Questions

[Q]

Hi,I hope I will get some answers

I have not met any conservative (YEC,literal bible) Christains in my life,the first time I met one,was on Internet.

My family is catholic,but it is more a formality,than any faith behind it,I was baptised,had the first communion,and confirmation,but for me those were just formal occasions,I never believed in God,or searched for any gods.
I grew up believing in conservative values,but looking at religions,as political-economical tool,based on fears and lack of knowledge.

The faith came to me when I was 20,one girl I knew met some evangelists on a street,and asked me to go to church to meet them with her.

I went,watched them chat,watched them pray,got a new testament ...later ,started to read the gospels,and
some time later,I realised I believed in God.

I accepted the salvation idea,hell,etc..but I believed from the start,all the people will be saved,at that point,I
simply believed in the last moments of life,all the people will make the right decision(now I believe differently)

My lifestyle did not change,but I kept thinking about God,Jesus,and started to look for answers,many I found in the NT I had,some came to me later,with realisation,I would had rejected that answer before.
My life started to change,from very happy,to tragic,and I was amazed,that everything felt better,because of the hope I got from God.
I learned a lot about Christianity since,my faith is constant,my beliefs change and shape slowly.

I joined here to interact with CHristians,but ended up spending most of my time in debate forums,as atheist thinking and reasoning is much closer to me,and I understanding it beter.
I came here with a naive idea,that Christians are kinder,nicer,and more trust worthy than any other group of people.
Slowly i learned this is not the case,and I become weary of the conservative Christians especialy,becouse of my experience and observation.

DOn't get me wrong,I have met many who are just lovely,and I can not say a single bad word about them,like LadyTrekki,Belantara,Angelwind,ConstanceP,Truly blessed,Stormy,Valentine,UB4ME,SimWells,CharlesH,DannyB,Hopper,Plan9,
Aria,Rut,NewSong,StarrSDAlivingword ,Gwenyfur,ForHisGlory,Daisysqueeks,Greenthumb,JTTP1974,Lilli00,Lilli,Lambkins,Savedsis,Billswife,
Hisbygrace...many more,I can't think of their ID's now(sorry)

Sadly,I could list many whos behaviour makes me feel ill,who stand for everything I dislike about people,hypocrisy,lack of integrity,judgemental atitude,
gossip,bullying,feeling superior....
and one of my worst dislikes,using scriptures to justify their bad behaviour,or to offend others.

Many of those sadly were staff members on this forum,
some still are,I guess they are the most ambitious and vocal,so they made themselves more visible.
I strongly dislike the way staff used to funkcion on here,
because of my personal experience,I even found myslef
falling into the trap of silencing people,and judging them,into adopting 'us against them' atitude.

I left CF for about a year (a few months I spent in armoury,without looking into the forums)
and returned just in time for the changes.

Again,the very people who I saw behaving badly,were all conservative Christians.

I was attacked several times,and at one point,harrased
by a group of my former 'friends' and their buddies.
I was provoked to react in a very critical way,and I managed to upset many conservative christians,who do not deserve my criticism,and do not deserve to be grouped with the ones I talked about.

I had to stop posting,just to avoid upseting any more
conservatives,who I respect,or don't know.

In all the years on CF,I tried to ask questions,but received very few answers,maybe because I used to ask in debate forums,where many conservatives did not trust genuine question,and were defensive,and quite sarcastic/aggresive,as a result of that environment,where every word is questioned.

I realised that asking in the debate,as I am a christian,looked like a trick,provocation,to many of the members there.

SO I am going to try here,I hope you will not feel provoked,or tricked,I really am searching for answers.

In my search for a church,I have always been pulled into the most ancient christianities,from messianic (trinitarian and non trinitarian),to orthodox (others too,but those are not conservative)

Here are some questions,I would like to ask.

What makes you a conservative christian,and if you dislike liberal christianity,please explain why?
What are your beliefs about salvation/unsaved,and why?
What are your beliefs about trinity,and why you believe it?
What do you believe about the origins/age of universe,
earth,life on earth,humans,and why?
Would you be comfortable to discuss christianity in debate forums?

Thank you,I hope I did not break any of your rules,and I hope I did not offend anyone.

 

[Voegelin]

Hi,I hope I will get some answers
I have not met any conservative (YEC,literal bible) Christains in my life,the first time I met one,was on Internet . . .

