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That was my answer to a poster's specific question. I have other reasons. Please believe me that I have problems with the Bible. I'm not the only one who does, so that shouldn't surprise you.
The problem with your problems with the bible is that they are objecting to something the bible isn't supposed to be in first place - what you have rejected is a manufactured idea of what the bible "ought to be", not what God created it to be, nor what Christianity has historically understood it to be. Not manufactured by you, I hasten to add, but one manufactured as a reaction against modernism that ironically accepts modernist terms. You've accepted a view of the bible invented by some 19th & 20th century Christians, and then rejected that invention.
Dear MrDave, you have strong faith and conviction that I once had, too. At this time I probably wish I had the same as you do. Having strong faith makes some things in your life somewhat easier. I mean, you know who you are, what's your purpose in life, where you're going.
Comparing bad quality of paper (objective problem outside my control) to inconsistencies and errors in the text is stretching way too much, IMO. Low-quality paper may prevent me to read some of the letters/words and thus, partially or totally miss the meaning (especially if it's a Hebrew text with no vowels or Greek with no spaces between the words) of the text that cannot be read. In case of inconsistencies/errors, I do succeed to obtain the meaning of the words, and trrough that, to see the message that the text's human authors are trying to convey to me. However, after I have understood the meaning (paper was good enough), I have a conflict believing what I understood (subjective problem in my mind). So, you're talking about understanding problem, I'm talking about faith problem. Those two are not the same.
Nice explanation, as always. It is a way around, yes, put in nice words. However, it doesn't work with me. Why invent a very complicated explanation where you have to accept a complicated idea in order to resolve an obvious problem(inconsistency/error), when you can simply say, okay, the claims about these writings being god-inspired are wrong? It's like when you see 2+2-1+1=3, you can say 1) It was written by a maths professor and his meaning for arithmetical signs were different from the commonly accepted once. You can suppose different possible interpretations of the meaning of the signs, for example, to say that '+' actually means 'multiply'. Therefore, it's a perfectly correct equasion and we believe it was written by the professor. Or you can say, 2) It was written by a young child who made a mistake in calculation and needs to keep learning his arithmetics. You suggest me 1 whereas I prefer 2 as much more obvious and logical explanation.
Well, I won't take your word about 19-20th centuries... I don't care who made what of what. I read the Bible, I analyze what I read according to my knowledge and understanding, I hear other people's interpretations, I see how they apply it to life, I look at my own experience with interpreting it and putting to practice and based on all that, make my conclusions. It's not as simple as, 'making it smth it's not and then rejecting it as such'. This time it's you over-simplifying things.
I hope so. Most importantly for me, I've found here what I needed - people who would understand me and listen to me, share their views. I didn't say it in my first post, maybe I should have, but Christianity was almost all I had in my life. It's not anymore. It feels like starting my life over. It's not easy... I expect to loose some of my Christian friends when I profess my unbelief to them... The people here at CF are nice so they don't talk about satan deceiving me, but I'm sure I'm going to hear that a lot later, especially from behind my back...
I only want that people understand what really happened. But I need to understand it myself, first. I know. But I've seen enough of those efforts. They are in no comparison to the teaching of the Bible. Oftentimes it seems to me that they don't really believe in what they say the believe in. It's my opinion.
Do you believe in a literal hell?
We're humans, we're sinful, we're weak, we're only flesh, we're nothing compared to God and so on... What about the indwelling holy Spirit, about renewal of the mind? What about the new creature, about child of God? What about the 'saints', about the selected, the priests, the saved? What about all that other stuff the Bible and the Christians are talking about? Why is it that the Christians just live like everybody else (or worse), conform to "this secular world", are more hypocritical, self-righteous and judging than non-Christians, do very little or nothing about saving others AND at the same time claim they're different? Claim that they hold THE ABSOLUTE truth??? I expect at least some proof of that. If there's none, I doubt all of their claims...
Okay, I've heard such doctrine before. When I was a Christian, most of the time I believed similarly. I have a big problem with it now. Why then Jesus Christ came? It seems, if such interpretation is true, that he came only to save those who will hear about him, for the others his salvation work has no effect whatsoever because they will be judged NOT according to their faith/rejection of Jesus Christ. In other words, then Jesus' gospel has very little, if any, value to most people who ever lived (will live) and did not (will not) hear the gospel. That is, his death/resurrection is just for a very few.
Thank you, really.
There are things that I can't reconcile in my mind also.
I'm afraid it is evident from what you have said throughout this thread that you are much more influenced by the factors I outlined above than you apparently realise. The bible is not a book written specificially for a modernist mindset, and all your arguments (and most of the counter arguments) treat it as though it was.
Faith is believing things that you can't see. I agree, faith is perhaps something spiritual, and not mental. However, if I believe in something, I can't close up my mind at the same time...
The Bible itself contains claims as to its origin, quality and purpose. It's impossible to accept the Bible and ignore them.
I don't know the answer. Perhaps, for the same reasons that all other religious books exist. That is, because somebody made up the ideas, recorded them, edited, developed, preserved--all over many centuries, generation after generation. People need some ideology, they can't live without one. Their mind requires explanation of things, inquires answers to their many questions. Religious books make attempts at just that. They're trying to open up a vail covering the main misteries--where this world came from, where people came from, why we live, how we should live and what's going to happen in the afterlife. So, it becomes a teaching on history, morality, spirituality.
True.
