questions

[healthygirl88]

i'm not reformed or calvinist but i did attend a calvinist highschool. i wanted to know why calvinists seem to hate all other denominations sooooo much? what r the calvinists views on other denominations?

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

i'm not reformed or calvinist but i did attend a calvinist highschool. i wanted to know why calvinists seem to hate all other denominations sooooo much? what r the calvinists views on other denominations?

Maybe you were around some bad Calvinsts or hyperCalvinists.

You are more than welcome to read all my posts. I am a solid Calvinist, but I've visited most every kind of Church -- Luthern, Episcopal, AofG, Charismatic, Roman Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, etc... . I disagree with them on points of Doctrine, but I do count them as Christians and Brethren. I was Baptised in the Roman Catholic Church and count that baptism as true.

I think you must have been around a bad group, there are some like that in every doctrinal group.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

 

[JimfromOhio]

i'm not reformed or calvinist but i did attend a calvinist highschool. i wanted to know why calvinists seem to hate all other denominations sooooo much? what r the calvinists views on other denominations?

When I first learned about Calvnist, I had a problem with an attitude of a person who was a Calvinist. Calvinism as a doctrine is NOT the problem. The problem is those who called themselves "Calvnists" who showed no love while debating the doctrine.

However, keep in mind, Calvinists are NOT the only one. Legalists are as well as arminianists and others. The MAIN point is this: We cannot criticize other denominations for spiritual defects unless we are modeling Christlike living. The Church is not them, it is us. A local church is what its individual members are, no better and no worse.

I truly believe those Calvinists who understand how to be a "Christian" are really very loving and fun to be around.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

i'm not reformed or calvinist but i did attend a calvinist highschool. i wanted to know why calvinists seem to hate all other denominations sooooo much? what r the calvinists views on other denominations?

If I might come to the defense of my Calvinist brothers in faith...

Some Calvinists do seem a little bitter about other denominations to me- mostly Methodist (Wesleyan Arminian) and Baptist (Anabaptist Arminian). But I think this is mostly a reaction to the fact that Calvinists hve been dragged through the mud as having a damnable and hateful theology. If I faced that kind of scorn I'd be bitter about it, too.

 

[JonF]

i'm not reformed or calvinist but i did attend a calvinist highschool. i wanted to know why calvinists seem to hate all other denominations sooooo much? what r the calvinists views on other denominations?

Disagreement isn’t hatred…

 

[hopperace]

i'm not reformed or calvinist but i did attend a calvinist highschool. i wanted to know why calvinists seem to hate all other denominations sooooo much? what r the calvinists views on other denominations?

Hi stargirl4ever88, and a belated welcome to Christian Forums. I don't wish to discount your genuine experiences with Calvinists, and I apologize that we often express ourselves in inappropriate ways or have doctrinal beliefs that many needlessly be associated with hate, or a stern God, or whatever.

Not all Calvinist churches or believers in Calvinistic doctrines are truly hate-filled. Many of us have an appreciation of Catholic, Charismatic, or Arminian denominations, etc., but certainly our teachings significantly contrast with theirs. One of the factors that tends to single out Calvinists (or most other strongly Reformed groups), is a certain clarity of Bible doctrine that lends itself to pride - in reasoning we've done the best job of working through the Scriptures in a consistent and cohesive manner. In other words, the systematic clarity of Calvinistic thinking lends itself to a consideration that we've got it all right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. We've been very apologetic in reasonably defending Bible teaching, and so we are perhaps naturally argumentative, by way of our theology.

In contrasting this with Charismatics, for example, there has often been a distinction made between itellectualism and emotionalism - with Charismatic denominations being unduly characterized as flighty, overly emotional, and illogical. Yet, in our championing of doctrinal and practical purity, we Calvinists have had a great tendency toward infighting and lack of unity among our own diverse membership. For what it's worth, many of us are of Celtic Scotch-Irish stock as well, where Calvinistic theology had a great stronghold and subsequent influence on American Calvinism. Some may take issue with ethnic stereotypes and profiling, but we Scotch-Irish are natural fighters, and probably would have made ourselves extinct if we had adopted a deep-felt and emotive Charismatic theology. (I don't know if you saw the animated film Over the Hedge, but I've thought that an Irish Charimatic would not be unsimmilar to giving Hammy (a hyperactive squirrel) a super-caffinated soda and watching the subsequent mayhem.)