Sounds as if your questions are more denominational than directed at conservative Christians in general. That is understandable as there has been some confusion regarding the name of this forum. YEC literalists are a sub-set of conservative Christianity but no means representative of it. As I tend toward the Catholic/Orthodox position (looking to Chesterton, Belloc, T.S. Eliot, C.S. Lewis, Timothy Dwight some Bonhoeffer and even some--stripped of his existential psychology--Tillich) I'm not the one to answer most of your questions.

Far as debate is concerned, I don't participate in theological debate--praxis is my interest and that demands, I believe, orthodoxy of one sort or the other or it usually becomes little more than marxism with a thin veneer of Christianity (which entails denying the dignity of the human person, adopting a utilitarian, materialistic philosophy, embracing relativism and engaging in class warfare and psychological manipulation).

 

[Q]

Thank you for your reply

Sounds as if your questions are more denominational than directed at conservative Christians in general. That is understandable as there has been some confusion regarding the name of this forum. YEC literalists are a sub-set of conservative Christianity but no means representative of it. As I tend toward the Catholic/Orthodox position (looking to Chesterton, Belloc, T.S. Eliot, C.S. Lewis, Timothy Dwight some Bonhoeffer and even some--stripped of his existential psychology--Tillich) I'm not the one to answer most of your questions.

Well,I am interested in your Christianity too .

I basicly don't understand beliefs in hell/eternal punishment,evil entity,and trinity is something I have yet to see a good explanation/evidence for.

I am interested in what people believe,and why,so if you don't mind,please post more about your beliefs.


I have yet to meet two christians who have the same beliefs ...or it looks that way to me,except the group I call extreme conservatives-the group I see behaving badly on CF,they seem to share beliefs most closely,or it appears that way to me.

What makes you a conservative Christian?
Who do you consider to be one?

Far as debate is concerned, I don't participate in theological debate--praxis is my interest and that demands, I believe, orthodoxy of one sort or the other or it usually becomes little more than marxism with a thin veneer of Christianity (which entails denying the dignity of the human person, adopting a utilitarian, materialistic philosophy, embracing relativism and engaging in class warfare and psychological manipulation).

I don't exactly like theological debates,I am more interested in personal experiences,observations,opinions,
especialy from people who don't base their faith in the bible,doctrines,but rather make it more personal.
Not sure I am capable to articulate what I am trying to say/ask,sorry-putting theology in the real life,something like that.
The dangers you have mentioned,I see in people who
have a need to have a perfect book,a perfect knowledge,something solid to hold on too,later just a tool to judge other in many cases.

(Maybe I just did not get your post)

 

[Albion]

Hi. I too got the impression that you were not talking about consaervative Christians but some particular clan of fundamentalists or whatever. I really don't know, since I am not even sure what YEC refers to. But I have been surprised, very pleasantly so, to find that the people who are gathered here in the Conservative Christians forum are more even-tempered and inclined to be charitable than just about any of the denominational forums I have been on.

I guess that's all in who one reads and his or her own perception of things. But you also asked what Conservative Christians are.

We are belivers in the traditional faith, as opposed to do-it-yourself doctrine-setting or adherence to some new notion about what Christians should believe about the Bible, although no one ever did before. In addition, we are conservative in the non-religious sense of the word--respectful of law and other people's rights, patriotic, and not given to expecting the rest of society to give us everything we'd like to have.

 

[Q]

Thank you for the reply.

Hi. I too got the impression that you were not talking about consaervative Christians but some particular clan of fundamentalists or whatever. I really don't know, since I am not even sure what YEC refers to. But I have been surprised, very pleasantly so, to find that the people who are gathered here in the Conservative Christians forum are more even-tempered and inclined to be charitable than just about any of the denominational forums I have been on.

I guess I talked about the beliefs of the majority of former staff,(and people who agree with them) -who call themselves conservative christians.
YEC-young Earth creation

We are belivers in the traditional faith, as opposed to do-it-yourself doctrine-setting or adherence to some new notion about what Christians should believe about the Bible, although no one ever did before. In addition, we are conservative in the non-religious sense of the word--respectful of law and other people's rights, patriotic, and not given to expecting the rest of society to give us everything we'd like to have.

What do you consider traditional faith? (I find faith to be personal,and don't really know what you mean,sorry.)

What do you consider to be new?

