I was wondering the ELCA's view on the Rapture doctrine and the Armageddon. I'm still rather new to the ELCA. Please don't use really big words cuz I'm too lazy to look them up. 
(I have a bad cold) haha.
(I have a bad cold) haha.-
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questions for seasoned ELCA Lutherans
- Thread starter HappyChicken
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D.W.Washburn
The Artist Formerly Known as RegularGuy
I don't think that you will find too many people with teaching authority in the ELCA who take the book of Revelation as a detailed prediction of future events. I don't think that we have an "official" interpretation of Rev. 16:14-16, but most would probably take it as a symbolic reference to the final destruction of God's enemies.
I hope you're feeling better!
I hope you're feeling better!
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Yes, after much rest last night and this morning (Nyquil), I feel much better. I was too "droggy" to attend church this morning and that bummed me out.
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These particular symbols (the rapture and the tribulation) do not have much Biblical warrant. Obvioulsy, they show up in the Bible. They should not be understood literally. Nor should a whole theology be made out of them. They don't deserve that kind of treatment. Few of us in the ELCA would put too much stock in these notions as referring to something that literally will happen in some kind of future.
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So, if not literal, then how am i suppose to understand it? I'm not trying to start a debate...just trying to understand. I have always understood these two doctrines as truth, and now that i go to an ELCA church, this is what does not settle well with me.
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D.W.Washburn
The Artist Formerly Known as RegularGuy
The doctrine of the rapture is built out of a verse here and verse there from various parts of the Bible without regard to their original contexts. All of those verses admit of other interpretations.
Barbara Rossing has written an excellent book titled "The Rapture Exposed" which goes into the history of the doctrine and the interpretation of the Scriptures which are used to support it. She has a good insight about Matthew 24:40 and its parallel at Luke 21:34. In the context of Roman occupied first century Palestine, the one who is "left behind" is more likely to be considered blessed than the one who is "taken" by the Roman soldiers.
Jesus never taught that his followers would be spared from suffering or tribulation. In fact, he taught that his disciples should expect persecutions, and should be prepared to take up their own crosses.
The two biblical apocalypses (Daniel and Revelation) use highly symbolic language. They are probably best understood as addressing the lives and situations of their original readers. They were meant to shore up the courage and faithfulness of persecuted believers, not to give detailed predictions of future events.
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IowaLutheran
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Two other excellent books from the ELCA perspective are "Come Lord Jesus: A study of Revelation" by Mark Braaten and "Revelation and the End of All Things" by Craig Koester.
http://www.amazon.com/Come-Lord-Jesus-Study-Revelation/dp/081463172X
http://www.amazon.com/Revelation-En...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237404187&sr=1-1
They thoroughly analyze each passage in Revelation and convincingly establish that Revelation is full of metaphorical language pertaining to the situation of Christians at the time it was written.
http://www.amazon.com/Come-Lord-Jesus-Study-Revelation/dp/081463172X
http://www.amazon.com/Revelation-En...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237404187&sr=1-1
They thoroughly analyze each passage in Revelation and convincingly establish that Revelation is full of metaphorical language pertaining to the situation of Christians at the time it was written.
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Not to spoil the party, but ... here is one Lutheran who takes the Revelation literally.
Once one understands what scene is happening on earth and what in heaven, the book starts making sense.
Concerning rapture, Lutherans definitely teach rapture, the post-trib model. The rapture will be at the end of the tribulation at the 2nd coming.
I do not know of even ONE verse (and I really know this topic quiet well) that teaches pre-tribulational rapture.
Concerning the literal period of 1000 years of bliss on Earth (the lamb and the wolf lying together), Lutherans do not officially believe in it literally.
But I do.
I thought I was some type of a heretical Lutheran.
But Marv comforted me at one time when he said that in the 4th century there was a definite movement that the Millenium is literal and is in the future.