I'll frankly admit I grew up in a Calvinistic church that reflected a very strong (which was really weakness) US/THEM philosophy and practice of faith. I'm still very strongly Calvinistic, even to the point of hyper-Calvinism (by some standards), and I agree that purity of Bible teaching is a salient matter worthy of defending, but peaceableness has become for me an equal pillar to purity. The truly challenging task is championing both, and trying to lovingly correct error (still believing Calvinism is the purist form of Biblical expression), wihout being seen as "intolerant" and "hateful" of other denominations.

It's very difficult to work through any betrayal from friends or pastoral leadership, but this is part and parcel to many Calvinists in ways similar to what Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons feel. We often view ourselves as misunderstood and even persecuted by others, and we don't tend to be the greatest diplomats or purveyors of political niceties. We'd too often just as soon punch you in the face, or hack you up with our Biblical claymore (sword) of precise theology, as listen to a bunch of glossolalia (speaking in tongues) and coddle you with friendly persuasion. It's a glaring fault that some of us are earnestly working on, (sort of like leaving the toilet seat down for our wives), but we don't take kindly to garbledygook and love wrestling too much to abandon it in favor of kniting.

Don't ask me how the Scots got stuck wearing skirts.

 

[healthygirl88]

to start with thank you to everyone who has commented. i still have my stance on what i believe and i'm still not extremely comfortable with visiting calvinist or christian reformed churches because how i've been treated.

Disagreement isn’t hatred…

in response to your quote. i said hatred not disagreeement. i was told by thousands of people including the highschool and christian reformed churches that my basically my views r wrong without ever being asked what i believe. they said what is your denomination when i respond with assembly of God i get the worst faces ever. i was also told on a daily basis if your not dutch your not much. (the school was a majority dutch christian reformed kids). my best friend's mom told her not to hang out with me because i wasn't christian reformed so there must be something wrong with me. now i'm not judging or at least trying really hard not to judge calvinism as a whole but i'm not talking about a disagreement here i'm talking about complete hatred and not from a couple people or families a couple thousand people.
once again thank you for your comments.

 

[Elderone]

to start with thank you to everyone who has commented. i still have my stance on what i believe and i'm still not extremely comfortable with visiting calvinist or christian reformed churches because how i've been treated.
in response to your quote. i said hatred not disagreeement. i was told by thousands of people including the highschool and christian reformed churches that my basically my views r wrong without ever being asked what i believe. they said what is your denomination when i respond with assembly of God i get the worst faces ever. i was also told on a daily basis if your not dutch your not much. (the school was a majority dutch christian reformed kids). my best friend's mom told her not to hang out with me because i wasn't christian reformed so there must be something wrong with me. now i'm not judging or at least trying really hard not to judge calvinism as a whole but i'm not talking about a disagreement here i'm talking about complete hatred and not from a couple people or families a couple thousand people.
once again thank you for your comments.

To say the least, you were in a very, very unfriendly environment. You will NOT find any of that here.

 

[Erinwilcox]

to start with thank you to everyone who has commented. i still have my stance on what i believe and i'm still not extremely comfortable with visiting calvinist or christian reformed churches because how i've been treated.
in response to your quote. i said hatred not disagreeement. i was told by thousands of people including the highschool and christian reformed churches that my basically my views r wrong without ever being asked what i believe. they said what is your denomination when i respond with assembly of God i get the worst faces ever. i was also told on a daily basis if your not dutch your not much. (the school was a majority dutch christian reformed kids). my best friend's mom told her not to hang out with me because i wasn't christian reformed so there must be something wrong with me. now i'm not judging or at least trying really hard not to judge calvinism as a whole but i'm not talking about a disagreement here i'm talking about complete hatred and not from a couple people or families a couple thousand people.
once again thank you for your comments.