Can you answer my questions from the OP? (you don't have to,is OK)


The other part,I believe in conservative lifestyle,but not in conservative politics,I prefer libertarian views.

 

[Albion]

I guess I talked about the beliefs of the majority of former staff,(and people who agree with them) -who call themselves conservative christians.
YEC-young Earth creation

Thank you for filling me in on that. I would not have guessed correctly even given some time at it!

What do you consider traditional faith? (I find faith to be personal,and don't really know what you mean,sorry.)

My fault. I tend to speak of the religion called Christianity in the flowery way that book-writers and hymn writers tend to do, as "the faith." The personal bond the Savior has with his own is "Faith" of course, but that is, as you said, a different matter.

What do you consider to be new?

The versions of "the faith" offered by most of the cults, most of whom have revised the nature or role of Jesus from what Christians have always believed, regardless of denomination, new scriptures put alongside the Bible like the Book of Mormon, new theories from those people who have discovered from their own reading of scripture any doctrine that the church never held, etc.

Can you answer my questions from the OP? (you don't have to,is OK)

Sure.

--What makes you a conservative christian,and if you dislike liberal christianity,please explain why?

I think I've already covered that one.

--What are your beliefs about salvation/unsaved,and why?

Salvation is only through Christ who, being God, took on our sins for us and reconciled mankind to God.

--What are your beliefs about trinity,and why you believe it?

The Trinitarian view of God is Biblical, so I believe it.

-- What do you believe about the origins/age of universe,
earth,life on earth,humans,and why?

I tend towards theistic evolution, but I don't worry over it very much since it has no bearing on my faith or any Christian principle, so long as God is seen as the first cause and the Bible considered true and inspired.

--Would you be comfortable to discuss christianity in debate forums?

Yes.

 

[Razorbuck]

What makes you a conservative christian,and if you dislike liberal christianity,please explain why?

I believe the Bible to be the the inerrant, inspired Word of God. If that makes me a "conservative Christian", so be it.

What are your beliefs about salvation/unsaved, and why?

I believe exactly what scripture teaches about salvation, that it is by God's grace through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ. Those who reject Christ are condemned already.

What are your beliefs about trinity, and why you believe it?

Scripture teaches that our LORD is triune. I believe scripture.

What do you believe about the origins/age of universe, earth, life on earth, humans, and why?

Again, I believe what scripture reveals, namely that God created the heaven and the earth, and all that are contained therein in six days, and rested from His labors on the seventh.

Would you be comfortable to discuss christianity in debate forums?

While debate is certainly not my forte', I am always pleased with an opportunity to bear witness to His grace and goodness through discussion of His Word. I would be completely willing to enter into any civil discourse about Him.

I thank you for taking the time to post here, and for the civility of your tone. I will pray you find the answers you seek through the leading of my LORD's Holy Spirit. If I can be of service in your search, you have but to ask.

 

[Q]

Thank you for filling me in on that. I would not have guessed correctly even given some time at it!

Sorry

My fault. I tend to speak of the religion called Christianity in the flowery way that book-writers and hymn writers tend to do, as "the faith." The personal bond the Savior has with his own is "Faith" of course, but that is, as you said, a different matter.

I see.I view faith as a belief in God,and I don't think it is a choice people can make,it was not my choice for sure.
What you described as faith,I call a set of beliefs-people chose them...sory for confusing you.

The versions of "the faith" offered by most of the cults, most of whom have revised the nature or role of Jesus from what Christians have always believed,

This means that you support only the christianities,believing in trinity,right?
Most liberal christians believe the same.

regardless of denomination, new scriptures put alongside the Bible like the Book of Mormon, new theories from those people who have discovered from their own reading of scripture any doctrine that the church never held, etc.

The bible was put together with a very small group of Christians,also,the interpretation and translation of scriptures was done with a select few.
What makes you so sure,those people were right?

One of the reasons I don't see the bible as something to be taken 100% literaly,is the way jewish scriptures were
compiled,for a specific audience.
I believe the gospels were also taylored for certain audience,using the examples/language,etc,poeple will be familiar with,and understand.

I see the bible as a spiritual book,and to a degree history of ancient Jews.

For example,we use now expressions,and if those were translated in 2000 years,literaly,the meaning would change..like...She went to town with it (she went over the top)
We also have stories based on curent culture,those will become meaningles with time,another reason why I am careful to see the bible literaly.
The next thing is translation,I speak several languages,and I know how the meaning can change,if a person who translates,is not familiar with the lifestye,culture,etc...

