Questions on the Baptism on the Holy Spirit

[ninasanguina]

Hey im Nina and i am very confused. I have been searching the scriptures and praying that God would show me truth and direction. I have been searching for answers to my questions about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. What are your veiws on speaking in tongues? Being slain in the Spirit? Laying hands on? Casting out Demons?
I have grown up a christian and i am at a stage in my life that has made me find my own faith and branch away from my parents and churches ideas on christianity. Throughout my life i have gone to Baptist churches and to Bible churches and Pentacostal churchs and all i am left with are questions. I have seen many workings of the Holy Spirit in Pentacostal churches and have been told opinions from people on both sides of the issue.
If you know anything about these things please help! As well as searching for myself it is good to get advice from more experienced, older and wiser.

 

[fuegodedios]

Hey im Nina and i am very confused. I have been searching the scriptures and praying that God would show me truth and direction. I have been searching for answers to my questions about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. What are your veiws on speaking in tongues?

When one is saved, they are born of the Spirit. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is being filled with the Spirit. A good example from the scripture that clarifies this Acts 8 where Philip went to Samaria and preached the Word.

5Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
7For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
8And there was great joy in that city...

12But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given...

So in a nutshell, Philip preached Christ to them and they believed and were baptized, or in other words saved. But in verse 14 it says when they heard that happened they sent for Peter and John to lay hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit, because they had not been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet even though they were already saved. So we can see here that salvation and the baptism in the Holy Spirit are two different experiences. They are not the same thing. Again, one is being born of the Spirit and the other is being filled with the Spirit.

Tongues is a gift of the Spirit that is exclusive to being baptized in the Holy Spirit. In a nutshell, when we pray in tongues is it the Holy Spirit giving our spirit the ability to pray the mind of God apart from our own understanding. Our knowledge and understanding of God's specific will for our life is very limited without direct revelation of the Holy Spirit. Tongues allows us to pray the will of God without the Spirit actually having to reveal it all to our mind first. So when we pray in tongues, we are praying the mind, will and purposes of God apart from our own understanding. It is an invaluable gifting for the believer.

And yes, it is God's will for ALL his children to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues. And being baptized in the Holy Spirit will help you understand those other subjects you asked about more clearly.

 

[tturt]

Books have been written about these subjects. But this is a summary of a study on tongues that I did.

I Cor. 12:28 states there is a “… diversities of tongues…” which includes:
-Personal Edification: I Corinthians 14:4,5 (Strong’s edification includes “the act of building).” -Church Edification: gift of tongues and interpretation I Cor 12:10 There are many purposes but here are some -
-Builds up our faith and helps us love (Jude 1:20-21)
-Magnifies God: Acts 10:4
-Prayers to be Spirit-Led: I Cor 14:14
-Intercession: Rom 8:26
-Believers can speak to God in a language given by Him for Him I Cor 14:2

Who can receive? From the 4 Biblical groups of believers who spoke in tongues were those who wanted to receive. Scripture states that they all in attendance received in Acts 2:4 (men and women), Acts 10:44, and Acts 19:2-9. Except the group that had mockers of tongues, then all isn’t stated Acts 2:13 and v 41.

But Yahweh isn’t going to make us do anything. We have to be yielding to Him and cooperating with Him. It starts with salvation.

Here are some Biblical examples of people falling: 2Ch 5:14, Eze 3:23, Num 22:31, Rev 1:17, Eze 43:3, Eze 44:4 We can see that they fell in different directions.

There are numerous examples of demons being cast out. Then we're told to "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." Mat 10:8

There are numerous examples of the laying on of hands. Hands were laid on Paul, then he laid hands on others. Plus other Scriptures such as "They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark 16:18 But we don't let just anyone lay their hands on us in prayer either. Test their spirit first.

Do you have any questions in particular?

 

[lilmissmontana]

passing through ... thought I'd throw this out there ... be sure to read the rules before you post ...

from stickied rules above ...

In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

 

[Camaro]

You find the plan of salvation in Acts 2: 38. When people read that they say the Holy Ghost was for the apostles and not for us today. In the 39th vese, it plainly says it's for many generations to come. Peter tells the people that it is from the prophecy of Joel, also found in Acts chapter 2. Places to find baptism is Acts2:38-41, Acts 8:6-17,34-40 Acts 9:17-18, Acts 10 44-49, Acts 16: 22-34, Acts 19:1-6. Paul talks of his own baptism in Acts 22.
The Holy Ghost is mentioned in Acts 2: 1-4, and in most of the above scriptures. Now the bible tells us there is no other name where by we must be saved in Acts 4:10-12. There is no other way the bible says to be baptized. Alot of people refer to Matt. 28:19 claiming to be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. I'm sure you have heard what it really means, in that those are not singular names but titles. After all, You are a son, brother, cousin, friend, and so on. Those are just titles but not your name.