Wow, it really sounds like you were in a bad environment. I understand how difficult it must be/will be for you to ever separate those people from your concept of Calvinism. You should have heard my pastor's ( a Reformed Baptist) sermon on cathlicity (notice the small c in catholic) a few months ago. I must say that despite my doctrinal agreements with some of the other denominations out there, I have a love for them. . .Christians are so scarce at school and at work that whenever I find one, I just love them to death! One of my very dear friends at work is Charismatic/Penecostal (or at least was, I believe) and though we have our doctrinal differences, there is one thing that links us together--our mutual love for Christ and we enjoy sweet fellowship in eachothers company.

 

[heymikey80]

to start with thank you to everyone who has commented. i still have my stance on what i believe and i'm still not extremely comfortable with visiting calvinist or christian reformed churches because how i've been treated.

Well, to start with from me, I also attended a Calvinist high school with dramatically different results. And the kids had much more to worry about from a secular philosophy enthusiast who -- while expressing some kinda belief -- didn't even attend a church.

The kids there knew I was wrong, and yet they supported and sustained me through the separation and divorce of my parents.

One of the things my mentor and youth pastor told me pointblank at one point was, "Yeah, you're wrong. So what? Isn't the first principle of Calvinism, Total Inability? Believing in Total Inability doesn't make you right. It makes you wrong. It makes everyone wrong."

in response to your quote. i said hatred not disagreeement. i was told by thousands of people including the highschool and christian reformed churches that my basically my views r wrong without ever being asked what i believe.

Yeah -- but they should've taken you to Starbucks after! =chuckle!= "Coffee -- isn't that the third sacrament of the Presbyterian church?"

they said what is your denomination when i respond with assembly of God i get the worst faces ever. i was also told on a daily basis if your not dutch your not much. (the school was a majority dutch christian reformed kids).

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to make light of this. I've been there. My family moved countless times and I encountered some really unpleasant kids back in the late Jurassic when I was in high school.

I honestly do feel for you. Stupidity appears among every belief. Yes, there were stupid and belligerent people in my high school. Fortunately the people who weren't, found me.

my best friend's mom told her not to hang out with me because i wasn't christian reformed so there must be something wrong with me.

Yes; I have walked away from such a group of people for a very different reason than theology. They weren't practicing what Christ preached. But frankly I know too many Calvinists who showed love -- while still being open about what they thought was wrong. I wouldn't identify these people who slammed into you with all Calvinists.

Doing such a thing would be prejudicial.

Here's the reason I would walk away from such people:

John answered, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not follow with us." 50But Jesus said to him, "Do not stop him, for the one who is not against you is for you." Lk 9:49-50

One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. Rom 14:2-4
​

Now me, I have a number of friends who are in Assembly of God churches. And let's get it straight, I probably hold to the same facts about this theology as your oppressive coeds do (ie, do they still require a spiritual gift be visible to consider people saved?). But you know, so what? There's no reason for an attitude. You're a son of God, a sister in Christ Jesus. This means nothing, for your faith shows you're saved, not your theology. Calvinism says so. So what's their stupidity? That they don't know their theology well enough to apply it.

If their theology doesn't get that right -- then they're not even Calvinists . And you can tell 'em Calvin told you so.

Here's what Calvin had to say -- and again, if they judge by more stringent rules, how can they call themselves Calvinist ...?