How can you be sure?

Sure.

Thank you

I think I've already covered that one.

I see what you find important,but I still don't know why,
how you made this decision.

Salvation is only through Christ who, being God, took on our sins for us and reconciled mankind to God.

do you believe it is conditional?I assume you do,because that is the traditional view

The Trinitarian view of God is Biblical, so I believe it.

I am having problems to see this in the bible.
I don't disagree,just looking for a good explanation.

I tend towards theistic evolution, but I don't worry over it very much since it has no bearing on my faith or any Christian principle, so long as God is seen as the first cause and the Bible considered true and inspired.

this is not what I considered a conservative view
it sort of invites a question,what in the bible is to be taken literaly,and what is not ,or rather,who is interpreting the bible correctly (if anyone)

--Would you be comfortable to discuss christianity in debate forums?

Yes.

thank you,I will see how this goes here,and may invite people to discuss a topic in debate forums

 

[Q]

What makes you a conservative christian,and if you dislike liberal christianity,please explain why?

I believe the Bible to be the the inerrant, inspired Word of God. If that makes me a "conservative Christian", so be it.

I don't really make this divide,for me behaviour of a person matters,but I was affected by this divide,and want to be able to understand more

In my previous reply,I explained why I find it dificult to view the bible as inerrant
Can I ask why you believe this?

What are your beliefs about salvation/unsaved, and why?

I believe exactly what scripture teaches about salvation, that it is by God's grace through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ. Those who reject Christ are condemned already.

This is something I find dificult to understand,how can a person reject something they don't believe in?
I can't imagine anyone who believes in Jesus,rejecting him.

What are your beliefs about trinity, and why you believe it?

Scripture teaches that our LORD is triune. I believe scripture.

I want to believe it,but I don't see it in the scriptures.

Again, I believe what scripture reveals, namely that God created the heaven and the earth, and all that are contained therein in six days, and rested from His labors on the seventh.

I see.You believe the science is wrong about the age of the universe,earth and life on earth.This is a very dificult to advocate position,and I have not seen any convicning answers,raised in Creation and Evolution forums about it yet.
The Jews are also divided about it,and because of the original use of the word day,many reject the YEC.
I don't see this as any base for rejecting/accepting God,do you believe it is a problem,if people do not share your beliefs,in regards to their faith/fate?

While debate is certainly not my forte', I am always pleased with an opportunity to bear witness to His grace and goodness through discussion of His Word. I would be completely willing to enter into any civil discourse about Him.

I thank you for taking the time to post here, and for the civility of your tone. I will pray you find the answers you seek through the leading of my LORD's Holy Spirit. If I can be of service in your search, you have but to ask.

Thank you,I am mostly interested in personal reasons,and experiences of believers.
I think fellowship type of discussion will be nicer,than a debate,if you don't feel that is your call
Thank you for the reply,and the prayers.

I would love to hear your personal story/grace you received.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Like Voegelin and Albion, my Christian conservatism is in a Catholic/Anglican/Orthodox kind of way. I am only mostly conservative, but enough so that I seem to fit in here pretty well.

I am not an inerrantist nor a YEC person. Unfortunately I don't have time to go into detail now, but perhaps later after I return from work.

 

[Albion]

Sorry

No apology necessary. I'm sure lots of other people knew exactly what you were speaking of.

I see.I view faith as a belief in God,and I don't think it is a choice people can make,it was not my choice for sure.
What you described as faith,I call a set of beliefs-people chose them.

I see it as a set of beliefs God chose to reveal to me.

This means that you support only the christianities,believing in trinity,right?

Only they are correct about this particular doctrine you asked about. I don't consider them bad people or lost necessarily, just wrong about this.

Most liberal christians believe the same.

I agree.

The bible was put together with a very small group of Christians

That's correct. A small group of scholars and leaders took all the books of the Bible that Christians had been using for centuries and assembled them into the edition we use today. That doesn't mean that they wrote them themselves.

also,the interpretation and translation of scriptures was done with a select few.
What makes you so sure,those people were right?

If they were not, what do we use for our authority? And if they were not right, what does that say about Christ's church--totally wrong from beginning to end? I don't think that is reasonable to conclude, at least not by anyone who still considers himself a Christian. For atheists, sure.