 

[tturt]

If I posted something I shouldn't have - just asks someone to delete my entire post because I won't be on the forums for several days. Thanks.

 

[stormdancer0]

No problem that I know of. Just a caution. Unfortunately, we Charismatics get attacked a lot because of our beliefs, and we are very careful about what questions we answer.

If you are sincerely curious, please, ask away. We welcome honest inquiry.

 

[marksman315]

Hey im Nina and i am very confused. I have been searching the scriptures and praying that God would show me truth and direction. I have been searching for answers to my questions about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. What are your veiws on speaking in tongues? Being slain in the Spirit? Laying hands on? Casting out Demons?
I have grown up a christian and i am at a stage in my life that has made me find my own faith and branch away from my parents and churches ideas on christianity. Throughout my life i have gone to Baptist churches and to Bible churches and Pentacostal churchs and all i am left with are questions. I have seen many workings of the Holy Spirit in Pentacostal churches and have been told opinions from people on both sides of the issue.
If you know anything about these things please help! As well as searching for myself it is good to get advice from more experienced, older and wiser.

Hi Nina,
While I might not be able to answer your question fully, I can tell you of my experience. I used to go Assembly of God churches, and now I have been a Baptist for a few years.

I have been slain in the Spirit (when I first asked Jesus to be my Saviour), and I have spoken in Tongues. These were very moving experiences. I held onto these experiences during my times of falling away from God as reminders that God does exist. However, my spiritual growth went absolutely nowhere.

Eventually, after being in the Christian and Missionary Alliance church for several years, I still had not grown. I was a very stagnant Christian. After having deep trouble in my personal life, and coming out of it through God's Grace alone, I started going to a Baptist church (a real one that does not preach the prosperity doctrine). I was encouraged to actually read my Bible, and I started to grow more mature as a Christian (my thoughts became less worldly, I started to be less selfish, my goals were changing).

I'll have to leave this for you to judge based on the fruits of my works. I had very few good fruits, and many, many bad ones for a long time eventhough I had been speaking in Tongues and slain in the Spirit. The fruit of my works did not change until I started seeking truth in the Bible instead of the high of the experience. It was an awesome high, and feeling of warmth and power, but it did not change me.

I hope this helps give you some insight from someone who has been on both sides of the issue.

 

[stormdancer0]

Hi Nina,
While I might not be able to answer your question fully, I can tell you of my experience. I used to go Assembly of God churches, and now I have been a Baptist for a few years.

I have been slain in the Spirit (when I first asked Jesus to be my Saviour), and I have spoken in Tongues. These were very moving experiences. I held onto these experiences during my times of falling away from God as reminders that God does exist. However, my spiritual growth went absolutely nowhere.

Eventually, after being in the Christian and Missionary Alliance church for several years, I still had not grown. I was a very stagnant Christian. After having deep trouble in my personal life, and coming out of it through God's Grace alone, I started going to a Baptist church (a real one that does not preach the prosperity doctrine). I was encouraged to actually read my Bible, and I started to grow more mature as a Christian (my thoughts became less worldly, I started to be less selfish, my goals were changing).

I'll have to leave this for you to judge based on the fruits of my works. I had very few good fruits, and many, many bad ones for a long time eventhough I had been speaking in Tongues and slain in the Spirit. The fruit of my works did not change until I started seeking truth in the Bible instead of the high of the experience. It was an awesome high, and feeling of warmth and power, but it did not change me.

I hope this helps give you some insight from someone who has been on both sides of the issue.

This is very true. Many people have wonderful experiences with God, but are not changed by them. Shame on your AoG church if they did not strongly encourage you to read your Bible.

The experiences are great - and a wonderful "jump start" into a new spiritual life, but they do nothing on their own if you do not take action and move into your faith. This includes reading the Bible, studying God's word, praying, and worshiping. God will change you - He WANTS to change you into one of His children in action as well as in spirit. But He won't force you to change.

Had this poster began reading the Bible and praying intensely, the gifts would have begun manifesting quickly. Unfortunately, they were not taught this in their old church. I am so glad they've found a church that IS helping them grow as a believer.

It doesn't matter if it's Baptist, AoG, Church of God, or what.