1 Corinthians 1:2: ... This is a passage that ought to be carefully observed, that we may not require that the Church, while in this world, should be free from every wrinkle and stain, or forthwith pronounce unworthy of such a title every society in which everything is not as we would wish it. For it is a dangerous temptation to think that there is no Church at all where perfect purity is not to be seen. For the man that is prepossessed with this notion, must necessarily in the end withdraw from all others, and look upon himself as the only saint in the world, or set up a peculiar sect in company with a few hypocrites. What ground, then, had Paul for recognizing a Church at Corinth? It was this: that he saw among them the doctrine of the gospel, baptism, the Lord’s Supper — tokens by which a Church ought to be judged of. For although some had begun to have doubts as to the resurrection, the error not having spread over the entire body, the name of the Church and its reality are not thereby affected. Some faults had crept in among them in the administration of the Supper, discipline and propriety of conduct had very much declined: despising the simplicity of the gospel, they had given themselves up to show and pomp; and in consequence of the ambition of their ministers, they were split into various parties. Notwithstanding of this, however, inasmuch as they retained fundamental doctrine: as the one God was adored among them, and was invoked in the name of Christ: as they placed their dependence for salvation upon Christ, and, had a ministry not altogether corrupted: there was, on these accounts, a Church still existing among them. Accordingly, wherever the worship of God is preserved uninfringed, and that fundamental doctrine, of which I have spoken, remains, we must without hesitation conclude that in that case a Church exists.
Calvin, Commentaries, 1 Corinthians 1:2

​

now i'm not judging or at least trying really hard not to judge calvinism as a whole but i'm not talking about a disagreement here i'm talking about complete hatred and not from a couple people or families a couple thousand people.
once again thank you for your comments.

I understand, and it's horrific if not downright stupid of them.

A friend of mine experienced something similar in an evangelical school. That -- and more -- really messed him up.

I understand the Dutch Reformed heritage church has been insular in the past; that's helped it in some respects. In others, clearly it's hurt many churches' outlook on the world. Similarly, English Reformed churches have had their problems with separatists, too. I think we've learned alot since then. We've already been stupid like this, generations ago.

 

[healthygirl88]

Now me, I have a number of friends who are in Assembly of God churches. And let's get it straight, I probably hold to the same facts about this theology as your oppressive coeds do (ie, do they still require a spiritual gift be visible to consider people saved?). But you know, so what? There's no reason for an attitude. You're a son of God, a sister in Christ Jesus. This means nothing, for your faith shows you're saved, not your theology. Calvinism says so. So what's their stupidity? That they don't know their theology well enough to apply it.

thanks for the posts i understand that not everyone is like this but in my area they are so i'm sorry i'm still a little touchy and guarded when it comes to calvinists now. as for Assembly of God churches i don't believe you need to speak in tongues to be saved, but i do believe in all the spiritual gifts and using them. my family is made up of quite a few denominations and i was taught not to look at the denomination if someone is a christian that's good enough for me especially because my neighborhood when i was younger was made up of mostly catholics and i never had a problem with that. maybe dutch christian reformed is totally different from you guys but i've heard the same stories from my parents friends and family and their personal experiences. i also read the book Jesus Land which is also about a woman who grew up christian reformed and her experiences. so i'll end with saying i know this isn't everyone i do have a couple friends who are christian reformed, but as a whole i believe the group of people i'm talking about are somewhat of a cult in terms of their beliefs towards who is good enough to be "one of them"

 

[JonF]

to start with thank you to everyone who has commented. i still have my stance on what i believe and i'm still not extremely comfortable with visiting calvinist or christian reformed churches because how i've been treated.
in response to your quote. i said hatred not disagreeement. i was told by thousands of people including the highschool and christian reformed churches that my basically my views r wrong without ever being asked what i believe. they said what is your denomination when i respond with assembly of God i get the worst faces ever. i was also told on a daily basis if your not dutch your not much. (the school was a majority dutch christian reformed kids). my best friend's mom told her not to hang out with me because i wasn't christian reformed so there must be something wrong with me. now i'm not judging or at least trying really hard not to judge calvinism as a whole but i'm not talking about a disagreement here i'm talking about complete hatred and not from a couple people or families a couple thousand people.
once again thank you for your comments.

That is very unfortunate. Not only is it rude and hurtful but unbiblical. I hope you can take our word for it, but that goes against what most Calvinist churches teach and not all Calvinist behave that way. Anywho, hope you stick around the reformed section here so you can see that most Calvinist are friendly loving people.