One of the reasons I don't see the bible as something to be taken 100% literaly,is the way jewish scriptures were
compiled,for a specific audience.
I believe the gospels were also taylored for certain audience,using the examples/language,etc,poeple will be familiar with,and understand.

None of that amounts to the Bible being wrong. We can and do take account of all of that when we make translations. Of course, our interpretations can be wrong, but given the enormous amount of work that has gone into getting the real meaning out of the Bible and the agreement that theologians of different churches have regarding most of it, I have no hesitation in saying that we are not at a loss to know what the Bible is telling us. BTW, it is not necessary to take the Bible 100% literally in order to believe that all of it is true. Much of it is obviously in analogies or parables or the picture language that the Hebrews used and we know that.

I see the bible as a spiritual book,and to a degree history of ancient Jews.

It's obviously that...in addition to being revelation.

For example,we use now expressions,and if those were translated in 2000 years,literaly,the meaning would change..like...She went to town with it (she went over the top)
We also have stories based on curent culture,those will become meaningles with time,another reason why I am careful to see the bible literaly.
The next thing is translation,I speak several languages,and I know how the meaning can change,if a person who translates,is not familiar with the lifestye,culture,etc...

Well, you who like myself are not a trained theologian or linguist understands all that, so it's not an insurmoutable problem at all, I'd conclude.

do you believe it is conditional?I assume you do,because that is the traditional view

Conditional? Yes, it is conditional upon the person accepting Christ as his Savior if that is what you mean.

I am having problems to see this in the bible.
I don't disagree,just looking for a good explanation.

Oh, it's there all right, but this is not the place to go into a lengthy explanation.

this is not what I considered a conservative view
it sort of invites a question,what in the bible is to be taken literaly,and what is not ,or rather,who is interpreting the bible correctly (if anyone)

I don't agree to that at all. You said that we must know the non-literal meaning of the writings of the people of that age, so if days = epochs, there is nothing strange in that. That's all that I meant by "Theistic evolution." Perhaps you have a different understanding of the term.

thank you,I will see how this goes here,and may invite people to discuss a topic in debate forums

I'd recommend doing it now, since this is not the place for a debate on salvation though faith in Christ or the reliability of the Bible, both of which are basic to this forum. I'm glad I could answer your questions, though.

 

[Q]

Like Voegelin and Albion, my Christian conservatism is in a Catholic/Anglican/Orthodox kind of way. I am only mostly conservative, but enough so that I seem to fit in here pretty well.

I am not an inerrantist nor a YEC person. Unfortunately I don't have time to go into detail now, but perhaps later after I return from work.

OK,I hope to see you later.Thank you

I see it as a set of beliefs God chose to reveal to me.

This is something I find interesting,a personal experience.
I know people are often not comfortable to speak about it,so I will not ask again,but if you don''t mind,I would like to hear about God in your life.

That's correct. A small group of scholars and leaders took all the books of the Bible that Christians had been using for centuries and assembled them into the edition we use today. That doesn't mean that they wrote them themselves.

I know,I believe the writings were inspired,I just am quite skeptical person,and I know many people added their own motives behind religious writings.
This is why I ask about personal experiences with God,
and the reasons behind peoples beliefs.

If they were not, what do we use for our authority? And if they were not right, what does that say about Christ's church--totally wrong from beginning to end? I don't think that is reasonable to conclude, at least not by anyone who still considers himself a Christian. For atheists, sure.

I don't know the answer,but I can't help to question things,it is just the way my mind works.
I like to see what other people think,and how they come to the conclusions,it often reveals my mistakes,or directs me ..at times confirms what I was thinking.

None of that amounts to the Bible being wrong.

I dont think the bible is wrong,I just believe there is ore to it all,that the message is alive,and adapts to the way people progress.

We can and do take account of all of that when we make translations. Of course, our interpretations can be wrong, but given the enormous amount of work that has gone into getting the real meaning out of the Bible and the agreement that theologians of different churches have regarding most of it, I have no hesitation in saying that we are not at a loss to know what the Bible is telling us. BTW, it is not necessary to take the Bible 100% literally in order to believe that all of it is true. Much of it is obviously in analogies or parables or the picture language that the Hebrews used and we know that.