Scripturally speaking, the Bible talks about a period of significant peace that will be on this earth and such a peace was never yet seen in the past.
I believe that.
Thanks,
Ed
Once one understands what scene is happening on earth and what in heaven, the book starts making sense.
Concerning rapture, Lutherans definitely teach rapture, the post-trib model. The rapture will be at the end of the tribulation at the 2nd coming.
I do not know of even ONE verse (and I really know this topic quiet well) that teaches pre-tribulational rapture.
Concerning the literal period of 1000 years of bliss on Earth (the lamb and the wolf lying together), Lutherans do not officially believe in it literally.
But I do.
I thought I was some type of a heretical Lutheran.
But Marv comforted me at one time when he said that in the 4th century there was a definite movement that the Millenium is literal and is in the future.
Scripturally speaking, the Bible talks about a period of significant peace that will be on this earth and such a peace was never yet seen in the past.
I believe that.
Thanks,
Ed
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0
Not to spoil the party, but ... here is one Lutheran who takes the Revelation literally.
Once one understands what scene is happening on earth and what in heaven, the book starts making sense.
Concerning rapture, Lutherans definitely teach rapture, the post-trib model. The rapture will be at the end of the tribulation at the 2nd coming.
I do not know of even ONE verse (and I really know this topic quiet well) that teaches pre-tribulational rapture.
Concerning the literal period of 1000 years of bliss on Earth (the lamb and the wolf lying together), Lutherans do not officially believe in it literally.
But I do.
I thought I was some type of a heretical Lutheran.
But Marv comforted me at one time when he said that in the 4th century there was a definite movement that the Millenium is literal and is in the future.
Scripturally speaking, the Bible talks about a period of significant peace that will be on this earth and such a peace was never yet seen in the past.
I believe that.
Thanks,
Ed
whew! i feel better now!!! Thanks!
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Revelation is a very interesting book. As Lutherans, we read it much like we read anyother book of the Bible. What is the key to understanding the Bible? It is only through the work of Chrsit crucified that we understand the Scriptures. So we would interpret Revelation more with a Gospel focus than most.
The Armagheddon, trib "spooky tooth" approach may be alright for Hal Lindsey and others. It creates a sensual bombardment of all possibilities. But as a Book closing the Book of Books written to disclose the Savior of mankind, this approach is at its best, simply lacking any Gospel message. At its worst, it fosters a "believe it if you want to" approach to the whole Bible. Revelation was written to bolster the faith od Christians going through tremendous times of persecution in the days of John's writings and therefore serves to bolster our faith as well. The historical context should not be swapped to make it "current headlines" for today.
I would suggest reading all sides on this, pre-mill, atribs, Lutherans, and others. There are some decent "comparison" companions aswell. But there is one rule you should insist on - they keep a Gospel focus! One theme that may surprise you is the theme of the worship of the Lamb that starts in chap 4 and proceeds to the end. It really is, in the end, all about HIM.
I hope this helps. Have a happy journey. Scripture interprets Scripture.
Cos
The Armagheddon, trib "spooky tooth" approach may be alright for Hal Lindsey and others. It creates a sensual bombardment of all possibilities. But as a Book closing the Book of Books written to disclose the Savior of mankind, this approach is at its best, simply lacking any Gospel message. At its worst, it fosters a "believe it if you want to" approach to the whole Bible. Revelation was written to bolster the faith od Christians going through tremendous times of persecution in the days of John's writings and therefore serves to bolster our faith as well. The historical context should not be swapped to make it "current headlines" for today.
I would suggest reading all sides on this, pre-mill, atribs, Lutherans, and others. There are some decent "comparison" companions aswell. But there is one rule you should insist on - they keep a Gospel focus! One theme that may surprise you is the theme of the worship of the Lamb that starts in chap 4 and proceeds to the end. It really is, in the end, all about HIM.
I hope this helps. Have a happy journey. Scripture interprets Scripture.
Cos
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