For a bigger boost of spiritual power, begin memorizing scripture. God's word, implanted in the brain, is extremely powerful in our walk with God.

 

[ninasanguina]

Thanks you everyone for sharing your veiws and concerns on this subject! I appreciate everyones long answers and in depth conversation.
One thing I cannot understand is how people are all "convicted" and all come up with different answers.... I know pastors of both conservative and charasmatic churches and love God passionately... but there are so many differences in their beliefs. Are they lieing when they say that God has shown them something or convicted them to believe one way?? i am very confused about this.

 

[SharonL]

I have been a Christian all my life - but not until about 20 years ago did I have a personal relationship with Jesus. I was a pew warming Christian, thinking I did everything I needed to do to get to Heaven and I probably would have gone to Heaven but there is so much more.

I did not kow anything about being filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. I met a new friend who had something I did not have, the joy in her faith was just not there for me. I started researching what the difference was.

I was at home alone and reading the book 'In the shadow of His Hand' about a pastor searching for the Holy Spirit - I just laid the book down and said 'God if this is of you - I want it' - well I experienced the presence of the HOly Spirit as never befor nor since - for 3 hours I was in the presence of the Holy Spirit - praying my new prayer language for 3 hours - life has never been the same.

What a beautiful experience and what power of God that people just throw away and trash - breaks my heart - praying in tongues carries power from God like you will never experience in any other worship.

There are 2 kinds of tongues - your prayer language which is the Holy Spirit praying through your spirit - the Bible says that we know not how to pray - very powerful. The other is given in a church or meetings, but this must have an interpreter or it is not from God. Powerful when it happens - you know the words are coming straight from the Throne.

This beautiful gift is there for the asking -

 

[marksman315]

Thanks you everyone for sharing your veiws and concerns on this subject! I appreciate everyones long answers and in depth conversation.
One thing I cannot understand is how people are all "convicted" and all come up with different answers.... I know pastors of both conservative and charasmatic churches and love God passionately... but there are so many differences in their beliefs. Are they lieing when they say that God has shown them something or convicted them to believe one way?? i am very confused about this.

Hi Nina,
Whether it be charismatic or conservative teaching, the conviction comes from the Holy Spirit opening our eyes to show us that we are all sinners, and that we have no way of being in a personal relationship with God without Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit shows us truth and understanding in many ways. In conservative churches you will generally be told that this showing of truth comes when we read the Bible and get those timely "ah-ha!" moments (I've definitely have had these). In charismatic churches you can get these truth's the same way, plus through direct means from the Holy Spirit.

God also answers prayers to show us the way He wishes us to go in life (other than the obvious ones where we are always to obey God first). He answers prayer with either a "Yes", "No", or "Not Yet". Sometimes these answers are very plain and easy to understand. I have had many prayers answered. However, even when your prayers are answered, the outcome will not always be what you expect (I've also experienced this).

I highly encourage you to pray for wisdom when dealing with these issues. Please read your Bible and ask questions whenever you have them. Pray and ask for God to have the Holy Spirit help you discern the truth. There are many false teachers around (no matter if they are conservative or charismatic in their basic doctrine). Always question them and arm yourself with knowledge.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"What are your veiws on speaking in tongues?"

In modern times, beginning at the end of the 19th century, it appears that God RE-INTRODUCED the concept of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit to the Visible church which, up to that point, and being only 400 or so years away from the beginning of the reformation was largely "Cessationist" in belief. The "Popular" concept was that ALL the "Spiritual gifts", and miracles belonged to the Apostolic age, and were NOT still available to Christians.

And then things changed, and the Pentecostal revival broke out in 1900, and several MAJOR Denominations resulted from that outpouring in the "teens", and the experience of "Tongues" was at the fore-front, among those who were "Baptized in the Holy Spirit".

And then it "Happened again" - except NOW in the "High Churches, and Liberals, and Catholics in 1966. and AGAIN Tongues were in the forefront, and the "Normative experience for those who were Baptized in the Spirit.

So although I DON'T teach the doctrine of "initial evidence", I DO agree that in 2011, IF one is "Baptized in the Holy Spirit", they can EXPECT to be empowered to Speak in a tongue - which will simply "show up in their minds", and "Flow" effortlessly when they speak it.

"Being slain in the Spirit?"

There's a REAL "slaying in the Spirit" where the Lord simply "Knocks you out", and there's the "Popular Slaying ritual" that you see on TV all the time, and in churches where you simply allow yourself to be pushed backward, and lie on the floor for a while.