Here is where I made the mistake,assuming conservative christians take the bible as literal,and inerrant.
I dont like placing people in boxes,but it seems the way things are done,and I am trying to find my place,or place of interest.
Thank you for your patience and help

It's obviously that...in addition to being revelation.

I am not sure now,do you believe the Bible is a perfect word of God?
I believe it is a collection of inspired writings,with spiritual message,but not perfect,and not inerrant.

Well, you who like myself are not a trained theologian or linguist understands all that, so it's not an insurmoutable problem at all, I'd conclude.

I find the problem with trained theologians,in the training,and the fact,they have certain goals and ideas,it is dificult to explain,but the fact they disagree betwen each other ,makes it questionable for me.

Conditional? Yes, it is conditional upon the person accepting Christ as his Savior if that is what you mean.

Thank you,this is also what most Christians believe,including liberal.

Oh, it's there all right, but this is not the place to go into a lengthy explanation.

No problem.

I don't agree to that at all. You said that we must know the non-literal meaning of the writings of the people of that age, so if days = epochs, there is nothing strange in that. That's all that I meant by "Theistic evolution." Perhaps you have a different understanding of the term.

I agree, I understand what you mean by theistic evolution,basicly you do not deny the science observations,just the cause is planed,designed,created by God,rather than a random chance.

Just trying to understand CC..and it is not as conservative as I though ,but rather it looks like a mixture.

I'd recommend doing it now, since this is not the place for a debate on salvation though faith in Christ or the reliability of the Bible, both of which are basic to this forum. I'm glad I could answer your questions, though.

I am not asking to argue ones point,just interested in thinking behind it.

I have noticed one of the rules here,is that CC are 100% pro life.
I thought it was mainly a catholic issue,so I am adding it now to my conservative christian type

 

[Sketcher]

Well, I have a likely explanation for that conservative behavior. They have likely had it up to the chin with liberal obstinacy and casting Scripture aside. Eventually, this makes them angrier as people. This is why I generally stay out of debate forums, BTW.

What makes you a conservative christian,and if you dislike liberal christianity,please explain why?

It's all about Sola Scriptura. Scripture alone as the infallible guide to faith. It keeps doctrine sound and provides something solid to stand on. Liberals have a habit of picking and choosing what they like, even from the same book, showing blatant disregard for the Lord.

What are your beliefs about salvation/unsaved,and why?

Jesus summed it up in John 3.

What are your beliefs about trinity,and why you believe it?

Jesus is very clearly honored as God in Scripture, both in the Old Testament and New. Therefore, we have God the Father and God the Son. The two have to be one if there is one God, and it's not a stretch to include the Holy Spirit in that (who is also God, according to both Testaments). Hence, we have a Triune God - One God, but there are three Persons to Him.

What do you believe about the origins/age of universe,
earth,life on earth,humans,and why?

God created it. See Genesis 1-2.

Would you be comfortable to discuss christianity in debate forums?

I don't really go out of my way to do that anymore. If people are seeking, I will happily jump in. If there is misinformation in a place I am already at, I seek to correct it. I don't believe in throwing pearls to pigs though, and there are plenty of pigs on the Internet.

 

[Q]

Well, I have a likely explanation for that conservative behavior. They have likely had it up to the chin with liberal obstinacy and casting Scripture aside. Eventually, this makes them angrier as people. This is why I generally stay out of debate forums, BTW.

I see.I used to believe hat Christians are supposed to be an example for others,and I believed,that the more conservative one is,the closer they will follow CHrist and His teachings .I find it the best way to be,quite dificult to achieve though.
CF has taught me to not expect Christians to behave any better ,tahn any other group.I came to believe that people chose beliefs,and stay true to their personality.
Now I don't have any expectations really,just get surprised now and then,sadly.

It's all about Sola Scriptura. Scripture alone as the infallible guide to faith. It keeps doctrine sound and provides something solid to stand on. Liberals have a habit of picking and choosing what they like, even from the same book, showing blatant disregard for the Lord.

The liberals I know dont pick and chose,they search and
try to learn,examining the claims,and questioning traditions,in order to get closer to God.
I am trying to understand the other way,getting close to God,by trust in other people,as authority,and trust
in the bible.
I find it not possible,so I am trying to find out,why and how people do it.

Jesus summed it up in John 3.

I was kind of hoping for your personal reasons,experience,for believing in this.Thank you for your answers,I think I understand.

