamp
In Logan County, Colorado, it's illegal for a man to kiss a woman while she's asleep
Monkeys are forbidden from smoke cigarettes in South Bend, Indiana
In Willowdale, Oregon, no man may curse while having sex with his wife.
In Oxford, Ohio, it's illegal for a woman to strip off her clothing while standing in front of a man's picture.
These are just some old laws, imagine if we were still bound by all that's been written...
http://www.dribbleglass.com/subpages/laws.htm
In Alabama, it is illegal to wear a fake mustache that causes laughter in church.
In Michigan, a man legally owns his wife's hair.
In Washington state, it's against the law to sleep in an outhouse without the owner's permission.
In Alabama, dominoes may not be played on Sunday.
In Connorsville, Wisconsin a man is legally prohibited from shooting a gun while his female partner is having an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].
In Atlanta, Georgia, it is illegal to tie a giraffe to a telephone pole or street lamp
In Logan County, Colorado, it's illegal for a man to kiss a woman while she's asleep
Monkeys are forbidden from smoke cigarettes in South Bend, Indiana
In Willowdale, Oregon, no man may curse while having sex with his wife.
In Oxford, Ohio, it's illegal for a woman to strip off her clothing while standing in front of a man's picture.
Upvote
0
Texas Lynn
Well-Known Member
- Dec 17, 2002
- 10,352
- 665
- 48
- Faith
- Methodist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Democrat
Upvote
0
Texas Lynn
Well-Known Member
- Dec 17, 2002
- 10,352
- 665
- 48
- Faith
- Methodist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Democrat
Anyone with your views that thinks somehow the way to win people over to your way of thinking is to denigrate them by comparing them to murderers and pedophiles is not in touch with reality.
All need to repent of their sins, including you. Being LGBT and experiencing eroticism as an LGBT is most assuredly not a sin.
Upvote
0
Texas Lynn
Well-Known Member
- Dec 17, 2002
- 10,352
- 665
- 48
- Faith
- Methodist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Democrat
just for a laugh..
These are just some old laws, imagine if we were still bound by all that's been written...
http://www.dribbleglass.com/subpages/laws.htm
In Alabama, it is illegal to wear a fake mustache that causes laughter in church.
In Michigan, a man legally owns his wife's hair.
In Washington state, it's against the law to sleep in an outhouse without the owner's permission.
In Alabama, dominoes may not be played on Sunday.
In Connorsville, Wisconsin a man is legally prohibited from shooting a gun while his female partner is having an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].
In Atlanta, Georgia, it is illegal to tie a giraffe to a telephone pole or street lamp
In Logan County, Colorado, it's illegal for a man to kiss a woman while she's asleep
Monkeys are forbidden from smoke cigarettes in South Bend, Indiana
In Willowdale, Oregon, no man may curse while having sex with his wife.
In Oxford, Ohio, it's illegal for a woman to strip off her clothing while standing in front of a man's picture.
These sort of lists often reveal how local government can be the most oppressive of all and how the Mrs. Grundys of the world seem to gravitate toward same. No one more strongly objects to Jefferson's dictum "that government that governs best governs least" than those convinced of their own moral superiority.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