The "Slaying ritual", is where the "Slayer" will overbalance the "Slayee" who falls backward stiff legged into the arms of the "Catcher" who will then arrange the "Slayee" for most efficient use of platform area, and the "Coverer" will apply blankets for modesty's sake. It's a cooperative religious "ritual" unrelated to the actual phenomenon of "being Slain in the Spirit" wherein folks just "Drop in place" like sacks of potatoes. 95% of what you're likely to see is nothing but "Ritual".

"Laying hands on?"

Laying hands on folks when you pray for 'em is a Biblical practice. It's not "Magic". It's really a point of Human Contact when you pray for another. Occasionally there will be a "Spiritual impartation" as a result of the practice.

"Casting out Demons?"

This is generally called the "Ministry of deliverance from Demonic oppression". "Demon possession" is NOT a Biblical concept - the word is "Demonization" - to be troubled by, or oppressed by demonic entities - sometimes to the degree that you will require Ministry from others to become free. Christians are as likely to be "Demonized" as lost folks, and it's a ministry that the church as a whole IS NOT "comfortable with", and knows LITTLE about.

 

[stormdancer0]

In modern times, beginning at the end of the 19th century, it appears that God RE-INTRODUCED the concept of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit to the Visible church which, up to that point, and being only 400 or so years away from the beginning of the reformation was largely "Cessationist" in belief. The "Popular" concept was that ALL the "Spiritual gifts", and miracles belonged to the Apostolic age, and were NOT still available to Christians.

Actually, Baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues continued throughout history, in monasteries and secluded sects. The Catholic church at one point declared that any healings, miracles or such outside the clergy was to be considered witchcraft, but many devoted men and women continued the Spiritual gifts during the entire time between Apostolic times and now.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Thanks you everyone for sharing your veiws and concerns on this subject! I appreciate everyones long answers and in depth conversation.
One thing I cannot understand is how people are all "convicted" and all come up with different answers.... I know pastors of both conservative and charasmatic churches and love God passionately... but there are so many differences in their beliefs. Are they lieing when they say that God has shown them something or convicted them to believe one way?? i am very confused about this.

The problem with the Christian faith is that if you put 10 Christians in a room, you will get 10 different opinions about the way the Holy Spirit moves. This is deliberate, because God's purpose is that we fellowship with Him, and put our total dependence on Christ and not on other people. If you depend on the opinions of people (including me), then you will remain confused until the penny drops and you come to realise that God wants you to fellowship with and depend on Him.

You are a unique person, and God will show you His will for you in His own way. What He wants you to do is to get before Him and ask Him the questions you need answers for. Then do all you can to find those answers by studying the New Testament and reading good books written by men and women of God who are or have been successful in winning many to Christ.

There are central doctrines that a Christian needs to believe in order to be genuinely converted. With your experience in the Christian faith, I guess you know that and have given your heart to Christ.

I think it is in the area of the Holy Spirit and how He works in people that is confusing to you. I can try and give you what I think, but I am just another human being with one of the 10 or even hundreds of opinions that are flying around.

But God has promised to lead you as you seek Him with all your heart. See first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added to you. Strengthen the areas of your Christian life that you know are true for you, and God will lead you further in His time. Trust the Lord to lead you.

The first step is to come to a place of stability and peace at the point where you are right now. If going forward into the things of the Spirit and Charismatic issues is making you feel confused. Stop and don't go there at present until you come back to a place of love, peace and joy where you are in your faith right now. God will not rebuke or condemn you for stopping and resting if you don't have a clear road map for the future.

There will be passionate and enthusiastic people who will try to get you baptised in the Spirit as if they can do it themselves. Don't let people get around you and lay hands on you until you know exactly what to expect, and what you will receive. Love does not force its own way. Love will not force anything on you if you are not ready. Your confusion signals that you are not ready yet to go forward in the things of the Spirit. You need to know for sure that being baptised in the Spirit and using the gifts are God's will for you. It is dangerous to go into things you do not yet understand.

God is very patient. He will wait for you. If you lack wisdom, go to God and ask Him for it. He will give it to you liberally and will not think any less of you for acknowledging that you are confused and you need answers from Him.

I do have my views, based on what the Lord has taught me about the things of the Spirit, but I am not going to offer them to you unless you want them. PM me if you would like me to give you a link to my article on the Baptism in the Spirit. I don't want to do it publicly, because there are some who tend to debate rather than minister to others, and I don't want you even more confused by that.

 

[boldlion]

Nina, seek for the Holy Spirit Luke 11:1-13