Jesus is very clearly honored as God in Scripture, both in the Old Testament and New. Therefore, we have God the Father and God the Son. The two have to be one if there is one God, and it's not a stretch to include the Holy Spirit in that (who is also God, according to both Testaments). Hence, we have a Triune God - One God, but there are three Persons to Him.

I ask,becasue I don't see this clearly.
I understand you do not feel any need to question it,not sure how you come to this conclusion.

God created it. See Genesis 1-2.

People interpret it diferently,and I was interested in a conservative christian belief.

I don't really go out of my way to do that anymore. If people are seeking, I will happily jump in. If there is misinformation in a place I am already at, I seek to correct it. I don't believe in throwing pearls to pigs though, and there are plenty of pigs on the Internet.

That is one of the scriptures often used to belitle others,I don't like it,it is one of the things I find repulsive,using scriptures to offend others,just my personal dislike.
It is OK you don't feel like discussing things,no problem.

 

[Albion]

This is something I find interesting,a personal experience.I know people are often not comfortable to speak about it,so I will not ask again,but if you don''t mind,I would like to hear about God in your life.

To be clear, I don't consider the Bible to be a "personal experience." It's revelation intended for all mankind. BTW, it seems to me that a lot of what you are wondering about is covered in our wiki statement and perhaps it would help everyone if you took a look at that and then asked for clarifications, etc. based upon it. Just a thought and not intended to inhibit any inquiries.

 

[Voegelin]

. . . respectful of law and other people's rights, patriotic, and not given to expecting the rest of society to give us everything we'd like to have.

The latter is, I think, a defining attribute of conservative Christians. Rights come from God, not man, not the state. Problems should be addressed closest to the source and by the family, the church, the community, the local government and last of all by the Federal government, the EU or a similiar body. Catholics have their principle of subsidiarity; Protestants have their Federalism and state's rights. When conservative Christians lobby government, it is often to stop something being done, not to seek this program or that.

 

[Sketcher]

The liberals I know dont pick and chose,they search and
try to learn,examining the claims,and questioning traditions,in order to get closer to God.

Every liberal I have encountered has done this. Therefore, this is the experience I spoke out of. But since picking and choosing is so common, I would be highly surprised if some of these liberals if not all of them didn't pick and choose.

I am trying to understand the other way,getting close to God,by trust in other people,as authority,and trust
in the bible.
I find it not possible,so I am trying to find out,why and how people do it.

Well, I believe people are fallible, so I don't trust a pope or anyone else as an ultra-high authority. Scripture was canonized though, and as such is timeless. I view it as the Constitution of Christianity. In America, we have our Constitution, and it is the law of the land - no man or law is above it. This is a very strong belief that most Americans have (though they interpret it differently), and core to making our system of government work. I take a similar attitude towards Scripture, because we serve a God who does not change. If Jesus said something, the Lord isn't going to change His mind about it in 500 years, a thousand years, or ever.

I was kind of hoping for your personal reasons,experience,for believing in this.Thank you for your answers,I think I understand.

The book of John has some very life-giving truth in it, stuff I needed to hear. Stuff like He will always forgive you when you ask (Jn 6:37), being safe in His hands (Jn 10:28-29), the promise of abundant life (Jn 10:10). The devil was ravaging my life with his lies, and the truth did set me free (Jn 8:32). Now, John is also an intolerant book, but it's either reliable as God's word or it isn't. And if it isn't, then the life-giving stuff can't be trusted, since the source isn't solid. Therefore, it's all or nothing with the Book of John, as it is with any book of the Bible. This is why I accept all of it, even the stuff that isn't so politically correct - it's good and true anyway, despite what people think.

I ask,becasue I don't see this clearly.
I understand you do not feel any need to question it,not sure how you come to this conclusion.

Old Testament passages on Jesus' divinity:

Psalm 2

Daniel 7:13-14 - The one like a son of man can only be another Person of God, because only God is deserving of such praise. No Jew would give such lofty language to anyone but God, yet, this one like a son of man approaches the Ancient of Days. Jesus claimed to be this very being many times.

Ezekiel 34 - this is the kicker here. God is fed up with the priests and Levites, so HE HIMSELF will come and tend the flock of His people (v.11). He did come!

New Testament claims:

John 1:1-3 - This shows us just how close the Father and Son are. The Word was with God, but the Word also WAS God. Furthermore, the Word was essential in the creation of the universe. So you have here two that are yet one. How does one explain this? Two distinct Persons of the same God.

John 8:58 - The I AM here is a direct reference to Exodus 3:14 - He is claiming to be the same God as the one Moses saw in the burning bush.

John 10:28-33 - This is very plain. Jesus claimed to be one with the Father, and the Jews were ready to stone Him for it. He said it, and they confirmed it - He was claiming deity.

John 13:13 - He approved of being called Lord, which is significant.

When you put these together, particularly with the Hebrew Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4, Mark 12:29) it becomes clear that the proper explanation is not two gods, but one. And when you note the distinction between the Father and Son in the above passages, they both must be two Persons of the same God.

People interpret it diferently,and I was interested in a conservative christian belief.

My belief is rather literal. God literally created the world in six literal days. I'm not a YEC crusader, but that's the belief I am leaning towards.

That is one of the scriptures often used to belitle others,I don't like it,it is one of the things I find repulsive,using scriptures to offend others,just my personal dislike.
It is OK you don't feel like discussing things,no problem.

It's not really meant to offend others, it's really a piece of wisdom. There are some people who just aren't worth trying to persuade about these matters, because their hearts are not open to the truth. If their hearts were open, then there could be a productive conversation. Think of it this way, with two political parties that have opposite views. A hardline member of one party isn't going to go to the other party's convention and think that he or she could convince people there to change their beliefs and switch to being principled members of his or her party. That unfortunate person would be shouted out of the place or worse. Jesus is saying to recognize closed hearts and obstinate people, commanding us not to waste our time and energy on them. They won't be moved, but the "witness" will be worse off than when he or she started.

 

[LivingLifeHisWay]

Hey there....you mentioned in one of your posts..."How can we be sure that the Bible is correct"

Well..study the dead sea scrolls.

The Dead Sea Scrolls date from 250 BCE to 68 CE. Among them are some 230 biblical manuscripts representing nearly every book in the Hebrew Bible; more than 1000 years older than any previously known copies.

The scrolls contain the very words our Bible does today. God made sure it was kept pure. Don't you think God is BIG enough to do that? He made a tree, surely He could keep His Word pure.

 

[LivingLifeHisWay]

Also...a very popular way of thinking today is "Everyone translates the Bible differently" but there is only one way to read the Bible...God's way.

With every song or book we can take it and make it be anything we want it to be. But the only true meaning lies with the Author. The Author knows what he meant by everything written.

That's why reading the Bible in context, studying the meaning of words, researching the times when they were written is important. We need to correctly divide the Word of God and treat it with such care so we don't misinterpret what the Great Author intended to say.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Q,

"conservative" is a relative term. It is relative to the values of whatever society is at issue. Conservatism simply means that a person desires to conserve, or preserve the traditional values and ideas of a given society.
For example, conservatism in china would be vastly different than conservatism in America. Conservatism in Europe is a little different than in the US, but much closer because their societies have much more similar traditions.

Conservatism in terms of Christianity then, should be about conserving the traditions of the Christian faith, or the traditional understandings of the christian faith. In some cases this is accurate. However, most of the time, in the US, conservative christians have simply muddled their culture with their faith. Thus most of the time in the US when a person calls themselves a conservative christian, they are not really refering to conserving the traditional beliefs of Christianity, but rather the traditional values and beliefs of american society. In other words they have confused cultural conservatism, with christian conservatism.
This is relatively easy to do in the US because its true that there is alot of cross over between our traditional culture and Christianity.

True conservative Christianity can only be defined by adherence to scripture and the traditional teachings/understandings of the Christian Church.

Another common problem is that people who consider themselves conservative often consider "conservative" to be a moral term, or a value term and it isn't. The fact that something is 'conservative' has little to do with it being moral, or right, or true. It just means that it is traditional.
This confusion comes because people frequently believe that their traditions are true and moral.

Conservatism, by nature, almost always coincides with authoritarian and legalistic personality types. For this reason any conservative group or movement, wether christian or cultural will have plenty of these types of people.

Further, Christianity is ultimately about relationship with God which is something different than simply agreeing to a set of ideas and rules. Thus there are many conservatives who agree to the rules and the ideas, but may not necessarily have much experience with actually knowing God. I have been that way myself.

This is not to suggest that the "rules" and ideas aren't important because they are, God revealed them for a reason. However, they are not a point unto themselves. They are only a means.